R G III play reminds me a bit of Steve Young

Finshady Wrote:
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> How does Robert Griffin get thrown into every
> thread that is started on this site. I don't like
> him as a player, and I hope like hell we don't try
> to trade up and draft him. No matter how many
> times you guys mention him, I am not changing my
> mind. He can go and ruin another franchise like
> the Redskins or Browns with his unorthodox style
> of play.


That might be the single best reason I've seen for selling the farm to go get RG3.

I'm sure if I searched for it I could find a very similar comment from you about Cam Newton before...or even after last years draft.

well we signed him for the league minimum I think could be worth the gamble if he can control his temper in the hot Miami summers.

Hah, well for the sake of helping you illustrate your point Chyren (and I can tell it irks you that he really DID block you ) I'll reproduce your post below. This is for you Truth...



Finshady Wrote:
--------------------------------------------------
> How does Robert Griffin get thrown into every
> thread that is started on this site. I don't
> like him as a player, and I hope like hell we don't
> try to trade up and draft him. No matter how many
> times you guys mention him, I am not changing
> my mind. He can go and ruin another franchise like
> the Redskins or Browns with his unorthodox
> style of play. I want a pure pocket passer like well
> preferably a young Peyton Manning. That's not
> happening so I guess I'll settle for the older
> more experienced version instead.


ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The following is re-posted by me just to remind
> you.


> Re: Mike Vick.
> Posted by: Finshady
> Date: January 10, 2011 08:22AM


> Mark my words Newton will be the biggest bust in
> the draft if he comes out. Yes you can
> athletically beat college teams with the spread
> ala Pat White, but the pros are a whole other ball
> game. Newton will fail and be out of the league
> like fat ass Jamarcus Russell just my opinion of
> course. I have studied Newton, and he reminds me
> of a much slimmer Jamarcus Russell. Where is
> Russell now? The Team that takes Newton will
> regret it for many years to come.

And for the record, at the time, I completely agreed with every word Finshady said about Newton. I thought this kid was Jamarcus Russell 2.0. I thought he was lazy, self-absorbed, couldn't read defenses for $hit, and was over-hyped because of what he was able to do with his legs. I didn't think the guy would ever be a smart, efficient, accurate, pocket passer.

I heard some of the things he said leading up to the draft, when interviewed by some analyst from NFL network he was responding to some criticisms levied against him by other analysts and contrasts of his skills versus some of the greats like Elway and he was like "no disrespect to those guys, but..." and then he went on to talk about how amazing his skill set is and how those guys basically aren't him. My mouth dropped to the floor. I thought he was the cockiest SOB I'd ever heard in my entire life. Then he goes and has a monster year after having a preseason where he looked exactly the way I expected him to, like total crap. I wouldn't have bet he would have been as great as he was this season in a million years!

Hey I am not running away from what I said about Scam only time will tell if he is legit or a flash in the pan. You guys know what I think about that cocky undeserving bastard, but hey what do I know really.

shady,

Neither Cam nor RG3 are cocky. They are not arragont at all.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

Aqua&Orange Wrote:
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> shady,
>
> Neither Cam nor RG3 are cocky. They are not
> arragont at all.


Cocky and arrogant aren't really bad traits in a QB. It helps then to succeed in many cases.

Favre was certainly cocky and arrogant.

So was Marino.

Tom Brady telling Robert Kraft he was the best pick in Pats history during that first training camp wasn't very humble.

Sure, there's a fine line between conceited or self absorbed and cocky/arrogant but if you are a QB and you don't project a strong belief in yourself who else is going to believe in you?

But those guys are confident. Not cocky. Atleast not in the way that finshady is trying to spin them.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

Aqua&Orange Wrote:
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> But those guys are confident. Not cocky. Atleast
> not in the way that finshady is trying to spin
> them.


I suppose it's like most things in life. Too much of anything is usually a bad idea.

Cocky with little to show for it too me is a bad thing. Marino was cocky, but he was also all freaking world big difference.

Cam Newton has 2 college titles, a heisman, and a ROY award. RG3 took a dump of a college program to national prominence and won a heisman.

Pretty sure those count as "something to show".

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

Well we all ways disagree because I see them as pampered prima donna athletes, and you see them as idols. So until they win consistantly in the pro's my opinion will stand, and the more you bring up Scam and the heisman stealer the more resentment I have for them as players. One last point are you saying that Andrew Luck would not have changed the fortunes of Baylor around as well. Because he took a pretty white Stanford team that is slow for college, and had them competing for the national championship until the final weeks of the last 2 seasons. So Luck to me accomplished more than the flukey heisman stealer if truth be told.

Aqua&Orange Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> shady,
>
> Neither Cam nor RG3 are cocky. They are not
> arragont at all.


Not too sure about Cam, But RGIII sounds like the perfect all American Kid. Smart as heck too.

