Because I've been watching pro football since 1956 and have seen games being played about a decade before the Dolphins even came into existence. I didn't always agree with coaching decisions. But including all those coaches (including Dolphin coaches), I have never had the same experience that I had with Sparano in which not only would I have gone the other way on decisions (like it's a toss-up) but Sparano is the only coach wherein I have had the experience that a great many of his decisions with which I disagree are just bone-assed dumb!

Concur.

It's tough to get worse than Cam Cameron, but it appears we've sunk that low.

If its gruden or cowher is not going to be just better its going to be outstanding.

Its its anybody else then just look out because anything can happen.

Why do i have the feeling that ex tenessee coach is going to stink here if we happen to sign him?

montequi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's tough to get worse than Cam Cameron, but it
> appears we've sunk that low.


Are you trying to say we're Falling Backward, Slowly?

With the reports that Ireland's safe, I doubt it'll be Gruden or Cowher. Maybe Fisher? but probably some hot-shot co-ordinator or college coach.

JC Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> montequi Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > It's tough to get worse than Cam Cameron, but
> it
> > appears we've sunk that low.
>
>
> Are you trying to say we're Falling Backward,
> Slowly?

Actually, his edict was FAIL Forward Fast. So, we're actually Succeeding Backward. As for the Slowly part, the jury's out on that.

LOL, Monte.

dolphaholic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> With the reports that Ireland's safe, I doubt
> it'll be Gruden or Cowher. Maybe Fisher? but
> probably some hot-shot co-ordinator or college
> coach.

Ugh...I hope not. Check our success since Shula:

JJ = ex College coach and formerly successful Head Coach. Did fairly well.
Wanny = ex Coordinator and formerly UNsuccessful Head Coach.
Saban = ex College coach with no pro-HC experience
Cam = ex Coordinator with no pro-HC experience
Sparano = ex Assistant and Position coach with no pro-HC experience

So, what I see is, we need someone who, at one time, was a successful NFL HC. I'm done experimenting!!! If we don't land Fisher, Cowher, Gruden, or Reid...then I'm afraid it's back to square one.

CherynB: The fact is...you don't, No one does. Even if we do hire Gruden or Cowher we still don't know they will be better.

Without an immediate and 100% buy in from the players...we very well could be looking at the same old, same old...sub par seasons. Gruden has had them, and so has Cowher, nothing says they won't again.

Change...isn't always better.

That said, if we can get Gruden I'm all for it...not sold on Fisher at all, and Cowher, with his demands can suck eggs. None of the other veteran coaches should even be interviewed, IMHO.

If we hire an assistant coach or someone from college...we've just set the franchise back another three to four years, guaranteed. Due to the learning curve as well as the inevitable personnel and system changes.

As long as Jeff Ireland is the GM, the next coach will not be better then Tony...Reality check: Cowher or Gruden are not going somewhere that they dont have full control of personel, besides Irelands caustic personality... THe next coach will be someone that kisses Ireland ass.... that is probably a bad thing... If Ross wanted to do it, and go after a big dog, you surely dont do it with Ireland...lol

As long as their Mothers aren't Crack Whores......you don't need to be afraid of Irlend.

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ken, you are embarrassing yourself. When I said
> that the reason I know that the next coach would
> be better based on watching football since 1956,
> that was a statement of the reason for my
> confidence.

RE: I'm not embarrassing anyone...and I understand why you made the statement. However you can't have it both ways. I have been watching football for a very long time as well, what difference does it really make? We both have opinions and they are both valid to us.
>
> If you took it as a statement of the reason that I
> was correct then you indulged an interpretation
> that no one else could possibly have indulged.
> That's why I followed it with the statement that I
> could not predict the future.

RE: No I just thought it was an assinine statement to make in the first place. Since as you said, no one can know.
>
> You seeing a contradiction in those two statements
> only reflects your inability to make that simple
> distinction.

RE: Those two statements do in fact contradict one another. There is nothing more to it really.
>
> You're off the beam, Ken. And at some points you
> turn logic on its head by adopting my position.
>
> Remember I was the one who said that if you
> concede that Sparano was a rotten coach, you don't
> hold back from firing him just because you might
> even end up with a worse coach.

RE: I can't concede that because he isn't...based upon what the team has done this season under very adverse circumstances, disregarding the record. My point was continuity is the better solution and that it has been proven by nearly every sucessfull team. And you insinuated that there was not a worse coach over the last 50 years...so your position is he's the worst ever in that time span, very big statement.
>
> You turn around and say basically that since I
> cannot guarantee getting a better coach I must be
> stupid for not sticking with the coach I know is
> bad.

