This is a moderated phorum for the CIVILIZED discussion of the Miami Dolphins. In this phorum, there are rules and moderators to make sure you abide by the rules. The moderators for this phorum are JC and Colonel.
NO. we should not take a 2nd round QB unless we are sold on one as the franchise guy. if we take one just to take a QB then it is a total waste of a pick.
if those two stay in school as well then i think one of two scenarios will play out:
1. we identify a franchise QB that will go later in the first or second round and we make sure we get him. then spend the rest of the draft on BPA at the positions Ken listed minus RB. ken i assume by DE you mean pass rusher and by LB you mean depth behind burnett and dansby.
or
2. we have done research and don't think any of the second tier QBs will be franchise level players. so we make a few trades and try to acquire extra picks for next year while addressing the positions on Kens list (again minus R. if this scenario plays out we should be able to acquire one high impact player at RT or OLB in the first round.
i know everyone wants a QB this draft but if jones and RGIII stay in school along with Barkley then there might not be a franchise level player besides Luck. we will have to trust our talent evaluators to make that call.
they said the same about josh freeman, if tebow, mccoy and bradford came out that year freeman was projected like a 3-4th round pick and was bumped up to first round because those guys all stayed in school. In my opinion there are about 30-40 qbs that come out every year and there is not a big difference between them (luck included). The difference is getting a guy that works for your system. you can get the best guy and if he does not work for your system he will be a buss (ala a.smith, harrington, russell, tim couch, carr and the list goes on...)
If there is a guy that has a 3 round grade right now but can work then get him in the first, no one will debate now that romo should have gone in the first and was undrafted, and the reality is there are 5 tony romos that could be probowlers and maybe HOF that go undrafted and never get a shot every year...
Agree with Miami Reppa. Although Luck is fundamentally sound, and and well schooled, there are no real guarantees. I would like to see some stats over the past 5-10 years of how many 1st round QB's have been busts versus later round QB's that have made it, and if you don't have the players around them they get killed a la David Carr
Romo, Kurt Warner, Brees, Brady, and Akili Smith,Ryan Leaf, Jemarcus Russell, etc are good examples of how bad pro sports scouting can be, and the teams that draft well and get diamonds in later rounds have a leg up on other teams
It takes 3 years to usually deterimine if your draft was successful(seems like 2 or less for the phins!)
The scary thing for us is is we have not drafted well in the second round in recent years. maybe a new coach and other talent evaluators will change things. the Parcels regime was not successful
You think of a guy like Kellen Moore, why can't he put on 20 lbs? He has the skills that are tough to teach and a better QB than Kaepernick. Can he be a Drew Brees, Chad Pennigton(he should be our QB coach) , or Colt Brennan?
Other guys have their strengths and weaknesses like Foles, Weeden and Cousins, Tannehill has a buzz, is a great athlete, but really with only 1 year of college level experience
Had anyone really heard of RG3 before this year, but I guess you could have said the same of Cam Newton
I have heard the Saits like Chase Daniel, but he isn't going to get any playing time behind Brees
Unless we move up, if Griffin stays, it looks like we may be looking OL again Riley Reif , Jonathan Martin or dropping down and picking up a extra pick or two
dolphin1423 Wrote:
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> NO. we should not take a 2nd round QB unless we
> are sold on one as the franchise guy. if we take
> one just to take a QB then it is a total waste of
> a pick.
RE:Of course you don't take just any old QB just to be taking one, But, Foles or Tannehill could very well end up being really good pro's because the do have the tools.
>
> if those two stay in school as well then i think
> one of two scenarios will play out:
>
> 1. we identify a franchise QB that will go later
> in the first or second round and we make sure we
> get him. then spend the rest of the draft on BPA
> at the positions Ken listed minus RB. ken i
> assume by DE you mean pass rusher and by LB you
> mean depth behind burnett and dansby.
