You guys have lost your minds – giving up everything on one spec player?

How much did we spend on Moore? Like he was a FA and that cost us ZERO in draft capital. If we’re out of the running for the top 2 or 3 QB’s then you draft based on the existing philosophy, and that means complete the mission as specified. The alternative is a complete reboot and invest another “period of time” in reassembling the roster as a new regime sees fit.

Relax. Now is not the time to worry about winning, we’re still ramping up Project BIG and the results are inevitable – especially when you consider the infinite scope of space and time. What’s a few hundred years in geological terms? So what’s the issue with another year or two under the current directive?

Take a chill pill fellas. This team is really close to something
and we should see what that is.

BNF.

Also i hope moore gets the flu or something. We dont need to be winning more games.

bignasty fish moore was doing great where he was befor one year and stunk really bad the next. Moore needs to hit the pine next year....We need a top rookie QB...............................................

inconsistency is not a good trait for a QB. its not a good trait for any type player.

I’m familiar with Moore’s history. Have you ever heard of a guy like Jim Plunkett? Just because a player underperforms in a given situation doesn’t necessarily mean he’ll do the same in a different situation. At this point, no matter what you think about the regime, Moore looks like a steal and a player that can be coached into a legit NFL QB.

IMO he has shown signs of being good enough to win with, which is NOT the same as saying he’s a franchise level dude. But he’s capable, and if surrounded by the right package – specifically a power running game with some outside speed and diversity, he can put points on the board.

Hence, I think it would be ill-advised and contemptuous to the franchises future to “sell out” for a college QB – because I am NOT as blown away as many are by Luck. I like the package Barkley has but I wouldn’t over-pay for him – not when we have a few critical spots to fill out in order to fully implement this regimes design. And that means a dominant RT is a key piece of the puzzle, along with G and TE and a few spots on D.

Last point is, the lockout obviously hurt this team in a huge way. And I’m not making excuses, but the core of the team is really young and they suffered for that reason. And of course getting rid of Henne helped the team in a number of ways including the locker room dynamic.

BNF.

BigNastyFish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Last point is, the lockout obviously hurt this
> team in a huge way. And I’m not making excuses,
> but the core of the team is really young and they
> suffered for that reason. And of course getting
> rid of Henne helped the team in a number of ways
> including the locker room dynamic.
>
> BNF.


I agree with this............So long henne.

If i had a choice between henne and moore id pick moore in a heartbeat......................But i still want them to draft a qb real high. I wouldnt even be mad if we draft a qb in both the 1st and 2nd rounds.

Weird thing is…we’re in a LOT better shape at QB than this time last year. And Moore has shown some really bright spots albeit with some lapses. But he inspires a TON more confidence at the position than Henne. With that in mind, I’m all for adding to the engineering aspect of this team and building the OL as priority #1 (RT and G) and then TE. Follow that with best athlete available on D (preferably OLB and/or S).

If we can go into next year with Moore improving from an entire off-season program and training camp, and:

Jake gets back healthy, with the added horsepower up front, and Thomas getting in better shape and stretching the hamstrings throughout the off-season, et cetera – we could be pretty tough to handle in physical terms and diversity.

Hey Sam,

You have to do whatever it takes to get a franchise QB. Moore and especially Henne, are turds.

I think we have to do whatever it takes to get a top QB.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

We are not out of the running for one of the top five QB's...Luck, Barkley, Griffin, Jones, and Foles will not be gone by the time we pick...which I do believe as of right now would be 9th.

We can't trade the entire draft for any of them because they may all fail to be good players...doubtfull but it could happen. And we have other holes to fill...I agree that we need to draft SOMEBODY though and it needs to be with our #1 pick...

I wouldn't give up more than our #1 this year as well as our #3 and our #2 next year to move up for any QB in the draft. You have to look at the entire team and not just one position...though that one position is a very big one.

Not they all will be gone and there is a lot of rumors that Peyton doesn't want the colts top draft Luck, so they may trade him! The mannings are known to play hardball.

