no that's wrong again. it's not strength of schedule at the beginning of the season (i.e., you opponents winning percentage from last season). it's the winning percentage after the 2011 season. obviously we won't know this till next year, but the afc east is a stronger division then the nfc west and afc south so more likely than not we will end up with a stronger opponents winning percentage.

It's not just opponents records that define SOS, btw. The opponents opponents record factors in as well. If you exclude division games, the AFC East plays the NFC East and AFC West this year. The AFC South plays the NFC South and AFC North.

The NFC East and AFC West are BOTH weaker divisions than the NFC South and AFC North. So, the tie-breaker between us and Indy could be very close. It's NOT just about the division each team is in.

I really don't know what this all means. Only that it still makes no sense if 2 teams go winless.

The Jaguars won tonight.

Thirteen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SOS for college teams involves your opponents'
> records as well as their opponents' records
> (opponents opponents records). I haven't found
> anything indicating how the NFL calculates it, but
> I'm guessing they don't do anything other than add
> up the opponents' records. I'm basing this on
> another tiebreaker the NFL uses to seed for the
> playoffs ("Playoffs?? Don't talk about --
> PLAYOFFS?!?" All right, bear with me) called
> "strength of victory", in which you simply add up
> the records of the opponents you've beaten.
>
> Right now, with Indy at 0-7 and the Rams and
> Dolphins at 0-6, here's how the opponents' records
> race shapes up. Miami is currently in the, uh,
> driver's seat, but there are still a lot of games
> to be played:
>
> Miami 22-16 (0.579)
> Indianapolis 29-18 (0.617)
> St. Louis 23-14 (0.622)


What worries me is that Indy has already played (LOST) one more game. So, what happens if you take away one team from Indy's calculation?

BTW: I'm NOT going to let this go. I have a Math degree, and one thing keeps bothering me. Statistically, SOS is only a valid form of measurement if the teams being evaluated have won at least 1 game. If you have winless teams, then from a practical and scientific perspective, SOS means nothing if calculated as you state above. Unless you add in point differential, then there is really no way of measuring the quality of 2 teams that lost every game.

SOS is one factor in the tiebreaker. If that doesn't break the tie they move on to other methods. It is not a mathematically perfect method of determing which team was better or worse. But it's not absurd or "unethical" or grounds for a lawsuit as you suggest.

Plus, I don't really see how it makes a difference how many wins "your" team (the team being evaluated) has when determining opponents strengh of schedule. Assume 2 teams are 0-5. One team played 5 teams that are 5-0. One team played 5 teams that are 1-4, their only win coming against the 0-5 team. I think from that, you can infer something about the relative merits of the 2 0-5 teams.

Why does it make such a big difference to you if the two 0-5 teams are 1-5 instead?

Let me put it in scientific terms. Let's say you have an endothermic reaction (meaning it uses energy rather than creating it). Let's say you measured 25 units of energy before the reaction and 0 after. Without evaluation the success of the actual endothermic reaction you can't determine how much energy it uses. What if there were 30 units of energy? I may have used all 30, or 28, or 25. You have to check the result of the reaction (how much of the reaction actually occurred).

It's the same with SOS. If someone has 0 wins, you have no idea who they can beat. A highschool team would go 0-16 against NFL-caliber teams as well...but if they were in a weaker division than Indy, does that mean Indy is the worse team? If you include point differential (just like if you check the success of the actual reaction above), then you have a more valid formula. But, if you ONLY use opponents record and that's it, then you have no idea who is the better, or worse, team. Hence...who deserves the #1 pick.

From what I read , The Rams are pretty happy with Sam Bradford and would deal Andrew Luck to the highest bidder. If Miami has the #2 or 3 draft Pick, I could see them Dealing For Luck and a shitload of picks. This would only work if we got the right type of new personel to go for such a move.

We wasted alot of #1's over the last 10 yrs, I'd give up the next 2 yrs and trade our current with the #1 if it meant scoring Luck.

I think our only real competition is Indy and they are clearly throwing in the Towel.

