I agree, a free market is entirely possible as well, Visioning the NFL operating without a draft in a complete free market, is no more or less a dream, then the idea, you claim is highly unlikely and that of winning the 200 million dollar lottery..
Speculation is everywhere and to discredit its possiblities and insult Treasure they way it was going on in the above post, because you all dont want to ackonowledge it being a possibility, I find like a bully trying to steal a kids lunch money for a protection tax..lol...

Treasure doesnt have the best explanations of business rights and labor disputes but he was not incorrect in suggesting the owners could get another draft or negotiate with someone else...

Here is why Andrew Luck would do it, becasue he thinks whatever deals the NFLPA might agree to is going to hurt him financially. The rookies are targerts by both sides becasue they have the least amount of influence at this point, so why would'nt the upcoming class realize that, organize and try and have a say or better their position, not feeling like the NFLPA is fairly representing them..
Like i said early everything is plausible in a labor dispute, it just all depends on what hand you want to play and what hand the otherside wants to play, unfortunately court rooms are not the only place to gain leverage in a labor dispute... WOuld it be worth it, probably not, but as we all agree, nothing that is going on is worth it to us fans...

Phinsfan2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Crowder52 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Actually a splinter group of profesionals from
> > Canada or Arena or even ex NFLPA members could
> > organize unionize and negotiate with the owners
> to
> > fullfill a collective players agreement...
>
>
> But then they have to sell it to the rest of the
> players. How do you suppose they'll pull that
> off?
>
>
> I'll say it again. The NFL has grown to the
> point it has since it became a monopoly. It
> became a monopoly with the death of the USFL and
> the NFL's subsequent movement towards free agency
> and CBA's that created a work environment where
> the idea of a competing league became
> unsustainable.

FIrst off it would be much easier to pull off then a new group of billionaires creating another league that favors the players more.

Secondly there are other leagues still Arena and Canada, etc. Some players have already suggested that they might go get a job in arena. The players want their cake and eat it to, They want the leauge that makes them the most money and the best deal, That is overly optimistic. The debts and liabilities have grown tremndously since the last CBA, and the players failure to acknowledge that is their biggest problem... Reality is reality, even if theirleader is trying to convince the players otherwise....It is ultimately a misstep. If the players were allowed to digest the facts themselves, a majority would feel much different about it...Misinformation only last so long when trying to hold a group together, eventually the misimformation will be the ammunition that minimizes the leadership and solidarity....

Phinfans, I agree with Doty in theory, on the interest free loan, if you were negotiating for others and you did something that speicifically benefited yourself, when you were suppose to be an honest broker and do what is best for the group as a hole, that is wrong. It all depends to me if they are partners or employees. Becasue an owner of a business has the right to do what is best for themself and not the employees, it happens all the time when business's get sold... So it would all depend I guess legally if they were considered partners at least to me ethically.....
I see this type of thing all the time, with majority and minority partnerships, not all the time does the majority partner act in the best interest of the partnership, even though they are required to do so by law.... SO minority partners have to address the issues and should if ethical and legal boundaries were crossed without a doubt. Unfortunately there is a large grey area in proving what is or isnt in the best interest of the group.. FOr istnace a mjority owenr could withold all income from the entire partnership for long periods of times with the minority partners being able to do anything about it. With just the position of that is what is best for the company, and who can argue that stockpiling money isnt good for any company....lol... SO it is all up to the agreements, but in theory I disagree with what he owners did in the TV case... But I also disagree with alot of the players tactics as well, so in a street fight it is hard to point fingers...

Phinsfan2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------


> Why is it overly optimistic to want to get the
> best deal you can for your services?


If it weakens and puts at risk the validity , and the long term solubility of the organization paying you for those services. You are risking the long term success for a maximum short term gain. That is part of the problem, the players by nature are only thinking short term and the owners long term.. If the short sighted players ran the show, it would be awful for the NFL... The keepers of the leauge are the owners, not the players, the ones that care about its future are obviously the owners not the players, by the very longevity of being involved.. The avg ownership last more then 5 times that of the avg players involvement....

Phinfans, you all went after Treasure on this before he went after you, You called him a communist others called him a moron.....
IMO, Threads deteriorate when people start insulting others, and you guys share the blame on this one...
Once people call someone else negative names at any level, you should expect the BS and name calling to escalate in severity as it has... Dont attack others!

I disagree with Treasure for reacting that way, but i disagree with how you all treated Treasure in this post as well.
Treasure be the bigger man and dont respond with name calling, deescalate the argument with compliments and understanding of the otehrs positions.. It will look well upon your character.. Continued name calling will not..

Phinsfan2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I suppose the best way to avoid that happening
> would be for every business to open the books to
> prospective employees so the employees can clearly
> see what is a healthy amount to ask for from their
> prospective employer.
>
> Oh wait...
>

You honestly believe every business should open their books to their employees. That seems a bit over the top for American values... but maybe I am just in the twilight zone....

Phinsfan2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> A fair point Crowder.


I respect you for making that post... In order for this to continue to be a cool community. We have to as a group promote, that it is not cool to attack or insult commenters. But it is fine to respectfully challenge and attack their ideas. Take the personal stuff out of it. We are all good people that love the Dolphins and Football, we all have different ideas on various issues for various reason and perspective insight. As a group our thougts and analysis are powerful because of that very same explanation, that is important for us to respect..To make it a productive and positive experience for everybody, I believe that it all breaks down to the respect we give each other. I am just as guilty of breaking down the communication with name calling and insults at times, but if I do expect you all to call me out... Challenge actions, perspective or ideas but not people.