Tannehill, Weeden, Foles Lindley, Wilson the next rung

Tannehill could be our guy if the others are gone, some rank him higher than RG3 & Jones

I am reading this board and just shaking my head. listen to what you guys are saying, basically we are winning to much... uhh isnt that the point of playing. There is not gaurentees that a rookie will pan out. Infact i can almost garuntee that a rookie in his rookie year (next year) will NOT play better that moore or henne so what is the point? we are playing at a playoff level and if we can keep up the momentum we should be able to make noise next year. We have two solid guys and that is what you need to make a playoff run. I am very happy with our QB situation. We need to use our pick on a ball hawkin free safety. I have been saying that for about three years now.

We have to keep Moore as our starter for next year no matter if we get one of the top Qs coming out.
There is no way in hell that we should start a stone-cold rookie.
He would need at least a year to acclimate to the pro game.

And if, and I mean if, we finish the year 8-8. Then we would have gone 8-1 from week 8 on.
The momentum would be huge going into a complete off-season and then into next year.
Keeping the regime intact would be a must at least for another year.

socalphin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We have to keep Moore as our starter for next year
> no matter if we get one of the top Qs coming out.
> There is no way in hell that we should start a
> stone-cold rookie.
> He would need at least a year to acclimate to the
> pro game.
>
> And if, and I mean if, we finish the year 8-8.
> Then we would have gone 8-1 from week 8 on.
> The momentum would be huge going into a complete
> off-season and then into next year.
> Keeping the regime intact would be a must at least
> for another year.

I agree, except for the part about keeping the regime intact. I still think Sparano has to go, but I like the OC and DC.

BigNastyFish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You guys have lost your minds – giving up
> everything on one spec player?


What do you consider everything? A couple early-round guys that might contribute some playing time at lesser positions and a bunch of late round scrubs that end up on the Bengals practice squad after we release them the week before the season starts?

Yeah I think I could sacrifice one year of that for a young, elite franchise Quarterback to lead our team for the next decade and a half.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/07/2011 10:23PM by Panteraize.

If I could go back to the 98 draft, I would have given up the next 5 first round picks to get Peyton Manning.

Those 5 picks sucked for us anyways.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

Aqua&Orange Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If I could go back to the 98 draft, I would have
> given up the next 5 first round picks to get
> Peyton Manning.
>
> Those 5 picks sucked for us anyways.

Wouldn't that mean you'd give up Ricky Williams. As much as a pain he was, he gave us a couple amazing seasons. I wonder what it would have looked like with Ricky AND Peyton in the backfield!

I wouldn’t go off the deep end, but this team is showing some positive signs, and more important IMO, the QB position is NOT the black hole it was a year ago. I think a lot of you guys are suffering a Henne hangover still because…

Moore is playing some decent football. And the kid has produced wins and outplayed Henne is EVERY respect. So chill out a bit, and look at the bigger picture for a minute.

Moore has significant upside – and with a full offseason and training camp the kid could be pretty damn solid. More important, the kid obviously has the support in the locker room and his teammates like his game. So before we go nuts trying to draft a spec, consider the possibility that Moore presents us with.

Moore’s development allows us to build the OL into a truly dominant unit (add a killer RT and G), add a rangy pass catching TE and have some draft cache left over for best athlete on D at S and OLB (or other positions if you prefer).

Keep in mind the strike really hurt this young team – especially when we were trying to implement a new O and had a number of important roster additions – not to mention dealing with Henne and finally getting Moore on the field.

No, I’m NOT saying Moore is a sure fire franchise QB, but based on the architecture of this team – if we complete the OL:

1) add a dominant RT and earth mover G
2) Jake gets back 100% healthy
3) Pouncey continues to develop and:
4) Jerry continues to emerge and one of the core young OL emerges

Add it up and our OL could finally be the cornerstone feature we’ve been trying to build.
Match that with Thomas and Bush along with a diversified passing game and:

Moore doesn’t have to be “spectacular,” just a solid football player capable of spreading the ball around. I think the above formula is a winner, and the odds are pretty solid we can pull it off.

Furthermore, I’ve been advocating taking a development QB in R3-R5 forever, and that formula WILL work if you stick to it and build the roster will high value. Selling the farm for a single player is NOT the right move at this point – not the way things are shaping out.

When the draft comes, and there’s a TON that happen before that including this team finishing near 500, if we’re in a place to grab Barkley (or similar) I’ll be onboard, but I wouldn’t like us to trade away picks when that move is usually the loser.

