Ok everyone, i have been getting ripped about me saying we dont need a franchise qb and all i hear is we need rg3 or luck and we have to get this qb and that coach and blah blah blah, and i have been saying it will not happen and this owner is gutless and blah blah. The latest things i have heard are the qb of the future should be flynn? who had great games against nobodys and by the way has a great teacher and coach. Dont think he will be worth crap here imo. And the hc of interest is the jets defensive coordinator?? are you really freaking serious?? this is what the powers are thinking. JOKE JOKE somebody tell me this is a serious joke??????????

fiedlerhater Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ok everyone, i have been getting ripped about me
> saying we dont need a franchise qb and all i hear
> is we need rg3 or luck and we have to get this qb
> and that coach and blah blah blah, and i have been
> saying it will not happen and this owner is
> gutless and blah blah. The latest things i have
> heard are the qb of the future should be flynn?
> who had great games against nobodys and by the way
> has a great teacher and coach. Dont think he will
> be worth crap here imo. And the hc of interest is
> the jets defensive coordinator?? are you really
> freaking serious?? this is what the powers are
> thinking. JOKE JOKE somebody tell me this is a
> serious joke??????????


1) We need a franchise QB. We haven't had one for 12 seasons. We have three, count'em *THREE* playoff appearances and exactly ONE playoff win since our last Franchise QB retired after the 1999 season.

That's not even mediocre. Its pathetic.

If you want more of that then what else is there to say?

2) Flynn shouldn't be our fist option, or our second, but he should be on the list of ways we can TRY to upgrade our QB position.

3) You can pick and choose your stories on head coaches...but suffice to say that there isn't just one candidate of interest at this point. There are MANY...some are experienced HC's (Fisher, Gruden, Billick, etc.) others are coordinators.

Here's an historical point of reference that you might want to keep in mind when you wig out over every coordinator you read is linked to our job opening over the coming weeks....all the great HC's have ONE single thing in common....they were all coordinators or assistants before they became great HC's.

4) Decaf. It will change your life.

He's had great games against nobodys huh...are you kidding me?

On December 19, 2010, Flynn made his first NFL start against the New England Patriots. Flynn threw three touchdown passes but ultimately lost the game 31-27. Flynn completed 23 of 37 passes for 254 yards in the loss.

On November 14, 2011, Flynn scored his first career rushing touchdown in the 4th quarter against the Minnesota Vikings.

On January 1, 2012, Matt Flynn started the final game of the season against the Detroit Lions. He threw for 480 yards and 6 touchdowns in the 45-41 victory, both of which set all-time Green Bay Packers records.

New England is far from a nobody and if not for a last minute sack which resulted in a fumble Flynn may have lead pulled off a vistory in that game....the fumble happened on the Pat's 15 yard line.

Minnesota being bad I'll give you.

Detroit however is a very talented team that made the playoffs this year.

Matt Flynn's numbers: COMP-82, ATT-132, COMP%-62.1, TD-9, INT-5, Yards-1,015, QB rating-92.8

Yes, he's had very limited playing time but when he's gotten onto the field he's been great.

That's why I wouldn't mind us picking him up...but I wouldn't guarantee him the starters job...that, he'd have to earn in camp. (But I also would not guarantee the starters job to anyone at this point) The best guy would start...period.

Also in the interest of continuity, if we were to bring in Flynn, it'd be smart to also bring in, or at least consider, Joe Philbin as the coach.

Flynn is hardly a known quantity.

He is a 7th round pick that played well in a handfull of collectively meaningless games while surrounded with good talented.

Would I bring him on as a backup with a chance to compete for the starting job? Sure. Would I bring him in as the starter out the gate? No way.

Flynn would not be a bad way to attempt to upgrade the position. But we should be carful in coronating him "The Solution". He may not work out. Four games in, we could all realize that he is nothing better than a backup QB.

Looks like we will be 8-8 for a long time

Matt Flynn, has the benefit of being in a system that makes QB look good... Matt FLynn is Matt Cassel in New England.....

