Name me 5 guys from that team off the top of your head.

That guy coached scrubs and took the fall for FLoyd Reese's terrible job of getting Fisher players.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

Yeah guys who break 2000 yards in a single season are a dime a dozen...lol

You are like arguing with a brick.

You want Mangini, but bash Fisher. You are starting to act like a certain poster that has been banned....numerous times.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

montequi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So, you guys like Gruden because:
>
> - he "looks angry" (what? Saban always looks
> pissed. Is that why we liked him?)

RE: This is a non issue really.
>
> - he's young (He's 4 years younger than Fisher.
> 48 to 53. THAT much difference?)

RE: Well yes, I mean not in the grand scheme of things but he's a young coach thats likely to coach for a longer period of time than older guys...older guys don't usually want to deal with as much crap, so they don't. (read retire, quit, or become lax)
>
> - he's energetic (So was Sparano...FIST PUMP!!!)

RE: Yes, but not quite to the degree Chucky was on the sideline.
>
> - he's knowledgeable (Really? You mean he sounds
> good as a commentator on TV?)

RE: No, there are many reports of players, coaches, and ex-players talking about how much he knows...those people I'll trust because they know more than we ever will.
>
> - he'll but the time in to get the job done
> (uhh...I hope ANY coach we hire does this. I'd
> think it's a requirement of the job!!)

RE: Maybe so, but not all of them do...Johnson, Saban, and Parcells (admittedly he was not the coach here) didn't.
>
> Sorry. Fisher has actually built and rebuilt
> football teams and won. With one he was 2 yards
> from winning the Superbowl. This was a team HE
> built! Gruden inherited a Superbowl-caliber team,
> won it, and proceeded to tear them down. I don't
> want Gruden.

RE: So Fisher was the GM and picked the players too? Funny, I thought that was Floyd Reese and currently Mike Reinfeldt. And yes he should have won that superbowl in 1999. The problem with Fisher is that he was far too up and down during his career at Tennessee.


1994-1-5
1995-7-9
1996-8-8
1997-8-8
1998-8-8
1999-13-3(Lost to St. Louis Rams in Super Bowl XXXIV)
2000-13-3 (Lost to Baltimore Ravens in AFC Divisional Game)
2001-7-9
2002-11-5 (Lost to Oakland Raiders in AFC Championship Game)
2003-12-4 (Lost to New England Patriots in AFC Divisional Game)
2004-5-11
2005-4-12
2006-8-8
2007-10-6 (Lost to San Diego Chargers in AFC Wild-Card Game)
2008-13-3 (Lost to Baltimore Ravens in AFC Divisional Game)
2009-8-8
2010-6-10

Career winning percentage: .542

There is a trend of him having two good seasons and then falling right off of the map and into the cellar. He's just too inconsistent for my liking.

However thats not the whole story as far as I'm concerned because you can make the same case against John Gruden too...I just like Gruden's energy and passion better.

The most consistent of the buch is easily Bill Cowher...but I don't think his heart and soul would be in it long term, if it was required.

Aqua&Orange Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Name me 5 guys from that team off the top of your
> head.
>
> That guy coached scrubs and took the fall for
> FLoyd Reese's terrible job of getting Fisher
> players.


I guess you missed it but going into the 2010 Season, the Titans had 6 probowl players on their team... Way more then Miami, going into last year.. Second most in the AFC, just for reference, so I am not sure you have an accurate recollection of facts... If that makes me a brick, you seem to have many brick like qualities yourself..

sorry 5, Haynesworth was the 6th and he went to the Redskins in 20010.
Kevin Mawae center, Chris Johnson rb, Kerry Collins, COrtland Finnegan Cb, and Chris Hope Safety, all played against Miami last year, all probowlers the year before... We had Jake Long, Fisher lost 29-17 to Sparano...

You know whats funny?

You had to look that up. Because you didnt know. Nobody did. The team had no names.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> the bottom line if you want exciting football back
> in Miami, you dont hire a defensive minded coach
> like Jeff Fisher... End of story... If developing
> this next great QB that you all want and covet is
> the priority, guess what Fisher is not the guy to
> coach or develop him...lol.. Fisher is Wannstedt
> IMO...
> Gruden is an offensive guy,he would be my first
> choice.


Crowder, name one QB that Gruden's developed?

dolphaholic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Crowder, name one QB that Gruden's developed?

I don't think quarterbacks are ever developed by the pros. They come into the pros and if not developed already, they fail. If they are developed, then the coach readies them. If the coach cannot ready them, then they afterwards fail.

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> dolphaholic Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Crowder, name one QB that Gruden's developed?
>
> I don't think quarterbacks are ever developed by
> the pros. They come into the pros and if not
> developed already, they fail. If they are
> developed, then the coach readies them. If the
> coach cannot ready them, then they afterwards
> fail.

