I'm gettin drunk tomorrow then.

will do.

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "To move a franchise from one generation to
> another, the government has a 45 percent tax on
> the value of the shares, forcing the younger
> generation to borrow millions to preserve the
> legacy and maintain franchise stability."
>
> Damn! I'm a Democrat but that ain't the
> government "wetting their beaks" or "getting a
> taste of the action" as the Mafia puts it, but
> that's downright confiscation!
>
> That's a damn partner who ain't doing nothing but
> taking. AND HE'S TAKING HALF!
>
> In the good ole days of the protection rackets,
> the mob would only take 10% or below.
>
> They had the decency or at least common sense to
> know if you force the guy to give up half of his
> take to you, why should he stay in business?
>
> That's incredible.

If you got rid of the estate tax, the owners probably wouldnt need nearly as much in the new CBA.
Yep, why dont you start the PAC, Democrats against the estate tax. It is one of the worst things going in our government. Your boy Obama, aint coming off that though, I promise you that....Most people dont even understand the goverment does this to people. If you ask a majority of americans if they disagree with the estate tax they would tell you yes...The last guy to support doing away with the death tax was GWB... Then his arrogance got in the way, and he pissed to many people off before he got a chance to do away with it.... Think about it, every 15 or 20 years, these franchise have to give 45% of the teams value in cash to the government within 360 days to 500 days of transfer or death of owner, on top of all the other taxes they have paid the franchise every year.... After the NFL gets fixed we should work on fixing our people's agreement with our goverment...lol
But I a

I doubt 99% of americans will ever pay the estate tax because they don't have nearly enough money in their estate to be taxed. but most people are far too stupid to even understand that, so you get all of these yahoos up in arms about the "death tax." now crowder, before you take offense, I am not referring to you, I am sure you understand that something like 5-10 million can be passed down tax free after death, and you are merely against all taxes as a matter of principle (particularly on the wealthy). but for everyone else---let's take to the streets so paris hilton doesn't have to pay taxes when her parents croak!!

I am not taking offense, I am against unfair taxes, not taxes..and I believe it is more like 2 million is exempt on the estate tax.
DO you think it was fair that Joe Robbie's family lost almost everything because of it....
You are right I dont agree with it in principle. I believe in a flat tax, that way everybody is taxed equal percentage. I believe in equal treament of all individuals(what a novel idea)
I am against because, the people have already been taxed on the money. They were taxed when they earned the money, they were taxed on the owenrship of the property or property taxes. They paid states sales tax on items sold. And now to wipe them out, you will be taxed 45 percent upon your death... I think it is a crock. We might as well, just become socialist....
You claim just because people are rich they dont deserve a fair shake... And you use the most despised obnoxious rich person in paris hilton to make your point....lol



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/2011 04:22AM by Crowder52.

I agree with you there ghoti

ghotirule Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You claim just because people are rich they dont
> deserve a fair shake...
>
> OK, I'll give the rich no estate taxes if they
> give me "too big to fail" status.

RESPONSE: I agree fully. However, I'd have sensible estate taxes such as 10% on any estate more than 2 mil. But no "too big to fail" status on businesses.

When the home real estate market was going bust, the problem with the Bush-Obama solution was that they floated loans to the same segment of the economy that created the crisis by making the same mistake that was made in the boom of the 1920's PRIOR to the stock market crash. That mistake was the belief that stock had any inherent value other than what the value was in the MINDS of the holders of the stock.

Homes are the same way. Yeah, you can strip down the wood, pipes, and carpets and derive a minimal value but the "value" of a home is only what people think it is. The banks lent money to people who were bad risks on the assumption that if they failed to pay, the home could always sell and home prices skyrocketing. I warned my wife and friends and anyone who would listen that an economic crisis that would rival the Great Depression was coming because of this idiotic lending in the real estate business. It came.

Then Obama and Bush, instead of creating a Roosevelt type program where the huge sum set aside by Congress would be accessible ONLY TO THE HOMEOWNERS TO BORROW (and that the homeowners who shouldn't have borrowed in the first place would be denied access to it), they stupidly gave the money to the lenders, the same people who, along with the people who shouldn't have asked for the loans in the first place, created the problem.

>
> I want the government to create convoluted
> loopholes that give me a tax return that is
> greater than the taxes I pay. And for gods sake,
> send me a check every time I lose money in the
> stock market!