RE: Agree, and yes exactly. We need another very high quality guy to rush the passer and compliment Wake. Then we need a playmaker at LB to push Dansby and Burnett and replace Taylor on a full time basis, even though I'd keep him as a part time guy...it'd also be a good choice to get one that can really pass cover, especially a TE.
>
> or
>
> 2. we have done research and don't think any of
> the second tier QBs will be franchise level
> players. so we make a few trades and try to
> acquire extra picks for next year while addressing
> the positions on Kens list (again minus R. if
> this scenario plays out we should be able to
> acquire one high impact player at RT or OLB in the
> first round.
RE: I think we need to take another RB because the jury is still out slightly on Thomas. Besides we'll need someone to return kicks and be a difference maker on special teams. That guy might as well be a backup to a key position.
>
> i know everyone wants a QB this draft but if jones
> and RGIII stay in school along with Barkley then
> there might not be a franchise level player
> besides Luck. we will have to trust our talent
> evaluators to make that call.
If griffin and barkley do not come out we need to do everything possible to draft luck...give a bunch of picks for him....or else its going to be suck for griffin and barkley again next year.
My heart cant take any more of the suck for a player.
berkeley223 Wrote:
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> RG3 will come out, because he is not stupid.
> Barkley on the other hand proved he is
No doubt in my mind barkley is dumb...Hasnt it been a case where a player lost millions because he didnt come out at the right time and had an injury or something like that?
samsam3738 Wrote:
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> berkeley223 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > RG3 will come out, because he is not stupid.
> > Barkley on the other hand proved he is
>
>
> No doubt in my mind barkley is dumb...Hasnt it
> been a case where a player lost millions because
> he didnt come out at the right time and had an
> injury or something like that?
>
> Im almost positive there has been.
yeah Colt Brennan, wasn't it? Also to a lesser extent Willis McGahee, although Willis had a $1M insurance policy in place *and* recovered.
samsam3738 Wrote:
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> berkeley223 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > RG3 will come out, because he is not stupid.
> > Barkley on the other hand proved he is
>
>
> No doubt in my mind barkley is dumb...Hasnt it
> been a case where a player lost millions because
> he didnt come out at the right time and had an
> injury or something like that?
>
> Im almost positive there has been.
I think he just reallys wants to be the #1 draft pick or a Heisman winner. Douche.
I argue that a guy who isn't primarily motivated by money but instead wants to learn, progress in his craft, and solidify his education. Is exactly the kind of person we'd want a QB or any other position.
Money should NEVER be a persons primary motivation for doing anything...JMO. Personal achievement and the benefit of others should be. Money will come and it will go, what you do is what gets you remembered.
Ken, great character The kind of guy you want to be a QB.
But if he gets a career-ending injury in his senior year, that doesn't change the fact that had he come out, his signing bonus would have been guaranteed, thus he gave up millions.
Great character but stupid.
Those are two different things.
I'm a Christian but being a good Christian doesn't make Tebow a good player. Tebow's play makes him a good player.
I think its pretty unjust for us to bash him for his decision.
What if the guy already has millions from heritage? He may not need any money, and just want to enjoy college life.
But in my opinion, I feel he wants to win a National Championship, and since they have been on a ban, and now they are off...they have a legit shot at winning it all next season.
Aqua&Orange Wrote:
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> I think its pretty unjust for us to bash him for
> his decision.
>
> What if the guy already has millions from
> heritage? He may not need any money, and just want
> to enjoy college life.
