BigNastyFish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> One other thing about your point Victor -- great
> teams don't pass on top-shelf talent QB's like we
> did with Ryan...Because they don't come along very
> often.
>
> Now that's what I'm talking about!

Then, of course, there are teams that THOUGHT they were getting top-shelf talent QB's but it didn't work out that way:

Jeff George
Tim Couch
Jamarcus Russell
Ryan Leaf
and so on...and so on

BigNastyFish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> (R/J)ay Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Yeah let's blame a DB for dropping an INT, even
> > though he played a very good game and the
> defense
> > held the Browns to just 13 points despite 6
> gifted
> > points off of INTs.
> >
> > Meanwhile the guy who puts up a 37 passer
> rating
> > against a bad pass defense is okay. Let's lay
> > off. He's not that bad. He's just lousy.
>
> Dude, you SMOKED HIS ASS! Someone got OWNED!
>

RESPONSE: Been away since my last post.

R/Jay you walked in on somebody else's argument. The FIRST comment was that Henne singlehandedly LOST the game. If you look at ONE SINGLE PLAY that lost the game, it would not be Henne's throw behind Hartline. That came early in the game and the Browns did not convert it into points. It wasn't the third interception because it came off a careen.

If you want to look at ONE SINGLE PLAY, it was that dropped interception because the score was 10-10 and there was two minutes left in the game and Nolan had nobody between him and the end zone.

This is the funny thing about a board like this. People read something get offended and don't bother to go back and track the comment.


R/Jay if you had tracked the comment, then you would have realized that persons A said "Henne is responsible for losing the game" and my post merely said "No. And if you want to look at one single play it is the interception drop by Nolan."

Am I saying Nolan lost the game for us. No. If I were to say what lost the game I would say putting in the Wildcat and breaking our momentum time and time again after we get into the redzone.

So don't say to me "Oh... You're blaming it all on Nolan." I'm saying if you are looking for a single scapegoat there are better places to look.

NastyFish, you said that if Nolan had caught that interception then it would have only resulted in overtime.

You are wrong and you are basing that comment on the mistaken belief that a field goal at that point would have made the score 13-13.

That interception would have come when the score was 10-10 and had Nolan not scored a touchdown on it (he had no one in front of him), we would have done the same thing that Cleveland did, run the clock down and kick the winning field goal making it 13-10 in OUR FAVOR.

561_Dolphins Wrote:
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> > ...and thats just "IF" Henne played AN AVERAGE
> game like I said

RESPONSE: Henne's poor rating is based on the three interceptions. The second one is the one that I said WTF on. That was stupid, bird-brained, He threw into triple coverage and was definitely a regression from him.

The first interception I do not blame him for. I blame people like you guys. Hartline has been letting pass after pass bounce off his hands week after week. He can't catch a pass and Henne gets blamed.

Henne was bound to throw it soft. Had Henne thrown it where the Henne of the beginning of the season threw it, then one of two things would have happened Option 1 It would have been overthrown Option 2 (more likely) It would have bounced off Hartline's hands.

Hartline is where he should be On IR.

The third interception was a fluke.

Leon In Denver Wrote:
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> "You demand for me to admit that Henne LOST the
> game. But logically you should first place your
> finger on the PRECISE REASON OR POINT IN THE GAME
> where Henne ACTUALLY LOST THE GAME.
>
> Will you please do that for me????? "
>
> I'll do it for you ChyrenB.
>
> Henne badly under threw Hartline when he was a
> good 3 to 5 yards behind the defender.

RESPONSE: Actually Leon, Hartline was IN FRONT of the defender and not behind. Your statement would mean that the interception did not occur. Just a technical point.

There are
> at least 20 QBs in this league that make that
> throw every time. That is 7 points and a pick.
> That play could have won the game.

RESPONSE: Are you talking about the first interception or another play.

When you say won the game, you must be talking about a play AT THE END OF THE GAME. If so, then it was not an interception at all. And to argue the point, as others have pointed out, if you are talking about an incompletion, then you have to factor in the pass blocking, a change in the route, a misunderstanding of the route betweeen QB and receiver and a million other things.

If you are talking about that first interception, however, then I wholeheartedly agree that 20 of the other 31 NFL quarterbacks would have made that throw.

However LOL ... LOL ..... LOL.......LOL.... the ball would have been INCOMPLETE because HARTLINE WOULD HAVE LET IT BOUNCE OFF HIS HANDS. And 20 of the other 31 quarterbacks who had the history with Hartline might have been frustrated like Henne and tried to soft throw it.

>
> Another pick that killed the drive where he threw
> into triple coverage. Very poor decision period.
> Another killed drive.

RESPONSE: Complete agreement. Dumb as hell.

>
> Face it, Henne had a very bad game and you need to
> stop defending him.

RESPONSE: Did he have a bad game? Yes. Is it fair to lay the loss at his door or even say he was the "main reason" for the loss. Hell no! I'd point to running the wildcat before that.

And no one has answered my point that when the Dolphins get within the 30 yard line and they run two plays with the wildcat and then have to rely on Henne to bail them out on third down, HOW IN THE HELL IS IT FAIR TO BLAME HIM FOR THE TEAM HAVING TO SETTLE FOR FIELD GOAL ATTEMPTS?

I have reserved my opinions
> about Henne most of this season. I know that
> Henning and his play calling and also the offense
> philosophy have something to do with it, but Henne
> has a long way to go to become "Our" QB. Maybe he
> will. At least I hope so cause I doubt we draft
> that QB in 2011.

