Not sure I agree with you about the diff between Schaub and Ryan Phinsfan, I'm not saying Schaub is a better QB, but diff is miniscule.

"Let me ask you this...If John Elway, or Dan Marino were in this draft....would you "sell the farm" to move up to get them?"

Of course I would, but i'd also take Romo (FA), Warner (FA), Schaub (3rd) and Brady (6th) for next to nothing as well....hell i'd even take Fitzpatrick (7th) right now. Look I agree, at worse we need to bring in some comp to replace or push Henne and at best we need to draft someone high in the 1st rd, I also agree the higher you take a QB the better the chance is you'll get a good one. I dont agree we need to panic and trade away a bunch of must needed picks right now to do that. If we're sitting at 15 and Cam Newton (or any of the other 3 that the scouts deem worthy) is available at 10 or 11 then I say go for it, but IMO dont try to get from 15 to 5 to do it (unless you get a gift like the Jets did for Sanchez). If we were only a QB away from contending then I might be more inclined to do so, but we have way too many holes on OFF to fill.

> PhinFans2 is living in a homeless shelter
> discussing his plans to buy the Sears towers with
> the other residents who are stealing glances at
> each other when he is not looking.

Now Bob, that's not nice. Why are you picking a fight

You must admit Phinsfan, that was pretty funny though.

To me, two situations are instructive. First, if there is a "can't-miss" franchise QB and we have the opportunity, go get him. But-it isn't that easy. San Diego and Indianapolis had that choice only a few years ago. Do we take Manning or Leaf? Both fit the "can't-miss" description at the time. One lucky team goes on to be a perennial contender and one gets back on the merry-go-round after setting their franchise back at least five years. With the benefit of 12 years of hindsight, the idiosyncracies that derailed Leaf's career are obvious, but they weren't then. So a "can't miss" franchise guy might very well not be.
The other situation is the one in Detroit with Matt Stafford. If you've seen this kid play, you know he can be something special. With Calvin Johnson, he has somebody to throw to. He has the talent and fire, and his teammates know it. The question is, can Detroit keep him alive long enough to build a team to support him, and will he still have enough confidence to take advantage of it when-and if-they do? Will he even be able to walk?
I think you can win with a less than elite QB if you have a solid enough infrastructure for him to work with- witness the 2000 Baltimore Ravens and Trent Dilfer.
I have always thought-and probably always will think-that the lines are the real heart of a football team.

Rick

Excellent points Rick. QB's CAN be ruined if they are put on bad teams from the beginning and forced to try to product. I still think David Carr would have been an excellent QB if not for the fact that he was a sitting duck for years behind that Houston O-Line. Now he's just a shadow of his former self.

I've been a bad, bad, boy.---Elmer Fudd.

Phinsfan2 Wrote:
------------------------------------------
And your point is?

> Troy Aikman: 1-15
The Hershell Walker trade saved Aikman, as Dallas was able to build a monster team in a very short period of time. This is an enigma. I don't recall that kind of trade happening before or since in the NFL.

> Vinny Testaverde: 4-11
I don't consider Vinny's career that successful. What passing records does he hold? What Superbowls did he play in? He's a great example of a QB resurrecting their career later in life.

> Steve Young: 2-14
He changed teams just in time to be successful, or he'd have been wasted in Tampa just like Carr.

> Peyton manning: 3-13
It was one year for Manning. The following year he was 13-3 and won the AFC East. The Colts already had a great O-Line. 2 years in a row they drafted a great QB and RB. That's all they needed to build a monster offense. We're missing a few more parts.

Your post (Phinsfan2 in response to Montequi) is proof that it does happen, I just don't think it happens very often. The odds against such an outcome, I think, preclude it.

Rick



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/19/2010 09:38AM by dolphan4545.