And Indy is still saddled with Manning's salary...and ego. I doubt they'll want to hand on to him if they get Luck...but Manning's presence itself could cause Luck to announce he doesn't want to play for Indy. Elway did it. Why not Luck?

montequi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Let me put it in scientific terms. Let's say you
> have an endothermic reaction (meaning it uses
> energy rather than creating it). Let's say you
> measured 25 units of energy before the reaction
> and 0 after. Without evaluation the success of
> the actual endothermic reaction you can't
> determine how much energy it uses. What if there
> were 30 units of energy? I may have used all 30,
> or 28, or 25. You have to check the result of the
> reaction (how much of the reaction actually
> occurred).
>
> It's the same with SOS. If someone has 0 wins,
> you have no idea who they can beat. A highschool
> team would go 0-16 against NFL-caliber teams as
> well...but if they were in a weaker division than
> Indy, does that mean Indy is the worse team? If
> you include point differential (just like if you
> check the success of the actual reaction above),
> then you have a more valid formula. But, if you
> ONLY use opponents record and that's it, then you
> have no idea who is the better, or worse, team.
> Hence...who deserves the #1 pick.


ok but you could say the same exact thing if both teams had 1 win.

The best thing that could happen is for us to get the number one pick overall therefore we can keep the $h!t load of picks.

i want the $h!t load of picks.

We need the $h!t load of picks.


PS> If we get the first pick in every round i promise you we are gonna hit on quite a few of them.

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> montequi Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Let me put it in scientific terms. Let's say
> you
> > have an endothermic reaction (meaning it uses
> > energy rather than creating it). Let's say you
> > measured 25 units of energy before the reaction
> > and 0 after. Without evaluation the success of
> > the actual endothermic reaction you can't
> > determine how much energy it uses. What if
> there
> > were 30 units of energy? I may have used all
> 30,
> > or 28, or 25. You have to check the result of
> the
> > reaction (how much of the reaction actually
> > occurred).
> >
> > It's the same with SOS. If someone has 0 wins,
> > you have no idea who they can beat. A
> highschool
> > team would go 0-16 against NFL-caliber teams as
> > well...but if they were in a weaker division
> than
> > Indy, does that mean Indy is the worse team?
> If
> > you include point differential (just like if
> you
> > check the success of the actual reaction
> above),
> > then you have a more valid formula. But, if
> you
> > ONLY use opponents record and that's it, then
> you
> > have no idea who is the better, or worse, team.
>
> > Hence...who deserves the #1 pick.
>
>
> ok but you could say the same exact thing if both
> teams had 1 win.


Not really. Who each of them beat would come into the equation. Then you can even include who the team they beat also beat or lost to...etc.. It just doesn't work if there are 0 wins.

I'll take your word for it b/c I am not a math guy, but it doesn't make any sense to me

samsam3738 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The best thing that could happen is for us to get
> the number one pick overall therefore we can keep
> the $h!t load of picks.
>
> i want the $h!t load of picks.
>
> We need the $h!t load of picks.
>
>
> PS> If we get the first pick in every round i
> promise you we are gonna hit on quite a few of
> them.




In a perfect world my friend. As a Dolphins fan we all know it is FAR FROM a perfect world. Just discussing Plan"B" and "C".

The dolphins will find a way to F**K the draft up......

chatafkup Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The dolphins will find a way to F**K the draft
> up......


Thats the Key to our Future.......NOT Andrew luck. We had the best Passer in History , and miss after miss of drafts for 17 years got us Squat. We had an 1800 Yd RB and we didn't even make the playoffs in 2001.

We need to hit on draft picks. we need a Coach who will LEAD this team and a GM who knows talent. hopefully that includes Luck, but it won't make us or break us.

Not getting a winning Admin WILL. Its Up to Ross. God help us.

Yeah i agree its been far from perfect...in dolphin land..



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/26/2011 03:49AM by samsam3738.

I think the NFL needs to also add a "strenght of stink" factor if there is a tie of winless teams.

Now let's all put our creative minds together and construct what the "strength of stink" factor should be made of.

Doug-THE-Dolfan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think the NFL needs to also add a "strenght of
> stink" factor if there is a tie of winless teams.
>
> Now let's all put our creative minds together and
> construct what the "strength of stink" factor
> should be made of.


That's easy, just print out our roster.

JC Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Doug-THE-Dolfan Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I think the NFL needs to also add a "strenght
> of
> > stink" factor if there is a tie of winless
> teams.
> >
> > Now let's all put our creative minds together
> and
> > construct what the "strength of stink" factor
> > should be made of.
>
>
> That's easy, just print out our roster.


Don't forget to add all the coaches name, even strenghening coach, equipment coach president vice precident secretary of state..........waterboy.........mascot......secretary of treasury.............................

How about that they have PEYTON F***ing Manning. We have Chad henne.

If that doesn't do it , nothing will.

TreasurecoastPhinsfan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How about that they have PEYTON F***ing Manning.
> We have Chad henne.
>
> If that doesn't do it , nothing will.


Yeah but our team is in "paradise".