ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> THE Truth Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Dude. Read this thread again.
> >
> > Reppa, dolphin, and hooligan2 have ALL said
> they
> > like Moore better than the other options or
> they'd
> > rather wait til next year to draft a qb...
> Which
> > is the same thing.
>
> TT it's not the same thing because they ARE NOT
> SAYING THEY ARE SATISFIED WITH MOORE!!!!!! They
> are expressing dissatisfaction with him because
> they are saying that realistically THEY TOO HAVE
> TO WAIT UNTIL NEXT YEAR TO REPLACE HIM!!!!
>
> And REPPA EVEN SAID THAT HE GUESSES HE WOULD GO
> WITH MANNING!
>
> Reading is fundamental.


I'll give you reppa. Even if he contradicts the notion of taking manning by "default" with the start of his next paragraph where he says "I'd stay put..."

But hooligan2 said this:

""None of the above"
I would much prefer to see what Moore can do behind a really stout offensive line. Draft a project QB after the first round."

and dolphin agreed with him when he said: " I agree with you. Stay with Moore and get someone in later rounds. IF there is anyone worth taking."

Both of which clearly refute the point you are so vehemently trying to defend when you said: "I don't think ANYBODY has said that we should just go into next season with Matt Moore alone. I think everybody has said that we bring in either Flynn, Peyton, or RGIII, or Tannehill"

As I respect all of your opinions please respect mine. If you have the chance to get Peyton Manning, you better stop EVERYTHING else you are doing and go out and get a proven guy. I heard a report on Mike and Mike this morning going over the Eli/Roththelsbuger/Phillip rivers era of quarterbacks and they name a slew of other qb’s and the statistic was that only 50% of qb's drafted in the first round turn out to NOT be a bust let alone become a great qb like Peyton Manning. If the Colts went from a playoff contender to THE WORST team in the NFL without Peyton, just imagine what he could do with the best receiver in the league (Brandon Marshall for those of you who couldn’t figure out) and also what kind of player he would make Reggie Bush out to be. Not to mention all the other players Hartline, Fasano, that he would also make look like superstars.

If Peyton Manning comes to the Dolphins not only will I think the 1st time in a really long time we may win a Super Bowl but they could even contend for an undefeated season- If he is healthy. Which brings me to my next point, that if he is willing to get paid off of games started and other incentive based pay- then there is absolutely ZERO RISK!

I say get Peyton and also pick up Flynn to mentor under Rodgers and now Manning and we are also set up for years to come once Peyton finally retires or is incapable of playing anymore.

This is exactly what Miami has to do if they REALLY are serious about finally being a winning franchise and this opportunity is only here now. DONT let it pass us by again like Drew Brees. These opportunity only comes along about every 10 years or so and these situations and players change the shape of franchise for years to come. And when they are not made scar the franchise for even longer.

come on man. flynn isn't go to sign somewhere to be a backup to a hall of famer---he's in the position now. we're not going to sign flynn to a huge deal and then manning to another. getting both flynn and manning is a ludicrous idea. that's why it's one or the other in this poll. sure it would be great to have manning, flynn, AND RG3 but this isn't la la land.

berk, he's a new guy. Soften it up. I agree we won't get Flynn to come where Manning is but soften it up.

ChyrenB Wrote:
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> berk, he's a new guy. Soften it up. I agree we
> won't get Flynn to come where Manning is but
> soften it up.


OMG...thats classic...

Pot...meet kettle

ChyrenB Wrote:
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> Ha! Ha! Maybe YOU think that I was even saying
> drop as well. Ha, ha, ha. YOU think I was
> saying "Don't have anybody on the roster except
> Moore."
>
> No, what I was saying was that there was NOBODY on
> this board expressing such satisfaction with Moore
> that they thought we did NOT NEED TO UPGRADE THE
> POSITION.


You keep spinning like that CB and you are going to hurt yourself.

Nobody but perhaps you, and even then only for the sake of trying to prove a point you missed long ago, consider a late round qb an upgrade on Moore.

This thread asked what you wanted to do at qb and it gave three options: manning, Flynn, and rg3.

Three posters clearly said words to the effect of "stay put" or "I'd rather go with Moore and see what he can do with more talent."

That's not spin. It's not an effort to claim that because they also wanted to bring in a late round developmental qb that that is some how proof they want an upgrade over Moore for this season.

It's just THE Truth.

You can bend it and twist it all you like but it doesn't change the fact the clearly several posters on this thread alone want to forgo the upgrades at qb offered at the start of this thread and stick with Matt moore for at least this coming season.

THAT is what A&O and I were talking about.

At least reppa wanted to stay put because he thinks there are better qb's in next years draft. I get that.

The other guys wanted to go with Moore over the upgrades offered in the poll AND the wanted to draft a qb late who, if we are lucky, will develop into another Matt moore over the next few years.

Now THAT is truly scary.

CB

The osition u are "upgrading" with a late round flyer on aQB is your BACKUP QB... Not your starter. If you are taking a guy to start you are taking him in the first or early 2nd round.

Brady is proof of this. When the pats drafted him it was for DEPTH at QB, not as a replacement for Bledsoe. Same reason they took hoyer and mallett.

But whatever. You have your deluded position on this thread. Nobody's going to change you mind and I have no desire to argue in circles with you today.

Drafting a back up for depth just isn't the same thing as trying to upgrade a position. Yes, if you are luck it can work out that way.

