Everyone talks about what we Need but I want to clear some things up that we dont need

WR: We are set at the WR position with our top 3 guys, Marshall, Hartline and Bess (These guys are just as good if not better than the tandem of Nicks, Manningham and Cruz. They just dont have the right QB to get them the Ball.

LB: I think we are Ok here with Dansby, Misi, and Wake. Should be a force in the 4-3

DT: We should be good here also with Tony Mcdaniel, hopefully he can get some more playing time and your typical 3-4 DE's would play DT in a 4-3, like Starks. Should be really good inside.

CB: Vontae Davis and Sean Smith are a problem. They can get the job done. Vontae can cover anyone in the league. However we do need someone in the Nickel. Nolan Carroll just sucks. We don't need to use a 1st or 2nd rd pick for that position though.

Tackle and Center: We should be fine there with Long and Pouncey. Hopefully move Carey back to RT. If that doesnt workout then i'd say yeah Kalil could plug in at Tackle if you leave Carey at Guard. Either way we do need a guards and depth.

SS: Yeremiah Bell is a premiere Safety. He is getting up there in age though and we do need depth but again, you don't need to use a top draft pick for that position.

So where does that leave us:
QUARTERBACK. TIGHT END. GUARD. FREE SAFETY. RUNNING BACK. IN THAT ORDER.(I dont know how we are going to use Charles Clay. If he's going to be a FB or TE or just hybrid. But we have to use him. If he's not going to be a blocking FB, We need one of those for sure. Lex Hilliard is not a FB. He shouldve been a TB. Better than Thomas in my opinion. Reggie Bush is still not going to be a power runner but he will be a good change of pace back and is going to be great as far as a receiver. We could get Trent Richardson.) FULLBACK IS going to be a huge acquisition.

Kfresh01 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Everyone talks about what we Need but I want to
> clear some things up that we dont need

RE: IMHO opinion you are wrong about a couple of things.
>
> WR: We are set at the WR position with our top 3
> guys, Marshall, Hartline and Bess (These guys are
> just as good if not better than the tandem of
> Nicks, Manningham and Cruz. They just dont have
> the right QB to get them the Ball.

RE: We do need a WR. I like Hartline and would keep him as a #4 option but we need to upgrade him. We need a WR that is big, fast and a homerun threat to compliment Marshall and Bess in the slot. We need a guy that has great hands and is 6'2"+, 215 lbs+, and runs a 4.4 or better 40.
>
> LB: I think we are Ok here with Dansby, Misi, and
> Wake. Should be a force in the 4-3

RE: I agree but we need to add a guy thats a real playmaker to the mix...Misi so far has been a bit of a disapointment.
>
> DT: We should be good here also with Tony
> Mcdaniel, hopefully he can get some more playing
> time and your typical 3-4 DE's would play DT in a
> 4-3, like Starks. Should be really good inside.
>
> CB: Vontae Davis and Sean Smith are a problem.
> They can get the job done. Vontae can cover anyone
> in the league. However we do need someone in the
> Nickel. Nolan Carroll just sucks. We don't need to
> use a 1st or 2nd rd pick for that position
> though.

RE: I think we are set at CB for one more season...Saftey is the much bigger concern.
>
> Tackle and Center: We should be fine there with
> Long and Pouncey. Hopefully move Carey back to RT.
> If that doesnt workout then i'd say yeah Kalil
> could plug in at Tackle if you leave Carey at
> Guard. Either way we do need a guards and depth.

RE: Carey is a good guy but he may not be with the team so we need to get a replacement and Columbo just sucks.
>
> SS: Yeremiah Bell is a premiere Safety. He is
> getting up there in age though and we do need
> depth but again, you don't need to use a top draft
> pick for that position.

RE: I disagree...we need a dominate playmaker and that usually means a higher draft ppick.
>
> So where does that leave us:
> QUARTERBACK. TIGHT END. GUARD. FREE SAFETY.
> RUNNING BACK. IN THAT ORDER.(I dont know how we
> are going to use Charles Clay. If he's going to be
> a FB or TE or just hybrid. But we have to use him.
> If he's not going to be a blocking FB, We need one
> of those for sure. Lex Hilliard is not a FB. He
> shouldve been a TB. Better than Thomas in my
> opinion. Reggie Bush is still not going to be a
> power runner but he will be a good change of pace
> back and is going to be great as far as a
> receiver. We could get Trent Richardson.) FULLBACK
> IS going to be a huge acquisition.

RE: RB right now is a non issue...we don't need one. Now if someone falls into our lap I'm for taking one but right now it's not a concern.