All of the guys that were mentioned today as our HC options make me sick.... WTF? We better pay Gruden and get rid of Ireland if that would seal the deal with Gruden. But how does a GM negotiate with potential HC, when we all know that the main issue they have with taking the team is the guy who is interviewing them for the Job...stupid as a box of rocks, and ultimately why our franchise sucks.. The top guys... They fired Tony and you watch if the problem was Tony or them..... my guess is them.... potential coach prospects-

Jets defensive coordinator Mike Pettine, Saints defensive coordinator Gregg Williams, Packers offensive coordinator Joe Philbin, Redskins defensive coordinator Jim Haslett, and Cowboys special-teams coach Joe DeCamillis. Salguero puts Panthers offensive coordinator Rob Chudzinski and Falcons offensive coordinator Mike Mularkey in the “maybe” category.

Jim Haslett? Oh my gosh...I just barfed.

Barfed on Gregg Williams, too.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

dolfan1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Looks like we will be 8-8 for a long time


You wish!LOL.....Don't be mad because the jets are DONE with a capital D...Hah.


Oh and the Pats will be done soon 2>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> All of the guys that were mentioned today as our
> HC options make me sick.... WTF? We better pay
> Gruden and get rid of Ireland if that would seal
> the deal with Gruden. But how does a GM negotiate
> with potential HC, when we all know that the main
> issue they have with taking the team is the guy
> who is interviewing them for the Job...stupid as a
> box of rocks, and ultimately why our franchise
> sucks.. The top guys... They fired Tony and you
> watch if the problem was Tony or them..... my
> guess is them....


I couldn't disagree more. Not about Ireland being competent or incompetent. I think that remains to be seen, but I accept the fact that some have seen enough of him to say "enough".

I disagree with your notion that the HC shouldn't report to or be interviewed by the GM?

How do you think this is going to work? Ross is going to interview a dozen guys and pick one?

Ireland is going to interview a bunch of guys and make his choice. Ross will then sign off on it or he won't. And you know he will because he'll be eviscerated in the press if he doesn't. He has no football background, he gave Ireland total authority and a contract that prevents Ross from limiting that control by putting a coach above him. If he didn't let that play out he'd have to fire Ireland and either way, he'd look like a moron in the process.

This will be Ireland's hire. Period.


Furthermore, giving a HC GM duties as well has proven to be a very bad idea. Sure it works every now and then for the short term but it inevitably falls apart.

HC's need to focus on the day to day tasks of wining ball games.

GM's need to focus on the bigger picture of what is best for the franchise's long term success.

Often, those roles run counter to each other. One guy can't do both and be great at both. It just doesn't work.




>potential coach prospects-
>
> Jets defensive coordinator Mike Pettine, Saints
> defensive coordinator Gregg Williams, Packers
> offensive coordinator Joe Philbin, Redskins
> defensive coordinator Jim Haslett, and Cowboys
> special-teams coach Joe DeCamillis. Salguero puts
> Panthers offensive coordinator Rob Chudzinski and
> Falcons offensive coordinator Mike Mularkey in the
> “maybe” category.


I don't want an old coordinator who failed at his other HC gig or who is a career coordinator. Forget Mularky and Williams and any other assistant over the age of 50. I'm not looking for a safe pick.

Give me Fisher or Gruden or get me a young coordinator with upside (Carmichael, Gruden, Pettine, etc) and the fire/drive to be great.

Sure but Cam Cameron, Dave Wanstedt, and Tony Sparano, were all cordinators.....How has that worked out for us?

Secondly my notion is not that we shouldn't have a GM... But most of the time, certain GM's are coach approved if you know what I mean... None of the coaches that I would want would have Ireland on their approved GM list... maybe Gruden....but I dont think so, unless he is over paid, which Ross might do....

Ireland is going to do whatever it takes to secure the best coach because his livelyhood will depend on it, so I do like that angle, but his reputation preceeds him in this business, and it isnt good.

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sure but Cam Cameron, Dave Wanstedt, and Tony
> Sparano, were all cordinators.....How has that
> worked out for us?


Seriously? that's your response? Because we hired some bad coordinators we shouldn't hire any other coordinators?

That's like saying: "My first wife was a miserable woman so my next wife won't be a woman."