But if we bring in one of the upgrades berk started this thread with its with the intention that they start.

If we draft a qb in the 6th round its with the hope he can make the team as a backup.

Those aren't even remotely the same thing, except of course if you are clinging to an extremely feeble argument that you cannot let go of.

Your WHOLE argument is shown to be wrong by your statement that if we do any of the three options, Moore won't start.

Are you serious? You think if we draft RGIII, he will start the first game?

You're crazy! He'll sit on the bench like Andrew Luck would if Peyton were healthy and stayed with Indy.

Yes, if Peyton came here, then Moore would be relegated to back up.

But IF FLYNN came here, he'd HAVE TO BEAT MOORE OUT.

You are smart guy, TT.

But you let your pride force you into ridiculous positions and as a lawyer I make my living off of forcing people into ridiculous positions.

ChyrenB Wrote:
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> Your WHOLE argument is shown to be wrong by your
> statement that if we do any of the three options,
> Moore won't start.
>
> Are you serious? You think if we draft RGIII, he
> will start the first game?
>
> You're crazy! He'll sit on the bench like Andrew
> Luck would if Peyton were healthy and stayed with
> Indy.
>
> Yes, if Peyton came here, then Moore would be
> relegated to back up.
>
> But IF FLYNN came here, he'd HAVE TO BEAT MOORE
> OUT.
>
> You are smart guy, TT.
>
> But you let your pride force you into ridiculous
> positions and as a lawyer I make my living off of
> forcing people into ridiculous positions.



You are absolutely right that Moore could start in September if we brought in RG3.

That doesn't change the fact that Griffin will have been brought in to replace Moore which should be clear by the price paid to trade up to get him.

Nor does it change the fact that drafting a qb late in the drat isn't even remotely close to attempting to upgrade your starting qb.

Which is what this whole thread was about.

But I'm done. I'll let the poll decide who's position on this makes more sense. Neither of us is convincing the other that their position in this absurd argument is right.

Yeah, I failed again to convince you.

It really doesn't take much to get you two going on any subject.
I can't speak for the others but I clearly stated (at least to me) to draft a QB after the first round, not in the late rounds.
Whether or not it will be Flynn will be entirely on Philbin.
Whether or not Manning would even be a serious option depends on alot of big "IFs" and whether or not he would even consider a team that may be in a major rebuild mode with a very suspect o-line. Alot of posters here have fallen in love with the Manning legacy of several years ago. Personally, I think he is done except for the ego. Two seasons ago recall, he went through a three consecutive game stretch with 13 ints. and barely made the play-offs. The slide had begun.
RG3 will be too expensive in draft picks, especially if we are rebuilding and with limited cap space.
By default, we may be sticking with Moore and looking for a QB down the road.

Hear him, TT. Hooligan is denying that he's in the category. You conceded Reppa. Want to give up and back out on Dolphin too?

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hear him, TT. Hooligan is denying that he's in
> the category. You conceded Reppa. Want to give
> up and back out on Dolphin too?


Project qb cb. He clearly wasn't drafting a guy compete with Moore when he said "project qb" now was he?

If he wants to debate the notion of selecting a project qb in the 2nd or 3rd round I'll be happy to explain the folly of tat idea.

But that doesn't help your argument since he clearly wasn't wasting whatever pick he wants to use on an upgrade he was looking for a "project".

I would certainly hope that any QB in training camp, whether a project, FA, or veteran, would be given a fair shot to impress the coaches. Moore doesn't have anything locked up with a new coaching staff and only a vague idea of what system they intend to run.
I consider Moore a solid 10 win QB with the team that we finished the season with. With a better o-line and better catching from the WRs and maybe a stud TE, he could possibly win 11 or 12. Some here think that he hit his ceiling in Carolina but I don't see anything that supports that claim. "Trust me on this" doesn't get it A&O.

My position on the QB “situation” is clear and precise:

#1 I think Moore deserves the opportunity evolve and grow his game (I think the kid has legit NFL chops and wouldn’t be a bit shocked if he EXCELLED under Philbin guidance/system

#2 I think we need to start drafting QB’s and to continuously do so until we absolutely find the long-term solution at starter and back-up. Bottom line, we need to upgrade the position and develop talent

#3 if we’re in a position (for example in R1) to take a top tier QB prospect then we need to make that choice

#4 in NO WAY am I in favor of selling the farm for ANY of the supposed “amazing can’t miss future HOF QB’s in the draft. Those kind of moves are historical LOSERS and the evidence is overwhelming.

#5 if we can bring in FA talent like Flynn without a huge cap fall-out I’m all in because Philbin will be (a) betting his career on the decision and (b) has a huge database on the same

Since Manning will probably settle for a heavy incentive contract, we should take him. No money up front and the guy would work his tail off to get back to a Super Bowl. If he makes it..it would be the sports story of the year.

Since the Dolphins wouldn't have any money up front, then improve the OL thru free agency and draft, (i.e. 2nd and 3rd rounds).

Sit back in the cat bird seat and see if Trent Richardson falls to us in the 1st round. Then you have Richardson and Bush behind Manning.

Moore is under contract already. so stick with him as the backup.

Offense would be Manning, Bush, Richardson, Marshal, Bess, and Hartline. Behind an elite OL with three 1st rounders, including Cary, Long, and Pouncy, along with a top notch free agent right guard and maybe this years second and/or third.

Defense is pretty good too, so Super Bowl here we roll.