Yahweh, I hope not.

Why not? But whats bugging me is that , if that were true what does he have to think about?

What does he have to think about?

St. Louis is most likely offering him something very similiar and they also have Sam Bradford to offer him as well.....we have....Matt Moore.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

TreasurecoastPhinsfan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why not? But whats bugging me is that , if that
> were true what does he have to think about?


I couldn't care less what Ross wants to pay Fisher.

I just don't EVER want my HC having final say on personnel decisions.

Id rather let Fisher walk than cave on that issue.

yeah, sounds like a bad idea to me. Fisher didn't have personel control in TEN and word is he's a bad talent evaluator.
I am getting sick of this guy already. If he REALLY wanted either job he'd have picked already. Seems like we are hiring someone who either doesn't really want to coach, or more likely, would prefer to coach a different team.

I dont fault him for taking his time. This decision not only impacts him, but his family as well.

It is unfortunate for us, because we are looking for an answer. It also makes every other one of our candidates seem like second rate choices.


But, I really dont blame him for it. This is a big decision for him.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

I think he is deciding whether he really wants to coach again. Personally, I dont want to hire someone that gets in then in 2 years decides that being out of the game was more fun and less hassle. Then we are back to Square 1.

I agree if I'm Ross I'm telling him here is the final offer at 5:00 pm EST on 1/12/12 it expires and we are moving on. As my dad used to say either $hit or get off the pot.

THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TreasurecoastPhinsfan Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Why not? But whats bugging me is that , if
> that
> > were true what does he have to think about?
>
>
> I couldn't care less what Ross wants to pay
> Fisher.
>
> I just don't EVER want my HC having final say on
> personnel decisions.
>
> Id rather let Fisher walk than cave on that issue.





Yeah that has really helped us in the Past........having a GM.

We were in much better shape when Shula and J.J. had complete control.

dolphaholic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> berkeley223 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> Fisher didn't
> > have personel control in TEN and word is he's a
> > bad talent evaluator.>
>
> Not according to Volin;
>
>
>
> BenVolinPBP Benjamin Volin
> For his last 12 years with Titans, Fisher held
> role of Executive VP and had roster authority.
> Gotta think he wants same with Fins or Rams


I stand corrected. But he had a good relationship with his GM there, I wonder how often he exercised that veto power over GM's calls? Here, with Ireland, who knows.

I don't blame him for taking his time...but I wouldn't give him total control, nor would I give it to anyone. I just don't think it's a very good idea and it almost never works out in a near, or actual, superbowl win.

It's just too much for one person to do properly.

TreasurecoastPhinsfan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> THE Truth Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > TreasurecoastPhinsfan Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Why not? But whats bugging me is that , if
> > that
> > > were true what does he have to think about?
>
> >
> >
> > I couldn't care less what Ross wants to pay
> > Fisher.
> >
> > I just don't EVER want my HC having final say
> on
> > personnel decisions.
> >
> > Id rather let Fisher walk than cave on that
> issue.
>
>
>
>
>
> Yeah that has really helped us in the
> Past........having a GM.
>
> We were in much better shape when Shula and J.J.
> had complete control.



Actually, we weren't

Shula had 13 years to build a winner around Marino. He couldn't do it.

The fact that he could win as much as he did, drafting as POORLY as he did in that span is testament to the facts that Marino was perhaps the greatest QB of all time, that Shula was an all-time GREAT coach and a pretty poor GM...especially later in his career as the game began to evolve from power to speed.

You want to cry about bad GM's/talent evaluations...go look at the draft picks Shula wasted on bad players from 1984-1995.

Shula's 1st round picks in that span:

Jackie Shipp
Lorenzo Hampton
John Bosa
Eric Kumerow
Sammie Smith
Louis Oliver
Richmond Webb
Randall Hill
Marco Coleman
Troy Vincent
OJ McDuffie
Tim Bowens
Billy Milner

That's a pathetic record on 1st round picks.

4...maybe 5 (if you are a louis oliver fan) out of 13 were good/very good.

1 or two were decent roll players...

And 7 were flat out stinkers.



Heck, if you need more proof than that...that the single greatest coach in NFL history couldn't pull off both jobs at the same time...then you are never going to see THE Truth.

Sure you need great GM that is an elite talent evaluator... but for Tebow's sake, just imagine what Shula would have done on the field with the talent Bill Polian was pouring into the Bills and Panthers organizations over that time span!