RESPONSE: I say that Henne very well may NOT be anybody's quarterback of the future. I'm just trying to make one point and I am getting frustrated that no one seems to get it with the ironic exception of PhinFans2.

THat point is that there are so many defects on this team and in its coaching that it is difficult to tell given those defects.

I'm not saying that he needs to have a perfect team behind him. I would just settle for a team that DID NOT run the wildcat and receivers who can catch CANNONBALLS because............dammit, Henne is a cannonball passer.

BigNastyFish Wrote:
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> Phinsfan2 you make a rational point regarding the
> "hating."
>
> I think people miss the obvious around here in
> many ways. Put simply, we have to game plan AROUND
> Henne as opposed somehow expecting him to carry
> the team – the way a real legit QB can.


RESPONSE: Your points below are inaccurate. You are right that we have to game plan "around" Henne. WE HAVE TO ACCOUNT FOR THE FACT THAT WE HAVE RECEIVERS WHO HAVE MANAGED TO GO FROM PEE WEE FOOTBALL TO THE PROS AND NOT BE ABLE TO CATCH A HOT BALL.


It’s
> impossible to formulate a winning offensive game
> strategy when you KNOW your QB is going to be (a)
> inconsistent, and (b) prone to making bad
> decisions that put your team in a losing
> situation.

RESPONSE: Untrue absolutely. His second interception against Cleveland was a bad, stupid, idiotic throw and supports your point.

However, if you look at the rest of the game, his scrambles, even the one wherein Shaun Rogers made that fantastic trip, then you see that many times when coverage was there, he got us extra yards with his feet.

>
> I mean seriously, it’s not like our coaching
> staff is somehow trying to subvert Henne’s
> amazing talent and STOP HIM from running up the
> score and destroying teams.

RESPONSE: No, I posted a Post about John Wooden. Use the "search" function and find it.

Our coaching staff is not out to get Henne. It's just stupid. Running the wildcat has nothing to do with Henne. I never said so.


The evidence is
> already IN for gods sakes. The kid is simply not
> getting the job done and there’s NO alternative
> on the roster.
>
> That’s incompetency IMO.


RESPONSE: As I said many times before, You don't know what you have in Henne as long as you have bad receivers and inconsistent PLAYCALLING.

RE: "Bad Receivers"

Now I know you're joking sometimes.

Brandon Marshall and Devon Bess are BOTH big-time players and would fetch a LOT more on the open market than Henne. So if they rate as "bad" Henne rates as absolutely horrific. It's all relative my friend.

In addition, Ronnie is excellent out of the backfield.

So that's 3 receivers already. And Fasano? He's not "bad" IMO.

Which leaves Hartline. Him and Henne are buddies so what's up with that? I like Hartline and think he's a player on the rise.

I guess Henne just misses our all-world WR Tebby Bear so much he's confused by the bunch of slugs we've got now.

That sounds reasonable.

BigNastyFish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> RE: "Bad Receivers"
>
> Now I know you're joking sometimes.
>
> Brandon Marshall and Devon Bess are BOTH big-time
> players and would fetch a LOT more on the open
> market than Henne. So if they rate as "bad" Henne
> rates as absolutely horrific. It's all relative my
> friend.
>
> In addition, Ronnie is excellent out of the
> backfield.
>
> So that's 3 receivers already. And Fasano? He's
> not "bad" IMO.
>
> Which leaves Hartline. Him and Henne are buddies
> so what's up with that? I like Hartline and think
> he's a player on the rise.
>
> I guess Henne just misses our all-world WR Tebby
> Bear so much he's confused by the bunch of slugs
> we've got now.
>
> That sounds reasonable.

Well I agree with you on this. I think Hartline is getting the job done and is on the rise. I don't see him dropping passes and I see him stretching the field more than any other receiver. He got behind the defender on that long pass that was under thrown and intercepted.

ChyrenB, if you read this I do mean "behind" the defender. From the defense point of view it is "behind". Every hear the term, "don't let anyone get behind you"?

Glad you cleared that up Leon. I was puzzled. Nasty, Hartline was the main guy letting the ball bounce off his hands in the first half of the season. Go back and watch your tapes.

Uh... I don't have any tapes. Can you send me yours?

Well I don't have any either. I thought that since you were so certain that Henne was the problem with our team you taped the games to document it. And BTW, I agree that Marshall is a good receiver and when, before he was injured, Henne got the ball anywhere near him he caught it. The problem was that he was always blanketed. That left Hartline who kept letting the ball bounce off his hands. But when Marshall got hurt that opened a spot for Bess, (Bless him) WHO CAN CATCH THE DAMN BALL! We just need another receiver. So if I said all of our receivers are bad, I overspoke.

I agree Hartline is made out of rubber. We should cut him tomorrow.

Bess is just too muscular and shifty as a WR. I'd move him to RB or maybe half-back in the wing T. But I do like his dreds.

Other than that I watch the games and kind of see what happens.

can we trade hartline to minnesota for camarillo back? I miss camarillo

"It's been fun to get the reaction of visiting coaches to the color of their locker room. Most don't notice it, but those that do are in trouble. . . . When I talk to an opposing coach before a game and he mentions the pink walls, I know I've got him. I can't recall a coach who has stirred up a fuss about the color and then beat us.” Hayden Fry

Agree