RE: No, to say that you know he's bad and be in a rush to hire someone, nay, anyone, else despite Sparano's and the teams progress this season is not looking at history. Because the teams that change coaches often (like we have been doing) are always the bad teams...it does not take a genious to figure that out.
>
> I don't think many agree with your logic, even the
> other FPBs. They defend Sparano on the grounds
> either that he is not that bad or that he was that
> bad but has learned.

RE: Thats ok if they don't...fans are notoriously short sighted. They want immediate success and when they don't get it they want everyone fired and to start over with the next big thing. It rarely works unless the next big thing is afforded stability. And Sparano was learning, as was the team. Sometimes that's not worth throwing away. If it was, many good coaches wouldn't get a second chance to get it right.
>
> No one has adopted your naked fear of the future
> argument.

RE: My argument isn't, and never was, that we should keep Sparano because the next guy might be worse. However, without a 100% total buy in from the present roster he almost certainly will be worse...in the short term. You see if that does not happen then a roster turnover will have to happen...that will set the team back.
>
> But, ta ta, I must end this nowhere conversation
> because his butt is gone, gone, gone.
>
> Sorry that events rained on your dreams, Ken.

RE: My day was not rained on, even though here in Florida it did rain all day. If you check prvious posts from me you find that I condoned canning him during the bye week if we hadn't won a game. BUT, then we started improving the little things, and started displaying heart, and desire, and toughness, and we've been in every game this season, throughout the worst possible circumstances...that's reason to look at more than the overall record or whether or not we kicked a field goal or went for it on 4th and 1.


You are right however, and like I said in an eariler post...it dosent matter anymore the discussion is now moot. His butt is gone.

Doesnt matter now, we are gonna find out.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

With Ireland around the Gruden, Cowher & Fisher possibilities fade away. One shot perhaps is Brian Billick. No Mangini please. If Ross would change his mind and give the Sparano treatment to the Baylor placekicker. Maybe we could have used him yesterday for that 55 yarder.

Please God, no...to Billick.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

I want Gruden. Not Jon, Jay.

He has coached pro ball (arena league) and been successful to the tune of two championships. He is a bright guy, former quarterback, very good offensive coordinator who has demonstrated he can work with a young guy and make him successful (Andy Dalton).

If his last name wasn't Gruden he would be taken more seriously as a candidate, IMO. As it is, he is overshadowed by his brother and I think people will assume that he is only being considered because of his last name, when it's really quite the opposite.

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ken Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >> RE: I'm not embarrassing anyone...and I
> understand
> > why you made the statement. However you can't
> have
> > it both ways. I have been watching football for
> a
> > very long time as well, what difference does it
> > really make? We both have opinions and they are
> > both valid to us.
>
> Duhhhhh.... that's the point, everyone has their
> own point of view and all my thread said was that
> my belief was based on the way I saw and digested
> history. Duhhhh....of course you can't see history
> through my eyes. Duhhhhh.

****RE: Childish.
>
> > RE: No I just thought it was an assinine
> statement
> > to make in the first place. Since as you said,
> no
> > one can know.
>
> The statement was meant to explain my position,
> not prove it. I can't make it any simpler for you
> but I bet other guys are cracking up.

****RE: They are now because I'm responding once again to this drivel you are spouting. You made the statement because you actually believe it.
>
>
> > RE: Those two statements do in fact contradict
> one
> > another. There is nothing more to it really.
>
> Not if you interpret the title of the post
> correctly. Again, you are embarrassing
> yourself...... Remember I was the one who said
> that if you concede that Sparano was a rotten
> coach, you don't hold back from firing him just
> because you might even end up with a worse coach.

****RE: How do I know the next coach will be better? Because I've been watching pro football since 1956 and have seen games being played about a decade before the Dolphins even came into existence. I think I did interpet the title of the post correctly, especially when you add the very first sentence to it. You think you are some sort of modern day football guru that because of your vast knowledge of the game can decide who is good and who is bad. You completely ignore the fact that stability in the staff is a good thing and was really my whole point, in a nut shell.
>
> >
> > RE: I can't concede that because he isn't...
>
> Well see that's where you differ from me and a lot
> others on the board. You think Tony is a good
> coach. Hey, if I did, I would be defending him to
> but as an outsider, I have to repeat what Aqua &
> Orange said, "Seriously dude, after that, how do
> you expect me to ever take you seriously again."