I think the key factor would be, can you protect an Elite Qb. IF you cant, it is a bad idea to draft one to get killed. Injury and nurture is a big factor in whether or not you Qb can become an Elite QB.
I say this because, look at Stafford, him getting the crap knocked out of him and injuries are limited his chances of becoming elite. TIm Couch, got creamed like no one before him, and that lack of proper nurture and protection all but sealed his fate as an NFL QB.
In our situation, in 08, drafting Ryan before we had anyone to protect his blindside is a bad idea. Before we had Jake Long, we had the forever search for a Left tackle, to replace Webb. We got him.
As I said before, picking an elite QB is tough, and risking everything on a top pick for one, can put your franchise back years if it doesnt pan out.
IMO, Mark Sanchez was and is not an Elite QB, yet the JETS saw him as one, traded up at a heavy price and paid him top dollar. Is he any better then Henne? Yet we didnt trade up, didnt risk much, didnt pay much, and at this point have an no worse QB then the Jets have but for alot less, in draft, in risk and in pay.

> Crowder52 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> > IMO, Mark Sanchez was and is not an Elite QB,
> yet
> > the JETS saw him as one, traded up at a heavy
> > price and paid him top dollar. Is he any better
> > then Henne? Yet we didnt trade up, didnt risk
> > much, didnt pay much, and at this point have an
> no
> > worse QB then the Jets have but for alot less,
> in
> > draft, in risk and in pay.


I'm sorry, what kind of thinking is this?!? Are we talking football here or 401K?!? Why WOULD IT PLEASE ANY FAN TO SAY 'We didn't pay as much for our sucky QB as another team did for theirs'?!?! Jeez!

>ChyrenB Wrote: WITH A FIRST ROUND DRAFT CHOICE. OL, WR, DB are higher >priorities.

>KB Wrote: Been there, done that, didn't work. How much
>better are we now than before we drafted Carey,
>Brown, Long, Davis, Ginn and Odrick?

>Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and
>expecting different results - Einstein.

I'm sure the Atlanta Falcons appreciate us drafting Jake Long instead of Matt Ryan, as it appears that they're on their way to a Super Bowl now.

This franchise is a classic display of repeated epic failure.

And is Matty doing it all by himself? Boy! We DID make a mistake not drafting him if he's winning in Atlanta all by himself.

Well they sucked as much as we did when they drafted him instead of us.

edit: And they don't have Jake long, either.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/19/2010 09:38PM by 808phan.

Time to lose the rest of the season

dolfan1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Time to lose the rest of the season


Wow, didn't see that coming.

Phinsfan2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Leon In Denver Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The only team I remember being a SB contender
> over
> > the last decade is NE and they always have a
> great
> > TEAM.
> >
> > Who else is a SB contender year in and year
> out?
> > The Steelers? Not. Let's see, Saints? Not. Uh,
> > Vikings? Not. Uh Chargers? Not.
> >
> > I can't think of anyone else. Oh of coarse,
> > Giants, Not. Cowboys, Not.
> > 9ers, yup their old teams yup they had a really
> > great team didn't they.
>
> Since some of them acquired their top level (over
> the past 5 years), off the top of my head... NYG,
> NE, INDY, PITT, PHILLY have all averaged at least
> 10 wins a season. I think SD might be in that
> category as will considering that Rivers is like
> 22-1 in the nmonth of decemeber.
>
> What do all those teams have in common?

They have all found a way to keep rebuilding their teams year in and year out so they can compete for a playoff spot?

I didn’t like Matty Ice coming out of BC (puke) but there’s no denying what the kid has produced in the NFL. But of course some would say that’s only because of blah blah blah.

Well that “argument” gets rancid really quick because you could say the same about any QB in any era et cetera. For example, Danny was great only because he had blah blah blah and Shula on the back 9. Really?

It’s the players who play. And believe it or not there are different skill levels and some dudes (at Q can perform and most cannot.

Belittling and/or discounting Matt Ryan or anyone else doesn’t solve our core issue.

Wayne H is a fantastic businessman. He got top dollar for a floundering NFL team. to him for a smart business decision.

Ross now needs to spend big bucks to right the ship, he will because he loves celebrity and the limelight.