This is all contingent on what Moore shows in the final 4 games. But if he’s continues to demonstrate growth and maturity, and the team plays solid football around him – I see NO REASON to abandon the plan to develop him in the offseason and finish the job on the OL to support his “game.”



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/08/2011 05:15AM by BigNastyFish.

BNF: We've heard it before. This has been the philosophy almost every year since Shula left. Wanny prefered to pound the ball...hence Fiedler/Williams. Where did THAT get us? Now Parcells did it again. But we've gone nowhere since 2008.

Face it, NFL rules are skewed toward passing teams now. That's why there are 3 QBs on pace to break records this year. We need to join that bandwagon or we're due for another 10+ years of disappointment.

Miami Reppa Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am reading this board and just shaking my head.
> listen to what you guys are saying, basically we
> are winning to much... uhh isnt that the point of
> playing. There is not gaurentees that a rookie
> will pan out. Infact i can almost garuntee that a
> rookie in his rookie year (next year) will NOT
> play better that moore or henne so what is the
> point? we are playing at a playoff level and if we
> can keep up the momentum we should be able to make
> noise next year. We have two solid guys and that
> is what you need to make a playoff run. I am very
> happy with our QB situation. We need to use our
> pick on a ball hawkin free safety. I have been
> saying that for about three years now.




The fact is WE LOST 7 BEFORE THIS 4 GAME WIN STREAK AGAINST CRAPPY TEAMS! So winning is just not attractive anymore. Especially with our teams Future Franchise QB hanging on a thread. Win a few more games that mean nothing or lose a chance to draft Barkley or Griffin? Which option do you think we will even remember or care about next season more!!?

Glad your happy with the mediocre QB situation. Your also happy with your Job as the French Fry engineer at McDonalds. 4-8 and your happy!? Really?

Chyrene, Then by your assessment we were a pretty good Team this last decade. A loss is a Loss is loss. No Matter if its a 62-7 Rut in a playoff game, or a 1 point Field goal in the last 3 seconds . This team rarely puts themselves in the posistion to win convincingly.

Point in question.....we are Killing the Raiders 34- O. And they score 2 Touch downs in the last few minutes of the game , making it 34-14. WTF!? Thats Saprano playing Not to Lose. You do that when your up 34 in the 4th You can still pull out a win. Do it against a team like the Bronco's , you see what happened. I Was there.

Don't be fooled by 4 games. 4 GAMES and you want to win the Superbowl next year!?

Dude, get serious. 4 -8. thats a Horrible record. Next year won't be better then 9-7 again and again if things stay the same. I don't know about you but I'd like to actually win a playoff game or 2, make it to the big dance. Losing 10 in a row , and just picking up 4 out of the next 5 does not convince me of anything. I thought the same thing about the Phins 10 times in the last decade, I had that little glimmer of hope as well. Not anymore. I know better now.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/08/2011 08:57AM by TreasurecoastPhinsfan.

First of all Treasure, I never said that things should remain the same. I am SCREAMING for Sparano to be fired and I say we should try to get Luck, Barkley or Griffin if we can. What about says I want things to "stay the same?"

Yeah, a loss is a loss but there the similiarity ends. If you are losing because of your coaching, then the cure is simple, you get rid of your coaching. If you are losing because of inferior players, you have a lot beigger problem.

The WAY you determine what is the problem is to do things like look at the 7 losses IN A FU_KING ROW MIND YOU and then look at the 4-1 winning street and say DUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH, what's the difference, brain-dead!

Those two records are so RADICALLY DIFFERENT that they are NOT due to damn chance alone.

The difference is the coaching! Replace the coaching and you keep the 4-1 and jettison the 0-7.

And Puh-LEEZE get off the friggin last two Raider touchdowns. You know I put the FANATIC in fan. I didn't see the last two touchdowns because I switched the channel to root for the Giants to beat the Packer's unbeaten streak for the sake of the '72 Dolphins.

If for nothing else, you take your foot OFF THE GAS in a blowout like that so you don't get players injured.

What you ought to be f-ink complaining about is Sparano taking his foot off the pedal in those close games in which we were leading when we went 0-7 and we ended up losing.