Tell that to Andy Reid

Fisher was up and down, but Gruden only went down in Tampa after the Superbowl.

qbs are always developed. are you kidding? you say "readied" but that is just another word for development. they must develop their recognition of NFL defenses and develop their decision making. they must develop their knowledge of the offense and develop chemistry. they have to learn everything. that is called development. why do players in general improve over time? because they develop. they have the physical skills or they wouldn't be in the nfl. they develop their mental aspect of the game.

tell me, would you rather have RGIII(hypothetically) develop these skills with Jeff Fisher or gruden.
i don't want fisher or gruden. i want a proven OC that knows the game well and keep nolan. in GB, mccarthy does the offense and just leaves a veteran, capable DC dom capers to handle the defense. that is the way to go. jay gruden or joe philbin or some good OC is the right choice. recent SB winners didnt have retreads as coaches. McCarthy and Payton were OC and got hired. so get a top offensive guy and let him get his QB and keep nolan for the D. i mean, if we are finally and hopefully going to pull the trigger on a 1st round QB then why dont we get him a coach that specializes in offense and, specifically, the QB position.

keep ireland for continuity of the roster because it is a talented team. i would be ok with replacing ireland but i dont want to see drastic roster changes. we are not the 1-15 talentless squad of a few years ago. we have a lot of young pieces in place.

for the record, fisher or gruden or cowher would be not be the worst thing but they are all overrated. probably the best thing about those guys would be their ability to assemble a high quality staff of assistant coaches and coordinators.

Gruden inherited a SB-ready team...and got them over the hump. But, don't forget that the team they beat in the SB was the team he built during his previous years.

Regarding developing a QB, he took Rich Gannon - a career backup/part-time starter and made him one of the most consistently good QBs for about 5 years in Oakland. Also, he was part of the offensive coaching staffs (and I believe was recognized for a QB specialization) in SF and GB in the early 90s when Steve Young and Brett Favre were developing into HoF QBs.

I like the fact that he was able to win the SB with Brad Johnson, but I'm guessing he would have loved the opportunity to develop a top-tier QB in Tampa. I think that that organization didn't realize how quickly the team got old (remember they were SB contenders for about 4-5 years running) and tried to band-aid too much rather than rebuilding.

I think it's also been documented that Gruden loves Luck. Now, I don't think we'll get him (though I'd love it), but I think he's all on board with a quality young QB to develop into a SB winner...and I think he has the track record to back it up.

Aqua&Orange Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You know whats funny?
>
> You had to look that up. Because you didnt know.
> Nobody did. The team had no names.


that is your argument, sounds likes you already submmitted to me, when this is all u have to say..lol... But actually I didnt have to look it up, I know Titans had a bunch of probowlers in 2009, it was all over the press, they were a top probolw team... I guess you missed that whole thing...lol

> dolphaholic Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Crowder, name one QB that Gruden's developed?



Really you are going to aks me this question...lol...hahahahah... Ok, let me take a wild gander at this one, are you ready, are you sure.... He was part of the Holmgren offensive coaching team that developed some no name guy they call Brett Farve, as well Gannon when he took the Raiders to the AFC championship and multiple play off appeareances..



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/15/2011 03:04AM by Crowder52.

I'm not sure how much credit Chucky should get for Favre, and I was talking more about Gruden as a HC, touche' on Gannon, but the point i'm trying to make about Gruden is (I wouldn't mind Gruden or Fisher by the way), that he treats the QB position like a red-headed step child, and for a franchise that's been starving for a "franchise QB" since #13 left, i'm not gonna lose any sleep over him staying in Bristol and us getting Fisher.
By the way, IMO Gruden is grossly over-rated as an announcer, he's average at best.

I don't think we can just look at results in picking a HC. Leadership style and ability to field the best players on the team at any given time is really important.

Honestly, I don't know who does that best of all the big name prospects out there.

Ross needs to do a lot of due diligence in checking out these prospects and once he has a short list, persuading one of them to be hired. The list should be 3 and their capabilities nearly identical.

Cowher and Gruden are non-players--they've said so and I believe them.

Another thought--whomever is landed, like a big fish (not the Tuna LOL) some of us will still moan and groan about the hiring. That's human nature--yet we need to get behind this new coach 100%.

Aqua&Orange Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you would support Mangini over Fisher, then I
> have to seriously question your knowledge of
> football. Seriously.


Holy cow anybody but mangini please........Yes even fisher.

Didn't Gruden, for a brief time, also coach Warner when they were both with the Packers organization?

I can see jet fans rejoicing and dancing if we ever sign mangini even as a coordinator.

JC Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Didn't Gruden, for a brief time, also coach Warner
> when they were both with the Packers organization?


Doubt it, Gruden was the WR coach for 3 years in G Bay before moving on.

Sigh, Dolphin1423 I have to explain to you the semantical difference that everybody saw but you apparently. "Development" refers to your skills. "Readying" refers to your ability to know how to apply those skills to the game.

dolphaholic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> JC Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Didn't Gruden, for a brief time, also coach
> Warner
> > when they were both with the Packers
> organization?
>
>
> Doubt it, Gruden was the WR coach for 3 years in G
> Bay before moving on.

Oh okay...I just remember seeing an old snapshot of the two of them at a Packers training camp. Would make sense if he were the receivers coach.