I mean, if Don Shula...the DON SHULA...couldn't pull off both rolls, what hope does a lesser mortal like Jeff Fisher have of being great as a coach/GM?

Absolutely true on Shulas draft record. I think we can all also agree that Shula would not put up with:

Players refusing to leave the field after being told to;
Players not able to run with a team from the North East on Day one of the season;
Players throwing a football at another player (on the other team) and getting 15 yard penality;
Players showing up stumbling and alcohol on thier breath;

Should I go on?

drafting today is much different than in the 1980s. Back then the available info was much less than it is now, when there is film on tons more players and small school players are picked in greater numbers. So even if Shula was a good drafter back in the day, it doesn't mean much in today's NFL.
And weren't some of our best teams built by Bobby Beathard?

jrhammerjr Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I agree if I'm Ross I'm telling him here is the
> final offer at 5:00 pm EST on 1/12/12 it expires
> and we are moving on. As my dad used to say
> either $hit or get off the pot.

It sounds to me like we are coming off as desperate to get someone by not setting an ultimatum. I'm not sure this guy is worth the games and honeymooning they are giving him.

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> And weren't some of our best teams built by Bobby
> Beathard?


Yes they were...and refresh my memory for me...what was his coaching record in the NFL?

I would take Moore over Bradford.

If you don't want to be with us, sign with Rams..

dolphin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I would take Moore over Bradford.
>


Are you related to Matt?

IMO by far the best in HC/GM in the modern was JJ in his time at Dallas. And he has stated a number of times that formula does NOT WORK in the contemporary NFL with free agency et cetera. That’s proof sufficient for me that the roles need to be separated because we’re talking about TWO FULL-TIME JOBS and there simply aren’t enough hours in the day for one individual, no matter how dynamic they are, to pull off both jobs simultaneously.

JJ wasn't the GM in Dallas. Jerry Jones has always been the GM.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

Ireland will still be the GM, and do the work of a GM. I'm sure Fisher simply wants final say in order to avoid another Vince Young situation.

He doesn't want another player shoved down his throat.

Aqua&Orange Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> JJ wasn't the GM in Dallas. Jerry Jones has always
> been the GM.


JJ had total control of personnel when he came in. He drafted all the players. he constructed the Herschel Walker trade. Jones was learning at his hip along the way.

It was Jones' desire to take that GM role from him that led to their divorce.

JJ ran the show dude. And more than that, had the personality to keep Jones in check. Just go ask any long time Dallas fan about that and you'll get the same answer.

Jerry Jones >>>thinks<<< he's a talent evaluator, but the fan base knows otherwise. He's an bloviating egomaniac with football turrets.

You have to give credit where it’s due, and JJ put together a string of drafts in that time frame that were noting short of dominant. And of course it didn't hurt he unloaded Walker for pile of picks - similar to the move some are advocating here for a college player...

Loved Shula in his prime. But he wasted the Marino years and never gave Dan a running game nor a legit D. The TRUTH is:

Dan Marino carried Don Shula for over 10 years.

End of story. Where’s the glory.

BigNastyFish - Well said. If you can trade up without giving away the farm, then do so. Desperation in the NFL gets you nowhere. Ex - The Herschel Walker trade for Minn, Ricky Williams drafting by New Orleans, Raiders acquisition of Carson Palmer. Each instance was an obvious overpayment and benefitted the other team more than the team which acquired the "missing piece" of the puzzle.

How does New England continue to stay on top? They never overpay and they always stockpile draft picks.

Exactly. You can’t force the issue. The problem with the Dolphins is the history of not capitalizing on draft opportunities (i.e. Rogers, Ryan etc.) and simply ignoring the most important position year after year in the draft. It’s not rocket science. If you don’t draft QB prospects you’re guaranteed not to have any. We’ve executed that “strategy” with remarkable consistency.

Now the worst thing to do is overcompensate for past blunders by making a ridiculous deal to grab one college player and hope and pray he’s the “savior.”

I'm starting to lose patience with this guy, make up your damn mind already! Geez, he's worse then my wife.

dolphaholic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm starting to lose patience with this guy, make
> up your damn mind already! Geez, he's worse then
> my wife.


Agreed.

It would be one thing if he had a family with small kids and they were checking out schools or the like. But I don't believe he does.

If I'm Ross/Ireland, I continue interviewing other candidates, call Jeff today and tell him I need an answer by 5pm Friday becasue at that point I'm pulling my offer and looking for someone a bit more excited about coaching here.