That's the funniest thing I've heard today, A & O.
i agree that it is a bad financial decision but, maybe the guy just wants to go to a bowl game. i can't remember if they were banned his freshman year but still he hasn't gotten much of the bowl experience. also, USC will be stacked next year
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/28/2011 05:52PM by dolphin1423.
college changes year to year, if colt came out he was a top 15 pick and slid to the second round, bradford was a #1 overall pick stayed and suffered a shoulder seperation vs airforce, he could now be damaged goods (time will tell), michael bush (louisville) was a top 5 overall pick (consensus #1 rb in the draft) he stayed and suffered a severly broken leg and had to put a rod in his leg, slid to the 4th or 5th (dont remember) and could not play his rookie year with the raiders, arian foster was a top 20 pick and stayed and slid out so far he was undrafted, decody fag suffers career ending injury at the combines, the list goes on and on. Taylor mays was a top 5 pick he stayed and what i think he slid to the 5th round, his own coach pete carroll woundnt even draft him lol... i understand you have friends in college but it's a barbaric sport and one injury or poor performance changes your draft stock so if your a top 5 or 10 pick you would be a fool to pass on the draft.
> McGahee never "returned" to the U. He left the
> moment he was eligible for the draft.
>
You're right, I just remember the insurance policy thing and thinking, this would be perfect for a QB deciding to stay in college one more year.
> There has never been a major case of an injury
> costing a player "millions".
I could swear there was....maybe an Oklahoma quarterback, Heisman candidate a few years back, decided to stay in school one more year, then got an arm/shoulder injury? Screwed his Heisman chances and *arguably* cost him "millions" but that's hypothetical.
Maybe if I followed college football more closely I'd remember who the hell I was thinking of.
ChyrenB Wrote:
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> Aqua&Orange Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I think its pretty unjust for us to bash him
> for
> > his decision.
> >
> > What if the guy already has millions from
> > heritage? He may not need any money, and just
> want
> > to enjoy college life.
>
>
> That's the funniest thing I've heard today, A & O.
LOL Yeah he probably just wants to keep sowing his royal oates for a little while longer while he is not very known......After he becomes famous its harder to do it and go unnoticed. Look at kobe bryant.
Miami Reppa Wrote:
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> college changes year to year, if colt came out he
> was a top 15 pick and slid to the second round,
> bradford was a #1 overall pick stayed and suffered
> a shoulder seperation vs airforce, he could now be
> damaged goods (time will tell), michael bush
> (louisville) was a top 5 overall pick (consensus
> #1 rb in the draft) he stayed and suffered a
> severly broken leg and had to put a rod in his
> leg, slid to the 4th or 5th (dont remember) and
> could not play his rookie year with the raiders,
> arian foster was a top 20 pick and stayed and slid
> out so far he was undrafted, decody fag suffers
> career ending injury at the combines, the list
> goes on and on. Taylor mays was a top 5 pick he
> stayed and what i think he slid to the 5th round,
> his own coach pete carroll woundnt even draft him
> lol... i understand you have friends in college
> but it's a barbaric sport and one injury or poor
> performance changes your draft stock so if your a
> top 5 or 10 pick you would be a fool to pass on
> the draft.
why do people keep bringing up colt Brennan? He was NEVER considered a 1st rounder (any more than Timmy Chang) and ended up going in the late rounds, and I don't think an injury had anything to do with it
Considering that RGIII will get his Master's Degree in the spring, there is no great reason for him to not declare for the draft. He's already won a Heisman, and Baylor is not a realistic potential national champion. I would be very surprised if he didn't come out. But, he may not be there when we pick. And there will be plenty of demand for him, and it won't be easy to trade up and get him. And there is a decent shot that Landry Jones goes back to school, in part because scouts say he needs more development time. You have to accept the hand you are dealt. And Miami should not force themselves to take a QB if there isn't one that they believe in. Finding a QB is very, very difficult. Just because you take one in the top 10, it doesn't make him a franchise QB. There are no guarantees. If there were, every team in the league would have a franchise QB. People keep saying we need to get one, like it's as simple as that. It's not.
I firmly believe, Barkley just wants to win a bowl game. He has not done that yet.
Because of the Bowl Ban on USC, Barkley's legacy, per say, at USC is still unwritten. He wants to go down as an All-time USC great with a Bowl win next season.