>
> Secondly my notion is not that we shouldn't have a
> GM... But most of the time, certain GM's are coach
> approved if you know what I mean... None of the
> coaches that I would want would have Ireland on
> their approved GM list... maybe Gruden....but I
> dont think so, unless he is over paid, which Ross
> might do....


My point was that an organizational structure with a coach at the top and a GM who runs his scouting dept and has to run his decisions by that coach is dysfunctional.

Coaches focus on the hear and now like any manager in business they are driven by day-to-day results.

GM's are like CEO's...they look at the big picture and hire people to focus on the day to day execution of that big picture.

Requiring the CEO to get sales managers approval on everything is a crappy way to run an organization.



>
> Ireland is going to do whatever it takes to secure
> the best coach because his livelyhood will depend
> on it, so I do like that angle, but his reputation
> preceeds him in this business, and it isnt good.

Fair enough. You don't have to believe in Ireland. He's done plenty to earn that distrust. But Ross clearly believes in him and that is why Ireland will make this call.

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sure but Cam Cameron, Dave Wanstedt, and Tony
> Sparano, were all cordinators.....How has that
> worked out for us?
>
> Secondly my notion is not that we shouldn't have a
> GM... But most of the time, certain GM's are coach
> approved if you know what I mean... None of the
> coaches that I would want would have Ireland on
> their approved GM list... maybe Gruden....but I
> dont think so, unless he is over paid, which Ross
> might do....
>
> Ireland is going to do whatever it takes to secure
> the best coach because his livelyhood will depend
> on it, so I do like that angle, but his reputation
> preceeds him in this business, and it isnt good.


&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
Sparano was not a coordinator. He was an O-line coach. Sean Peyton was the Cowboys coordinator.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

Aqua&Orange Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Crowder52 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Sure but Cam Cameron, Dave Wanstedt, and Tony
> > Sparano, were all cordinators.....How has that
> > worked out for us?
> >
> > Secondly my notion is not that we shouldn't have
> a
> > GM... But most of the time, certain GM's are
> coach
> > approved if you know what I mean... None of the
> > coaches that I would want would have Ireland on
>
> > their approved GM list... maybe Gruden....but I
> > dont think so, unless he is over paid, which
> Ross
> > might do....
> >
> > Ireland is going to do whatever it takes to
> secure
> > the best coach because his livelyhood will
> depend
> > on it, so I do like that angle, but his
> reputation
> > preceeds him in this business, and it isnt
> good.
>
>
> &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
> Sparano was not a coordinator. He was an O-line
> coach. Sean Peyton was the Cowboys coordinator.


He was an assistant HC, for Dallas as well as oline coach...which is basicly a higher job than the cordinators.... When the Dolphins canned Sparano, did they choose a cordinator to take over or the assistant HC...

Mike Pettine is interesting. I think he may have been on the staff in Baltimore when Nolan was there. These two guys together could create one hellacious defense for Miami. Plus he knows fat Rexs plays and strategies.

THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Crowder52 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Sure but Cam Cameron, Dave Wanstedt, and Tony
> > Sparano, were all cordinators.....How has that
> > worked out for us?
>
>
> Seriously? that's your response? Because we
> hired some bad coordinators we shouldn't hire any
> other coordinators?
>
> That's like saying: "My first wife was a miserable
> woman so my next wife won't be a woman."
>
>
> >
> > Secondly my notion is not that we shouldn't have
> a
> > GM... But most of the time, certain GM's are
> coach
> > approved if you know what I mean... None of the
> > coaches that I would want would have Ireland on
>
> > their approved GM list... maybe Gruden....but I
> > dont think so, unless he is over paid, which
> Ross
> > might do....
>
>
> My point was that an organizational structure with
> a coach at the top and a GM who runs his scouting
> dept and has to run his decisions by that coach is
> dysfunctional.
>
> Coaches focus on the hear and now like any manager
> in business they are driven by day-to-day results.
>
>
> GM's are like CEO's...they look at the big picture
> and hire people to focus on the day to day
> execution of that big picture.
>
> Requiring the CEO to get sales managers approval
> on everything is a crappy way to run an
> organization.
>
>
>
> >
> > Ireland is going to do whatever it takes to
> secure
> > the best coach because his livelyhood will
> depend
> > on it, so I do like that angle, but his
> reputation
> > preceeds him in this business, and it isnt
> good.
>
> Fair enough. You don't have to believe in
> Ireland. He's done plenty to earn that distrust.
> But Ross clearly believes in him and that is why
> Ireland will make this call.