Wake won't play OLB in a 4-3.

We need at least one OLB for that scheme.

We also need another pass rushing end opposite wake.

Also, Vernon careys days as rt are over. Leave him at guard if we a even resign him. Draft a rt.

Needs:
1 qb
2 rt
3 pass rusher
4 TE
5 fs
6 rb

You guys both made good points. Wake should play DE in a 4-3. Free Safety is the biggest problem on defense. It will be interesting to see how free agency plays out to determine which direction we go in the draft

If we go to a 4-3, then MLB needs to be our #2 need (behind Q. As far as I know, we don't have anyone on our roster who's played MLB before. It's the single most important position in a 4-3.

montequi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If we go to a 4-3, then MLB needs to be our #2
> need (behind Q. As far as I know, we don't have
> anyone on our roster who's played MLB before.
> It's the single most important position in a 4-3.


I'm going to respectfully disagree with both those points monti.

First off we have nothing but middle lb's on our roster I'd give Burnett, misi and even dansby a shot at that position before I draft another guy.

Secondly, I think we need the cover type olb's far more than a mlb if we go with a 4-3. We don't have ANY on the roster right now.

And as far as the 4-3 goes I think MLB is the 3rd most important position behind dt and de.

Remember when ZT was terrorizing offenses? He was much better when he had Tim bowens and Daryl Gardner inside with outside rushers like JT and ogunleye. Once we lost the dominant inside play Zach had to deal with blockers and as a consequence made tackles further down field.

If we truly are going to a 4-3...then we need another pass rushing de BADLY. We should be ok inside with Starks and odrick.

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Kfresh01 Wrote:
>
> >
> > WR: We are set at the WR position with our top
> 3
> > guys, Marshall, Hartline and Bess (These guys
> are
> > just as good if not better than the tandem of
> > Nicks, Manningham and Cruz. They just dont have
> > the right QB to get them the Ball.
> >
>
> you are kidding, right?


About which part?

The gross exaggeration of out talent level or the idea that 3 wr's are a "tandem" ???

You're way off on this Truth. The MLB is the QB of the 4-3 defense. Do you think the LT and C are more important than the QB on offense? No way! Also, Dansby played OLB in a 4-3. So did Burnett. No one on our team has played MLB. NO ONE!!

We have a number of easily definable core needs IMO:

#1 RT and added depth on the OL inside. I prefer a dominant G added to the mix as a top priority.

#2 DE that can impact the game on a consistent basis. I prefer a pure pass-rusher type who happens to make random plays on his way to the QB.

#3 MLB tackling machine that makes plays based on read/reaction and stuffs the run consistently.

#4 S that can handle the proliferation of TE’s running down the middle and knock the brains out of WR’s who are stupid enough to venture into the secondary…

#5 QB development and/or added talent acquisition to develop and continuously build towards upgrading the position.

#6 TE who can get deep in a hurry and use superior height/reach to snag passes at will.

#7 WR development (I think we have some legit talent stashed) and the emergence of Hartline as a legit #2 (if he can’t make the grade sell him off for scraps and bank on development AND another drafted prospect in R3-R5.

The above easily defines an entire draft and off-season, yet there are additional “holes” to fill including 4-3 OLB, depth at CB, and OL depth (which you can never have too much).

For sure, keep amping team speed and bring in dudes who are, first and foremost, super productive in college (like a Zack Thomas) as opposed to fitting some hypothetical “position standard” yet can’t do shit on the field. When ALL THINGS are equal “bigger” may be better, but purely BIGGER is not always better…

BNF. And project BIG is certified dead at last.

that's why I think there's a good chance we take the BC MLB in the first round

Man. MLB in R1... The dude better be a team onto himself...

I think DE and OT are better R1 investments, but whoever is the MOST dominant football player capable of impacting game outcomes is 100% welcome.

I used to watch college football like a maven and know ALL the studs, but no more. I have to spend too much time doing cardio and preparing my vegan food...

I have canary disease and a heart attack about a year ago - so I can't get as amped as I used to - but she still tells me I'm a dog...

We are fine at MLB. If you can play Linebacker, you can play line backer. I don't care if its inside or out. If Dansby can play Inside in a 3-4 then he can play inside in a 4-3. We get caught up too much in positions and resumes and experience. At the end of the day its just football. We need to focus on what we need right now, to play on week 1 instead of worrying about down the road projects.