****RE: NO where did you ever read me saying I thought he was a good coach. I'm just not one to crucify someone when they are improving...Tony was doing that. Maybe not fast enough for most. But the team was improving in it's intangibles...things that will never show up in the stats. If you don't think so then fine. I'm just not someone that has a lot of knee jerk reactions.
>
> based
> > upon what the team has done this season under
> very
> > adverse circumstances, disregarding the record.
> My
> > point was continuity is the better solution and
> > that it has been proven by nearly every
> sucessfull
> > team. And you insinuated that there was not a
> > worse coach over the last 50 years...so your
> > position is he's the worst ever in that time
> span,
> > very big statement.
>
> Yeah, and I stand by it.

****RE: Thats fine...he isn't. But it's OK if you think so.
>
> > RE: No, to say that you know he's bad and be in
> a
> > rush to hire someone, nay, anyone, else despite
> > Sparano's and the teams progress this season
> is
> > not looking at history. Because the teams that
> > change coaches often (like we have been doing)
> are
> > always the bad teams...it does not take a
> genious
> > to figure that out.
>
> Duhh.....teams with winning records usually don't
> replace teams....duhh...why do you think we wanted
> Sparano goone. and you talk about Sparano's
> progess this season. The man is 4-9 and blew
> about 5 of those games with his personal on the
> field decisions. and you call that progress. Again
> I quote A & O.
> I don't think many agree with your logic, even
> the
> other FPBs. They defend Sparano on the grounds
> either that he is not that bad or that he was
> that bad but has learned.

****RE: Yes there was progress, it just didn't show up much in the stats or the win loss record...not all meaningful improvements do. I also don't care if many agree with me. Dosen't make me wrong, or them right. The reason why people wanted him gone was simply the win loss record...for football fans thats all there is...if you are not in the playoffs then you stink. Then once you are if you are not in the superbowl you stink.
>
> > RE: Thats ok if they don't...fans are
> notoriously
> > short sighted.
>
> Again, have you forgotten that you are a fan or do
> you have some job in football that you have not
> made us aware. I thought you were a small
> businessman in the West somewhere.

****RE: No, I am a fan...I'm just not a short sighted one. Almost all winning teams have stability with the coaches. And I live in Florida not in the west and I don't own a buisiness.
>
> >They want immediate success and
> > when they don't get it they want everyone fired
> > and to start over with the next big thing. It
> > rarely works unless the next big thing is
> afforded
> > stability. And Sparano was learning,
>
> The man was the offensive coordinator at Dallas.
> He was not a high school coach elevated to the big
> times.

RE: And this means what?
>
> as was the
> > team. Sometimes that's not worth throwing away.
> If
> > it was, many good coaches wouldn't get a second
> > chance to get it right.
>
> > My argument isn't, and never was, that we
> > should keep Sparano because the next guy might
> be
> > worse. However, without a 100% total buy in
> from
> > the present roster he almost certainly will be
> > worse...in the short term. You see if that does
> > not happen then a roster turnover will have to
> > happen...that will set the team back.
>
> We'll see.

****RE: Yes we will.
>
> > My day was not rained on, even though here in
> > Florida it did rain all day. If you check
> prvious
> > posts from me you find that I condoned canning
> him
> > during the bye week if we hadn't won a game.
> BUT,
> > then we started improving the little things,
> and
> > started displaying heart, and desire, and
> > toughness, and we've been in every game this
> > season, throughout the worst possible
> > circumstances...that's reason to look at more
> than
> > the overall record or whether or not we kicked
> a
> > field goal or went for it on 4th and 1.
>
> Doesn't take much to satisfy you and change your
> opinion.

RE: It takes improvement...and it was there, as were many additional intangibles that hold the staff and players in good stead. I also didn't say that he shouldn't be fired. Just that it was something to consider in the interest of the on-going improvement of the team. I don't think setting the team back three to four years is a great idea, unless you have to. Ross who has the ONLY opinion that matters thought so, that's why Sparano is now gone.
>
>
>
> > You are right however, and like I said in an
> > eariler post...it dosent matter anymore the
> > discussion is now moot. His butt is gone.

montequi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> JC Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > montequi Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > It's tough to get worse than Cam Cameron, but
> > it
> > > appears we've sunk that low.
> >
> >
> > Are you trying to say we're Falling Backward,
> > Slowly?
>
> Actually, his edict was FAIL Forward Fast. So,
> we're actually Succeeding Backward. As for the
> Slowly part, the jury's out on that.


OMG you're right..and I thought FALLING forward was silly. whew!

I'm on that bandwagon with you. I think he would be a great choice.