ChyrenB Wrote:
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> Moreover, I have begun to hear some of you Luck
> people say already that he's gonna need three
> years.
>
Seriously? I haven't seen that, but I've had trouble fishing through all the Luck posts. If Luck truly needs 3 years, then there's no way he's as good as people are making him up to be. If Rothlisberger, Ryan, and Flacco could be successful their rookie years...if Peyton Manning and Marino could be as successful as they were their 2nd year... then ANY QB that REQUIRES 3 years is NOT an all-world QB!!

luck won't need 3 years. He'll either show he has the goods in his first year, or not at all. only around these parts do people think a QB needs 3 years to show they will be any good.

Chyren, are you saying we shouldn't draft Luck at all, or just not trade up to get him?

ChyrenB Wrote:
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> Come, Monte, don't disappoint me and come out of
> the closet as one of those
> "the-quarterback-can-win-every-game-by-himself
> people."

Not every game, no, but QBs CAN be the key to winning games! They have the ball in their hands more than any other player on the field.

Seriously, if we draft Luck, I fully expect him to START his rookie year. If we draft him #1 and don't expect that of him, then it would be a wasted pick.

Depends on the team the QB is on, berk!

Dammit, I can't seem to get that through to you guys.

If he's on at least an average team, a great QB will start paying dividends immediately.

If he's on a sucky team, one probably will not notice a difference at all until they get better and then he'll need every bit of the three years to learn while not getting killed before he does.

Dolphaholic, I am saying that this team is in no position to draft Luck even if we got the number 1 pick (because with trading that pick we could transform the team into one that can go to the SuperBowl with Henne and win it).

I am saying, Dolphaholic, and PREDICTING, that if we draft Luck, he alone will be unable to do anything to help this team and we will continue to suck for the next three to five years EVEN IF HE IS GREAT!.......which is never a sure thing.

Every team that takes a QB that high sucks Chyren, didn't Atlanta suck when they took Ryan? Didn't they just win 13 games a mere 3 yrs later? If we have a chance to draft Luck strait up and pass, it will be franchise suicide IMO.

chyren we've been trying to cram an "average" QB into a "good" team for forever, and it's never worked. particularly because the "average" QBs have been bad and the "good" team has been average (at best).

let's try the opposite---a great QB and build around HIM, let him elevate the supporting cast. you think Tom Brady's offense is anywhere near as good without him? now stick brady on our offense and see what happens.

ChyrenB Wrote:
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>
> Come, Monte, don't disappoint me and come out of
> the closet as one of those
> "the-quarterback-can-win-every-game-by-himself
> people."


I would like to know who is saying that a qb can win a game singlehanded.

Stop twisting things around.

We stink and we are probably going to draft really high....We just want them to take the best available QB for once.

dolphaholic Wrote:
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> Every team that takes a QB that high sucks Chyren,

RESPONSE: Good point.

> didn't Atlanta suck when they took Ryan?
> Didn't
> they just win 13 games a mere 3 yrs later?

RESPONSE: Wait, where did Michael Vick fit in there?

If we
> have a chance to draft Luck strait up and pass, it
> will be franchise suicide IMO.

RESPONSE: Well, we disagree. IMO, we will continue to suck if we draft Luck because we won't be able to compliment him with what he (or any other great Q would need.

I don't know why I can't think of any great QBs since the 1960's that were on sucky teams and never went anywhere but maybe someone will help me out.

ChyrenB Wrote:
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> berkeley223 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > chyren we've been trying to cram an "average"
> QB
> > into a "good" team for forever, and it's never
> > worked. particularly because the "average" QBs
> > have been bad and the "good" team has been
> average
> > (at best).
>
> RESPONSE: Just bad timing. If Luck is what you
> say he is (though I doubt it), I'd bet that if he
> had been drafted instead of Henne, he probably
> would have taken us to the SuperBowl on these
> "average" or "good" teams.
>
Then I don't think we are in disagreement at all. I too think that if we had a great QB we'd have been contenders the past few years. That's why I want one!

Chyren,

Name me 1 all-time great QB who was on a sucky team his entire career and the team never became a contender.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

Phinsfan2 Wrote:
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> dolphaholic Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Every team that takes a QB that high sucks
> Chyren,
> > didn't Atlanta suck when they took Ryan? Didn't
> > they just win 13 games a mere 3 yrs later? If
> we
> > have a chance to draft Luck strait up and pass,
> it
> > will be franchise suicide IMO.
>
>
> He doesn't get that dolphaholic.
>
> And its not just Ryan. Nearly EVERY QB that is
> picked at the top of the draft (top 5) went to a
> crappy team.
>
> And many of those teams have built quality teams
> around those players in a fairly short period of
> time 2 or 3 years.
>
> Ryan is one. Matt Stafford another. Philip
> Rivers and Eli Manning as well.
>
> Sure there are QB's that fail (Jamarcus Russell,
> Alex Smith, David Carr) but none of them were
> can't miss guys.
>
> That list has done even better: Peyton Manning,
> Troy Aikman and John Elway are the guys mentioned
> in comparison to Andrew Luck. All of them were
> "can't miss" fist picks who went to multiple Super
> Bowls and rank among the best to ever play the
> position.
>
> Passing on a guy like that in favor of a caretaker
> Qb and using the #1 pick on a lineman just makes
> no sense unless you just don't believe he's that
> good.
>
> If you think he'll fail in the NFL (ala Russell,
> Smith, Carr) then you don't draft him. But
> that's based on a talent evaluation.
>
> If you think he's the goods, or any QB is the
> goods, and you don't already have a franchise QB,
> then you are nuts to pass on him if you have the
> opportunity to select him. That's the
> philosophical choice for anyone that understands
> just how important the QB position has become over
> the last 25 years.
>
> It really comes down to this: If you have a
> crappy enough team to pick #1-#5 then you have
> MANY needs throughout your roster. And its far
> far easier to find quality players at every other
> position in rounds 2-7, and in free agency, than
> it is an elite QB.


I agree 10000%

Great QB's will make a franchise competitive.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

808phan Wrote:
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> And that A&O is exactly why I'm on the SFL
> bandwagon.
>
> But someone here pointed out that if this team
> ended up with the 1st pick of the draft, the front
> office would probably trade down for more draft
> picks & pass him up. And you know what? The
> stupidity of this front office wouldn't surprise
> me at all.


BINGO!!!!!!!!!

Aqua&Orange Wrote:
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> Chyren,
>
> Name me 1 all-time great QB who was on a sucky
> team his entire career and the team never became a
> contender.

Dan Fouts

montequi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Aqua&Orange Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Chyren,
> >
> > Name me 1 all-time great QB who was on a sucky
> > team his entire career and the team never became
> a
> > contender.
>
> Dan Fouts


&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
Disagree. Fouts led the Chargers to multiple playoff appearances and 2 Conference Championships.

The Chargers were a very, very good team.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

Aqua&Orange Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> montequi Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Aqua&Orange Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Chyren,
> > >
> > > Name me 1 all-time great QB who was on a
> sucky
> > > team his entire career and the team never
> became
> > a
> > > contender.
> >
> > Dan Fouts
>
>
> &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
> Disagree. Fouts led the Chargers to multiple
> playoff appearances and 2 Conference
> Championships.
>
> The Chargers were a very, very good team.

You mean Conference Championship GAMES. Fouts NEVER won a Conference Championship, and I'd argue they were never really contenders.

Just sayin!