Also. Watch our WR's play. Don't look at stats or any other teams stats. Without an Elite QB its unfair. Look at the plays our guys make. The block, run good routes, make great catches. If you watch them play then you would not be disagreeing with me

montequi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You're way off on this Truth. The MLB is the QB
> of the 4-3 defense. Do you think the LT and C are
> more important than the QB on offense? No way!
> Also, Dansby played OLB in a 4-3. So did Burnett.
> No one on our team has played MLB. NO ONE!!


Too each his own.

But if I have to choose between a great front 4 and an average MLB. and an average front four with a great MLB ...
I'll take the great front four every day and twice on Sunday's...especially in this day and age.

It doesn't matter who your MLB is if he has to deal with a guard or center on every running play he's not going to be making many plays in the backfield or at the line of scrimmage.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/09/2012 05:50AM by THE Truth.

There is always room to improve......but we have areas that need it more then others. #1 is QB. #2 is Oline #3 is Middle Linbacker if we are going to a different defense.

What are the odds of finding the next zach thomas in the 5th or 6th rounds?

I think finding a great LB in the later rounds is easier than finding players in the 1st or 2nd at the skill positions like qb, rb, wr etc. Just an example not saying we need wr or rb...just an example.

The general buzz around the league seems to be a bit perplexed by our announced plans to go 4-3, simply because if ain’t broke don’t fix it. But I’m thinking we’re going more “hybrid” in an attempt to get more DL on the field and maximize our depth in that area. No matter what system we run it’s critical to knock the QB down in today’s NFL so DE and/or OLB is a need (to compliment Wake).

I don’t see “MLB” as a pure position in the hybrid but we could still use a monster on the inside – but R1 is too rich for my blood. The odds are we won’t find another Zack (mainly because no one in Dolphinland today has the eye for talent that JJ did) but we should be able to add a sold player in the middle rounds.

I still feel OL (regretfully) is the #1 priority, and after watching highlights from last year, Moore is very efficient in 3 step drops (i.e., west coast “get the ball out quick”) so stopping initial DL penetration will be very important in Philbin’s system.

Most likely be using 3 wide and maybe 4, so you better have some blockers on the ends and be solid up the middle. Keep in mind, more than ANY other factor, the consistent protection Lady gets in NE is what allows him to look good.

Doesn’t matter if its Moore, Flynn, Henne or whoever, outstanding pass-pro will go a long way to winning games. And our OL gave-up a ton of sacks and was inconsistent at best in protection…That has to be at the top of the list. Run and gun baby!

BNF.

Kfresh01 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Everyone talks about what we Need but I want to
> clear some things up that we dont need
>
> WR: We are set at the WR position with our top 3
> guys, Marshall, Hartline and Bess (These guys are
> just as good if not better than the tandem of
> Nicks, Manningham and Cruz. They just dont have
> the right QB to get them the Ball.

Our 3 guys are not close to the Giants' 3 guys. The Giants have speed. Every one of the Giants' 3 guys is faster than any of our top 3. Victor Cruz averaged 19 yards per catch, had over 1500 yards, and scored 9 TD, all out of the slot. And our lack of speed does not fit well with our new west coast offense. Speed and quickness is more important than size for WR in that system.

>
> LB: I think we are Ok here with Dansby, Misi, and
> Wake. Should be a force in the 4-3

Wake will not be a LB in a 4-3, he will be a DE. Misi has yet to establish himself as a full time player, and has never played LB in a 4-3.

>
> DT: We should be good here also with Tony
> Mcdaniel, hopefully he can get some more playing
> time and your typical 3-4 DE's would play DT in a
> 4-3, like Starks. Should be really good inside.

With a cap number over $4M, McDaniel is one of the players most likely to be cut this offseason.

>
> CB: Vontae Davis and Sean Smith are a problem.
> They can get the job done. Vontae can cover anyone
> in the league. However we do need someone in the
> Nickel. Nolan Carroll just sucks. We don't need to
> use a 1st or 2nd rd pick for that position
> though.

Both Davis and Smith are free agents at the end of 2012, and Smith had a terrible season in 2011. Although, Ireland hinted that the coaches didn't use him correctly. A high draft pick at CB is a possibility.

>
> Tackle and Center: We should be fine there with
> Long and Pouncey. Hopefully move Carey back to RT.
> If that doesnt workout then i'd say yeah Kalil
> could plug in at Tackle if you leave Carey at
> Guard. Either way we do need a guards and depth.

Carey is a free agent.

>
> SS: Yeremiah Bell is a premiere Safety. He is
> getting up there in age though and we do need
> depth but again, you don't need to use a top draft
> pick for that position.