I agree and disagree with you Panteraize. Newton is definitely cocky and arrogant. That is evident in his statements that you posted. The part where is I disagree is where you think this is a bad thing. He needed that swagger and complete belief in his abilities because everyone was doubting him. Almost nobody had confidence that Newton could be a top NFL QB.

I highly doubt that Newton has that record setting rookie season without his confidence and swagger. And he went on to back it up.

His comments were over the top but keep in mind that, at that point, he was still trying to sell himself to teams around the league.

I think Newton was humbled a bit by the losing this season, his struggles in pre season, and the whooping put on him at the Pro Bowl. But for someone with his confidence, I doubt those things did anything but motivate him even more.

Personally, I want a QB with that cocky attitude as long as he backs it up with performance, being a good teammate, and working hard in the off season. Newton has done those things so I see no problem with it.

I do understand how the comments, made before Newton had even taken an NFL snap, can rub people the wrong way.

Are you saying the read, and react drop back passer will be replaced by a more athletic AKA mostly run 1st QB's in the future well your dead wrong. The QB as I said before is paid to stay in the pockect read what coverage the defense is in or switches to before the ball is snapped then make the proper read. It's called smart's the great QB's have it, and can direct their players where to go to exploit their mismatches behind the center. You will never ever replace smart QB's with rocket arms with more athletic do it on the fly ones if you want this league to stay popular. The NBA got so bad that they had to start importing talent from Europe because they knew the fundamentals of regular basketball, and not that street crap most kids grow up trying to play now.

Finshady, are you a grumpy old man? Because that's how you come across.

The QB position is evolving and more atheltic QBs that can still read defenses, possess great arms, and direct offenses will be coming into the league. These players will still possess the abilities of Brady, Manning, Marino, etc but they will also be athletic and able to move the chains with their feet. Aaron Rodgers is an example, so is Andrew Luck. These guys can stay in the pocket and when things break down or no one is open they have ability to scramble and create more time or run for yards. Cam Newton does the exact same thing. Newton does not run all the time. He reads the defense and runs when no one is open or the protection breaks down.

No one is saying the league will become full of Micheal Vick version 1.0, but the league will see more Newton, Rodgers, RGIII, Vick 2.0, and Luck type players.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/18/2012 03:06PM by dolphin1423.

Yeah so, but they still have to be able to stay in the pocket and throw on the damn run accurately. All this athletic Qb bullshit is just that hell Marino used to buy time with his feet scramble, and still make pin point throws and he ran and all day 40 yard dash. Their is a diifernce between athletic, and new age and changing the way the postion is played. Scam, Griffin or Dog killer have not change nor will ever change how the postion is played. They still line up under center, and the still have to win games. I don't understand how they"re going to revolutionize the postion when an old school QB like Eli led his team to the championship this year. Being athletic at QB is a hindrence to me not a plus if you can't read a freaking defense. Tony Romo is athletic how many titles have the Cowpokes won lately? Tavaris Jackson any body want him? Kurt Warner was old an unathletic, but damn he could throw the ball. My point don't lable the damn position because you simply cannot. It's not new age or new ERA. It's will be played the same way a 100 years from now with big smart strong armed men under center. Anything else well then it's not football.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/19/2012 03:30PM by Finshady.

Finshady, I now pass from me to you my previous crown and title of "Grumpy Ole Man."

Finshady, I think we agree on a few points.

1. Being able to read a defense and make accurate throws is still the most important attribute in a QB. Any QB that can do this will have a chance to be a successful NFL QB

2. There will always be a place for QB's that aren't necessarily athletic but have great pocket awareness and possess the abilities I mentioned in my first point.

The point I am making is that having an athletic QB that can move outside the pocket is a positive thing so long as they still have abilities that I mentioned in my first point. QB's like Rodgers, Luck, RGIII, Vick 2.0, and Newton possess the ability to read defenses, make accurate throws from the pocket and on the run, and they have the ability to move the chains with their legs if nothing else is available.

I am saying that given the choice I want the guy that has all the classic QB attributes (command of offense, team leader, great arm strength and accuracy, good pocket awareness) plus has the ability to run and pick up positive yards if the situation calls for it. Why wouldn't you want this extra dimension? It gives you another weapon and advantage on offense and this is why more athletic QB's will become more popular in the NFL.

Because other than Aaron Rogers, and maybe Andrew Luck, Alex Smith and very few others that can do this did it make their teams better or win more games no. Tom Brady, and I hate the bastard is slow, and unathletic, but damn how does he lead his team on offense behind an outstanding offensive line. He also has great skill position people on the outside. Give me that with Manning, the older one and my team is beating your Michael Vick led team every freaking week. Because too me it comes down to passing accuracy, and the great ones have it, and well you know the rest.

Exactly Chyren.

Finshady, of course right now Brady and Manning are better than Vick, Newton, Luck, and RGIII. The last three haven't been in the league ten years and have yet to reach their potential. Vick developed late and his early bad habits still come around now and again, which is one of his problems. Brady and Manning are all time greats and are a tough comparison for anyone.