First of all, no one is happy with 4-8, but don’t get childish about things.

And yea, the league is a passing league, but power football still has a place, and more important, a balanced attack is STILL the #1 ticket to consistent, winning football.

Our OL is one dominant RT away from being pretty scary. And if you add a dominant G into the mix and get a bit of good fortune with Jerry’s development and/or one of the core young players, the OL could be an absolute game winning force.

Keep in mind this is all predicated on the interplay between Moore playing efficient football and spreading the ball around AND Reggie Bush functioning behind a power OL and of course Thomas hammering up the middle. All you need to add to that mix is a pass catching TE and suddenly this O could be one of the best in the league – certainly one of the most balanced and difficult to defend.

IMO Moore looks a lot more promising than ANYONE we’ve had in the position since Marino. And if the kid can function at a high level in the right system, we’d be foolish not to make the last few investments necessary to support that eventuality.

Last, no matter who we have at QB, a rock solid OL is a huge benefit. Just imagine something like:

Long LT (R1 2008) - New Stud LG (R2 2012) - Pouncey C (R1 2011), Jerry RG (R3 2010), and New Stud Dominant RT (R1 2012) backed by: Incognito, Garner and whoever among the young developing guys stands out.

From what I’ve seen of Moore, and what Reggie has shown when he gets space, and Thomas when the hammy is 100%, THAT SHIT gets me freaking excited!

BNF.

montequi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Aqua&Orange Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > If I could go back to the 98 draft, I would
> have
> > given up the next 5 first round picks to get
> > Peyton Manning.
> >
> > Those 5 picks sucked for us anyways.
>
> Wouldn't that mean you'd give up Ricky Williams.
> As much as a pain he was, he gave us a couple
> amazing seasons. I wonder what it would have
> looked like with Ricky AND Peyton in the
> backfield!

Colts had that chance and took edgerin james instead. and it was the right move.

James was not the right move...while Ricky was a bit of a flake and let us down...he was twice the runner James was. The ONLY area where James was better was pass catching.

I agree that we can't mortgage the future of the team by giving away the farm to trade up...I want a QB just as bad as the rest of you but Moore is playing well...better in fact, than a few saviors in this league. Henne also deserves a shot to stay on this team and shouldn't simply be cast aside. He showed quite an improvement from 2010 and that alone means he should be here...but, he'd (Moore too IMHO) have to win his roster spot and shouldn't be gifted anything.

We need a new FS, a Speedy WR with size, a RT, a G, and a dominating LB...then dependin on Clay we might need a fast pass catching TE. All of that cannot be obtained by trading away picks.

I'll also go out on a limb here and say the team we have right now is better top to bottom than any team we've had since Marino retired...despite our current record.

Also, if we finish the season strong, Sparano will get my endorsement to keep his job for next year...not that my endorsement means anything mind you.

mortage the future for a POSSIBLE franchise QB?

I'm not on board with that.

How are Bradford and Newton working out for their teams? Looks like the still suck. The Dolphins are better then either of those teams with Moore.

Yo Aqua, I know you watched Moore in Carolina and didn’t like what you saw, but how can you call the dude a “turd” based on his performance THIS SEASON in Miami?

I guess you’re presold on the assumption a player like Moore can’t benefit from a different system and time to develop his skills – but why the rush to judgment?

We all want to win and see this franchise back on top. And we’re all thread bare with the absolute crap we’ve suffered under at the QB position. But Moore looks like really good news right now, and his continued emergence presents us with a lot of possibilities other than drafting a QB in R1 (especially mortgaging the future to do so).

If Moore plays solid football for the balance of the season, are you willing to give him a chance? And if so, shouldn’t we adjust our draft philosophy accordingly?

BNF.

A and O's hate of moore reminds me of finashady's hate of cam newton.
Aqua, I agree with you that we should not make him the long term QB here and we need to draft Barkley or Griffen if at all possibly, but Moore is far from a "turd" based on what he's done for US (not Carolina last year)

Berk, no, no no, Moore is playing really good for us. I have said that numerous times. He is much better than Henne. Thats not even debatable.

But, Im just dont want to put my trust in him for the future as our starter.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"