Bell is not a premier safety any more, although he is an excellent run defender. However, in the 4-3, the SS has more coverage responsibility, so his run stopping skills become less important. And with cap number over $6M, he will be cut unless he restructures his contract.

The MLB calls the defensive sets. The MLB also covers RBs or TEs out of the backfield. He may even blitz from time to time. While it's true that the front 4 is the first line of defense against the run, they're outnumbered by the 5 O-Linemen. That means the LBs are often left to rush the passer or stop the run. It's not that tough to neutralize the front 4 of a 4-3 with a decent O-Line, but keeping track of a great MLB is much more difficult.

BigNastyFish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have canary disease and a heart attack about a
> year ago - so I can't get as amped as I used to -
> but she still tells me I'm a dog...


Canary disease is very serious, perhaps the most serious of all bird diseases.

Kfresh01 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Everyone talks about what we Need but I want to
> clear some things up that we dont need
>
> WR: We are set at the WR position with our top 3
> guys, Marshall, Hartline and Bess (These guys are
> just as good if not better than the tandem of
> Nicks, Manningham and Cruz. They just dont have
> the right QB to get them the Ball.
>
> LB: I think we are Ok here with Dansby, Misi, and
> Wake. Should be a force in the 4-3
>
> DT: We should be good here also with Tony
> Mcdaniel, hopefully he can get some more playing
> time and your typical 3-4 DE's would play DT in a
> 4-3, like Starks. Should be really good inside.
>
> CB: Vontae Davis and Sean Smith are a problem.
> They can get the job done. Vontae can cover anyone
> in the league. However we do need someone in the
> Nickel. Nolan Carroll just sucks. We don't need to
> use a 1st or 2nd rd pick for that position
> though.
>
> Tackle and Center: We should be fine there with
> Long and Pouncey. Hopefully move Carey back to RT.
> If that doesnt workout then i'd say yeah Kalil
> could plug in at Tackle if you leave Carey at
> Guard. Either way we do need a guards and depth.
>
> SS: Yeremiah Bell is a premiere Safety. He is
> getting up there in age though and we do need
> depth but again, you don't need to use a top draft
> pick for that position.
>
> So where does that leave us:
> QUARTERBACK. TIGHT END. GUARD. FREE SAFETY.
> RUNNING BACK. IN THAT ORDER.(I dont know how we
> are going to use Charles Clay. If he's going to be
> a FB or TE or just hybrid. But we have to use him.
> If he's not going to be a blocking FB, We need one
> of those for sure. Lex Hilliard is not a FB. He
> shouldve been a TB. Better than Thomas in my
> opinion. Reggie Bush is still not going to be a
> power runner but he will be a good change of pace
> back and is going to be great as far as a
> receiver. We could get Trent Richardson.) FULLBACK
> IS going to be a huge acquisition.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

WR - I don't necessarily agree that we are set at WR. Miami needs that speed guy to get down the field and open things up underneath for everyone else. If one is not available, keep working Gates until he knows the position and can get the job done. However, saying that, I did see quite often this past season, that Gates beat the coverage, but our QBs just couldn't get it to him.

LB - Just read on line today that Misi may have a problem getting a position. Wake needs another speed rusher on the other side to help him, and Misi is not that guy. So, if they stay with the 3-4, and Miami can't get that guy, then more than likely Misi will fill that role and hopefully can do a better job of getting pressure on the QB. If Miami switches to a 4-3, then he could be on the outs, unless, again, Miami can't find that guy.

DT - Soliai is probably gone, so that has to be filled. Starks, although he played well there a couple years ago, is not a true NT. If Miami switches to a 4-3, then I think Miami will be OK with who they presently have on the roster.

CB - If one of the top 2 CBs in the draft is sitting there when Miami picks in the first round, I can see them grabbing him. Davis could be a Pro Bowler, but Smith is just serviceable. I was hoping to see a lot more from him, but it just didn't happen. I agree, however, that the slot needs to be taken care of.

T & C - Yeah, the left side is fine (including G). The right side will have to be completely redone. Colombo is definitely gone, and there is a strong possibility that Carey won't be resigned. Both G and T need to be fixed.

SS - Agree with ya, here.

As far as the Offensive backfield, I don't think Philbin used a FB in GB, did he? If that's the case, he won't in Miami either. Trent Richardson is an intriguing prospect, but Miami is OK with RB, and besides, Miami won't use that high of a pick for a RB. Bush and Thomas are good to go.

Kfresh01 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We are fine at MLB. If you can play Linebacker,
> you can play line backer. I don't care if its
> inside or out. If Dansby can play Inside in a 3-4
> then he can play inside in a 4-3. We get caught up
> too much in positions and resumes and experience.
> At the end of the day its just football.