RESPONSE: Well, you'd have to show me this unless you are referring to the fact that businesses can shift tax breaks to overcome tax liabilities of various companies owned by the same conglomerate.

>
> Once these policies are in place, I'd be glad to
> have anyone with more than a $5M estate not pay
> taxes. But until then, they've got to return what
> they stole when they die.

RESPONSE: Oh, they should be taxed but 45% is too much.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/2011 09:59AM by ChyrenB.

my point I was agreeing with is that people who have $10mm to pass on to their kids do not pay taxes the same way as the peons. Through loopholes, etc they don't the same percentage of taxes on their income as a middle class person. Did they "steal" their money? No (although some who profited during the bubble probably did in a sense) but many of those people didn't work hard for it either, they got huge bonuses for working as traders on wall street, or inherited it, etc. personally I am OK with people making $10mm+ being taxed on inheritance. One of the things this country was founded on was getting rid of the artistrocatic class who passed on money and title down to their kids in perpetuity. An estate tax is consistent with the principal---particularly one that EXEMPTS the first 5-10mm of the estate. I.e., this exempts 99% of the country. Further, with smart estate planning, you can pass your money on without being taxed (i.e., in trusts, etc). The Robbies were actually victims of poor estate planning more than anything else/

why are you calling me psychotic? you got all up in arms about something much more benign that I wrote in another post, and now you're stooping to name calling. obviously ghoti was making a rhetorical point. what i agree with is it is incredibly unfair that individuals who caused the financial meltdown, got bailed out by the gov't (socialism), kept their jobs, and got millions in bonuses. at a minimum, I think it is perfectly fair for them to get taxed on the money when they try to pass it down to muffy and buffy.

The system, means you want the government to inheirt 45 percent of every large company in the US. For what? It is a shame IMO, that these family owned businesses, are broken up and destroyed by the governments tyranical ways. I think it is awful.... If you guys were in the position of these people I think you would have different thoughts about it... But you are not, so it doesn't touch you, let somebody else pay the price, who cares...... That is selfish. It easy to always tell the other guy to pay the price, but that doesnt make it right, and you can justify it by saying they are all criminals who stole money... I get it... Sad but I get it.

by the way, I stand to lose $$ as a result of the estate tax. so I'm not just whistling dixie here. And the gov't isn't taxing 45% of "these family owned" business. that's a total myth that "small businesses" are paying "the death tax." correct me it I am wrong, but we are talking about a tax on individuals, not businesses. businesses do not "die" and they do not have offspring so they are not paying estate taxes. We are basically talking about a minuscule percentage of very very wealthy indivdulas who have to pay taxes on money they leave to their kids when they die (again they can get around this easily but setting up tax-free trusts). So sorry I am not up in arms or losing any sleep over it---though personally I would probably end up better off if the tax was lower or done away with altogether. I am sure these rich people could give 2 sh*ts about the taxes you pay, by the way....

No you are wrong Berk, the government values all properties, and business's. Give it an appraised value. Everything over 2 million is taxed at 45 percent. Liquid or not. But the government wants liquid, so it puts the families in fire sales situations. Like what happen to the robbie family. They valued the team at a certain number everything over 2 million the robbies had to pay. I believe the team was valued at 100 and something million, the government wanted over 60 in cash, The robbies didnt have that type of liquid, so they were forced to firesale the company to Wayne for half its value, or the government would have seized or auctioned the assett... It is shameless



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/2011 10:48AM by Crowder52.

Old farm families that own lots of land, are crippled by this, becasue they have land value, but not liquid value of the land or nowhere near it... so families lose land that have been in generations for years becasue of the estate tax....

Berk- sorry if you think I was calling you psychotic, I wasnt, I was saying the idea of what Ghoti was stating that I quoted above was psychotic, and you blanket agreed to his post. Sorry if it was mistaken, I have respect for how you handle yourself and your intellect and obvious contributions to the site.

hey no worries crowder. we need this lockout to end so we can get back to talking about football and move away from this political stuff!!

Yeah, we need to talk about a football subject that is not so controversial and does not stir up such bitter emotions like.......the draft and whether we were stupid for passing up on Ingram and Mallett....yeah, that's the ticket...wait...

Was this guys math off again, because I'm still living.......just checking

You too. I thought I must have been one of the damned because I had not been "raptured out."

Well, I'm glad I didn't sell all my belongings.

Hey.....if you really believe, what good is money to you after the rapture?