First off yes, I am going to argue that there is a high level of failure and chance when choosing a guy that has never run a team... And our succession has proved that... It is alos fair for me to want a proven guy, because the only 2 decent coaches we have had in this organization were Jimmy Johnson and Don Shula, both hired after having success as a HC elsewhere....
I understand a GM is like a CEO, I also understand it is hard for a CEO with a bad reputation to hire good top people... hence the problem.....
I am in camp Gruden at this point, I think Ross would pay him, I think he would take the job for the right price, I am just unsure about 2 personalities like Gruden and Ireland coexisting... Dont think that will happen.... Sparano bit his tongue, turned the other cheek alot, that is not Gruden.... Gruden would be at war with Ireland because of how Ireland handles himself... on a side note, To me this has nothing to do with Irelands ability to pick talent

Crowder,

Everybody (well anybody with football sense) knows the only reason why Ross and Ireland promoted Todd Bowles is to fill the Rooney Rule, which would allow them to make the quicker hire they actually want.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

Aqua&Orange Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Crowder,
>
> Everybody (well anybody with football sense) knows
> the only reason why Ross and Ireland promoted Todd
> Bowles is to fill the Rooney Rule, which would
> allow them to make the quicker hire they actually
> want.


Yeah you are right it has nothing to do with the fact he was actually the assistant HC and shared in the daily HC responsibilities behind closed doors with Sparano... I understand the Rooney rule obligation but think that had very little to do with it... It is not a hard to accomadate the rooney rule... They could have just interviewed him after Sparano was fired , they gave him the interim HC, becasue he was best suited for the job...

Aqua&Orange Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Crowder,
>
> Everybody (well anybody with football sense) knows
> the only reason why Ross and Ireland promoted Todd
> Bowles is to fill the Rooney Rule, which would
> allow them to make the quicker hire they actually
> want.

Hiring a minority interim coach, to accelerate a head coaching search, does not count towards the Rooney rule. He still has to be interviewed after the season for the Rooney rule to be satisfied.

-Saw an article about it referring to Frazier in MIN,Crennel in KC, and us with Bowles.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/02/2012 10:28AM by sleekdogg.

Good point. Sparano has qualities that may make him a good coach....1 day...he may....but he needed years of experience as a co-ordinator.


I want someone who has been a Head Coach before.

sleekdogg Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Aqua&Orange Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Crowder,
> >
> > Everybody (well anybody with football sense)
> knows
> > the only reason why Ross and Ireland promoted
> Todd
> > Bowles is to fill the Rooney Rule, which would
> > allow them to make the quicker hire they
> actually
> > want.
>
> Hiring a minority interim coach, to accelerate a
> head coaching search, does not count towards the
> Rooney rule. He still has to be interviewed after
> the season for the Rooney rule to be satisfied.
>
> -Saw an article about it referring to Frazier in
> MIN,Crennel in KC, and us with Bowles.


&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
Well, people should understand that as the Interem HC, he will automatically get an interview.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Aqua&Orange Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Crowder,
> >
> > Everybody (well anybody with football sense)
> knows
> > the only reason why Ross and Ireland promoted
> Todd
> > Bowles is to fill the Rooney Rule, which would
> > allow them to make the quicker hire they
> actually
> > want.
>
>
> Yeah you are right it has nothing to do with the
> fact he was actually the assistant HC and shared
> in the daily HC responsibilities behind closed
> doors with Sparano... I understand the Rooney rule
> obligation but think that had very little to do
> with it... It is not a hard to accomadate the
> rooney rule... They could have just interviewed
> him after Sparano was fired , they gave him the
> interim HC, becasue he was best suited for the
> job...


&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
Wow...why so much tension towards me lately, Crowder??

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

And he will be so he satisfy's the rule. In fact I'd wager he will be the first person interviewed...might have even happened today.