That's one of the most ridiculous statements I've ever seen on this board.

I'm like 95% sure we're NOT going straight-up 4-3, tho we will maybe play that front 65.875% of the time or more.

Keep in mind the league is a passing league (I know, like DUH) and very few top contending teams are power running programs. And of course to beat the cheats you need to mess up the Lady's hair, so the 4DL is for pass rush more than anything else - IMO.

That said, a "traditional" 4-3 MLB is not an absolute necessity for us, tho we could certainly use someone on the inside whose sole purpose is knock shit down from T to T.

To beat the cheats you need (a) PASS RUSH and (b) speed across the field to cover their prissy 5 wide flag footie formations. Once we start beating the Billygoat in that manner he'll revert to more beef upfront and reformat his O for running the ball. Once that happens we'll need a legit MLB to knock shit down.

Disclaimer #1: all prognostications are subject to revision based on the unforeseen eventualities that tend to occur such as the draft, global warming and the pending 2012 apocalypse.

Disclaimer #2: the 2012 apocalypse may prove to be a ruse planted by the ancestors of Billygoat and the evil empire that sponsored the dark ages.

My opinion. Of course.

BNF.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/10/2012 07:02PM by BigNastyFish.

Need

Pass Rusher
OL
WR( that can get separation)
TE(Allen, Fleener, Charles)
Safety
QB

Honestly, in regards to this upcoming draft and subsequent offseason, we should focus on all the other holes we need to fill, the ones previously mentioned by everyone (OL and pass rusher first and foremost) instead of QB. Everyone needs to accept the fact that we are just not in the position we need to be, to be able to get that elite franchise QB we need.

Luck is taken, RG3 is out of reach (save for maybe a ridiculous overpayment that would be needed given the demand and general price of moving up to that pick to begin with) and he has a lot more question marks than I would want in a 1st round, top 5 pick, elite college QB. Flynn is another question mark far from a sure thing, whose price may also likely outweigh the possible reward. Brees is definitely staying in NO.

No, our hopes and chances of landing a young elite franchise QB this year are not good. They're just not. As much as we need that guy, we may be better served filling our other areas of need, sticking with Moore for another year, and waiting til next season to put some kind of massive package together to trade up to grab one of next year's elite signal callers. God willing it's Barkley.


*I forgot to mention Manning in that list of QB's that don't seem feasible in terms of us getting and/or them working out. But I guess you can say Manning is the wild card of that group, though he's obviously another huge question mark. He's actually one of the more feasible options that we might have the best shot at and most interest in. Of course everything with him revolves around the injury.

Regardless, this just may not be our year for landing a QB. And I'd certainly rather wait for the right guy than settle.

Whoa! Whoa! Panteraize, to THE Truth, that means that you fevrently believe that MATT MOORE IS THE MAN!!!!!!

I hear you. I know you are saying you are dissatisfied with Moore but we just not might be in a position to do anything about it but if THE Truth can accuse people who only want to draft QB IN THE SIXTH ROUND of being satisfied with Matt Moore and wanting to stick with him, then LOGICALLY, he would have to put you in that category as well because you are indicating that it might not be a wise strategy to try to get one at all if it is, as it seems to be, "not in the cards."

So Panteraize, to THE Truth, all your post means is that you are totally satisfied with Matt Moore.

I agree with the above: Everyone needs to accept the fact that we are just not in the position we need to be, to be able to get that elite franchise QB we need.

It’s really too bad Henne got hurt because he really had the losing thing going on and would have led us to the #3 pick or better IMO. That jackass Moore played too good and won us a number of meaningless games. In retrospect it was really stupid to put Moore in when Ireland had to know we where better off losing. Talk about bad management…

And then they fire Baby T as soon as he gets the losing thing going again – I mean wholly crap we could have lost out with Baby T sinking the ship! Again, that was obviously bad management…



BNF.

Ha! Ha! He certainly wasn't thinking like Indianapolis and that is for sure.

BigNastyFish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I agree with the above: Everyone needs to accept
> the fact that we are just not in the position we
> need to be, to be able to get that elite franchise
> QB we need.
>


I think you are almost always in a position to get a "franchise" QB. The question is...are you willing to pay the price?

Sometimes, depending on where you draft...or how available a free agent, a player on another team, or a pick might be... that price will vary. You may even have to overpay because of draft slot or divisional rivalry or to out bid someone else for a FA...but it all inevitably comes down to one thing:

...are you willing to pay the price?