Aqua&Orange Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Crowder52 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Aqua&Orange Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Crowder,
> > >
> > > Everybody (well anybody with football sense)
> > knows

> >
> >

>
> &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
> Wow...why so much tension towards me lately,
> Crowder??


All is good my friend, when you come up at me with these pretense's leading your statement in response to something I said, you got to expect a little sarcasm back. I know you have broad shoulders, no disrespect intended.....

I think lately we have disagreed on some ways to go about it and analysis, nothing directed at you, maybe just at your position or analysis....you havent been timid in telling me I am wrong that is for sure either...lol

Aqua&Orange Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Crowder52 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Sure but Cam Cameron, Dave Wanstedt, and Tony
> > Sparano, were all cordinators.....How has that
> > worked out for us?
> >
> > Secondly my notion is not that we shouldn't have
> a
> > GM... But most of the time, certain GM's are
> coach
> > approved if you know what I mean... None of the
> > coaches that I would want would have Ireland on
>
> > their approved GM list... maybe Gruden....but I
> > dont think so, unless he is over paid, which
> Ross
> > might do....
> >
> > Ireland is going to do whatever it takes to
> secure
> > the best coach because his livelyhood will
> depend
> > on it, so I do like that angle, but his
> reputation
> > preceeds him in this business, and it isnt
> good.
>
>
> &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
> Sparano was not a coordinator. He was an O-line
> coach. Sean Peyton was the Cowboys coordinator.



I believe that he called plays for the offense one year as Assistant HC...not sure if he had the offensive coordinator label as well...but is there really a difference?

fiedlerhater Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ok everyone, i have been getting ripped about me
> saying we dont need a franchise qb and all i hear
> is we need rg3 or luck and we have to get this qb
> and that coach and blah blah blah, and i have been
> saying it will not happen and this owner is
> gutless and blah blah. The latest things i have
> heard are the qb of the future should be flynn?
> who had great games against nobodys and by the way
> has a great teacher and coach. Dont think he will
> be worth crap here imo. And the hc of interest is
> the jets defensive coordinator?? are you really
> freaking serious?? this is what the powers are
> thinking. JOKE JOKE somebody tell me this is a
> serious joke??????????





Hey.........Brett Farve. Aron rodgers........GB does not exactly have a bad track record when it comes to QB's. Just saying.........

thinking about it more, Ireland will have a shot to sell Gruden...and to be honest maybe I am wrong in the analysis Gruden and Ireland couldnt coexist....There is no bigger caustic personality then Bill Parcells, so in theory(pun intended) Ireland could play a subservient role to Gruden as he did with Parcells. But I promise you, Gruden will not play the public subservient role to Ireland that Sparano was willing to play....lol

THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Crowder52 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------

> >potential coach prospects-
> >
> > Jets defensive coordinator Mike Pettine, Saints
> > defensive coordinator Gregg Williams, Packers
> > offensive coordinator Joe Philbin, Redskins
> > defensive coordinator Jim Haslett, and Cowboys
> > special-teams coach Joe DeCamillis. Salguero
> puts
> > Panthers offensive coordinator Rob Chudzinski
> and
> > Falcons offensive coordinator Mike Mularkey in
> the
> > “maybe” category.
>
>
> I don't want an old coordinator who failed at his
> other HC gig or who is a career coordinator.
> Forget Mularky and Williams and any other
> assistant over the age of 50. I'm not looking for
> a safe pick.
>
> Give me Fisher or Gruden or get me a young
> coordinator with upside (Carmichael, Gruden,
> Pettine, etc) and the fire/drive to be great.

I agree with truth. I don't want to play it "safe". It is time to put all the chips on the table, new young head coach and new franchise QB this off season. Besides, look at the best teams in the league right now. Ravens, Steelers, Saints, Packers, and Lions have some of the best coaches and they were all hired when coordinators. To me, the head coach hire is probably more important than who we get to play QB next year.

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think lately we have disagreed on some ways to
> go about it and analysis, nothing directed at you,
> maybe just at your position or analysis....you
> havent been timid in telling me I am wrong that is
> for sure either...lol


&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&


---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"