Zach Thomas is probably my fav dolphin of all time, 1st class act, Gave his all every play

bigger question is do you think he makes the HOF? definetly not first ballot but hopefully eventually...

He has more tackles than any LB in the HOF...probably not for many years...The last two years killed him

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

He's not a HOF player... but he will be in the debate.

Throw pro bowl apperances out the window they mean nothing anymore. In 13 NFL seasons he was First Team ALL PRO 5 times. That's OK, not great but not awful. In 13 seaons had over 100 tackles only 4 times. The most tackles he ever had was as a rookie, so he never matched that number. Not good.

He never played in any "meaningful" or "big" games in his career. Not even 1 really. Played on a defense that gave up 62 pts in a playoff game. That all works against him.

The NFL Hall of Fame used to be considered a joke. Not anymore that is a tough room these days. Zach wasn't a hall of fame player and I can't see him getting in.

JT probably will because the amount of sacks he racked up is amazing. Having 127 sacks and still going is good. And some of his big years were late in his career. Defensive player of the year award too. Now JT was only 3 times ALL PRO which hurts. But I can't see the Hall of Fame putting 2 defenders from the same defense that was never very good. And JT has a better resume than Zach so I think Zach will be the odd man out.

But if you look at his total tackles he had many more than 100 in a season 10 times with 6 of those being more than 150.

He was certainly a hall of fame player.

If he dosen't get into the HOF it'll be just another travesty like many other deserving former Phins that are not there and should be.

He was easily in the top two for linebackers of his era.

A 140 tackles? ha ha ha ha ha ha...lol lol lol yeah, ok!

You are combining tackels and assists. You can't do that. That's not how tackles are recorded. sorry!

Zach's best year for tackles he had 165 TOTAL TACKLES (2006). That's 103 SOLO and 62 Assisted tackles.

You are only counting Solo tackles. You don't just ignore the other tackles. What...they don't count? and no one gets credit for a tackle if another defender helps you bring the guy down? Not quite.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

There are tackles. There are assists. Two different categories. You can't combine them into one made up categeory and put it under one label.

Im not bringing the guy down. Im looking at the numbers the hall of fame people will look at. Not your made up category.

MikeO Wrote:
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> There are tackles. There are assists. Two
> different categories. You can't combine them into
> one made up categeory and put it under one label.
>


Actually, that's exactly what they do. No one ever uses "solo tackles" as a stat.

He never played in any "meaningful" or "big" games in his career. Not even 1 really. Played on a defense that gave up 62 pts in a playoff game. That all works against him.

You guys have to forgive MikeO he also believes Marino should not be in the HOF because he never won a BIG GAME.

clovis phinatic Wrote:
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> He never played in any "meaningful" or "big" games
> in his career. Not even 1 really. Played on a
> defense that gave up 62 pts in a playoff game.
> That all works against him.
>
> You guys have to forgive MikeO he also believes
> Marino should not be in the HOF because he never
> won a BIG GAME.


Stop lying and making stuff up and putting words in my mouth. Grow up!

eesti Wrote:
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> Yep. I made it up and ESPN, NFL.com, CBS and
> everyone else copied off of my made up category.
>
> There are tackles. There are assists. Two
> different categories. You can't combine them into
> one made up categeory and put it under one label.
>
>
> Sure I can and so can (and does) NFL.com. They are
> called Combined Tackles.
>
> A solo tackle is a tackle. An assisted tackle is a
> tackle. Wow...crazy concept!
>
> But you like to refer to it as an "assist". Maybe
> you're confusing it with the NBA assist. Then you
> might have a valid argument.
>
> I'm sure the HOF committee is going to disregard
> all assisted tackles because they "aren't really
> tackles". Sorry Mr. Lewis but you had help
> tackling that player so it doesn't really count.
> Give me a break.
>
> And every time Jason Taylor splits a sack with
> someone...it doesn't count either right?


You don't get it. When JT splits a sack he gets half a sack. It's not a whole sack and nobody trys to pass it off as one. A tackle and assist are two different things. If you would have combined the number but then listed how many solo nobody would have had an issue. BUt trying to pass off some 1700+ number as "solo" tackles which you were trying to do was being deceptive!

Mike, you should do yourself a favor and stop debating this one. You are getting destroyed and making yourself look more and more foolish by the post....you didn't even respond to dolphinmark's post.

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"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

Zach deserves to be in the Hall of Fame because he was the best in the league at his positions for several seasons.

it isn't just that he had huge numbers. There were seasons in which he had more tackles than any other LB in the league.

The HOF typically looks at whether or not the player was able to dominate at their position for an extended period of time.

The fact that Ray Lewis also had similar numbers during some of Zach's does not diminish his place in NFL History.

Think of him as the Dan Fouts of LB's. Dan never lead his team to a Superbowl, he did not set any major records, he was outplayed by Marino, Kelly, Montana...but he got in...because he was great.

Why would he not make it? Because Ray Lewis deserves it too? or more?

Zach Thomas has more tackles than ANY Linebacker in the Hall of Fame.

he deserves to be in.

Aqua&Orange Wrote:
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> Mike, you should do yourself a favor and stop
> debating this one. You are getting destroyed and
> making yourself look more and more foolish by the
> post....you didn't even respond to dolphinmark's
> post.


1) Don't you have me on IGNORE! Please put me back on there

2) How am I getting destroyed?? I am not knocking Zach. And if you think Tackles and Assists are the same thing then you don't know what your talking about either.

3) I must have missed DolphinMark's comments so let me go back and find it now and respond.

4) Put me back on Ignore. Thank you!

dolfanmark Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MikeO Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > There are tackles. There are assists. Two
> > different categories. You can't combine them
> into
> > one made up categeory and put it under one
> label.
> >
>
>
> Actually, that's exactly what they do. No one ever
> uses "solo tackles" as a stat.


I disagree. Almost everyone in NFL circles use SOLO tackles as the only mark that matters. If its never "used" then why do they keep the stat? And why then by your standards aren't "assists" meaning more than "solo" tackles? Your logic is flawed.

realist Wrote:
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> Zach deserves to be in the Hall of Fame because he
> was the best in the league at his positions for
> several seasons.
>
> it isn't just that he had huge numbers. There were
> seasons in which he had more tackles than any
> other LB in the league.
>
> The HOF typically looks at whether or not the
> player was able to dominate at their position for
> an extended period of time.
>
> The fact that Ray Lewis also had similar numbers
> during some of Zach's does not diminish his place
> in NFL History.
>
> Think of him as the Dan Fouts of LB's. Dan never
> lead his team to a Superbowl, he did not set any
> major records, he was outplayed by Marino, Kelly,
> Montana...but he got in...because he was great.
>
> Why would he not make it? Because Ray Lewis
> deserves it too? or more?
>
> Zach Thomas has more tackles than ANY Linebacker
> in the Hall of Fame.
>
> he deserves to be in.


Here is what hurts Zach alot. In Zach's "era" the 2 MLB's who compare to him or are on his level are Ray Lewis and Brian Urlacher.

Lewis led an all time defense. One of the Top 5 or Top 10 (depending on where you rank them) of all time. And his defense carried his team to a Super Bowl with a CRAP QB in Trent Dilfer. Brian Urlacher, led his team to a Super Bowl game, a team carried by HIS DEFENSE, with a crap QB in Rex Grossman. These guys were so dominate that they carried their teams. Or led the unit that carried their teams to the biggest game of them all.

Zach played with crap QB's on the level of Dilfer and Grossman...and he never led his defense to a Super Bowl let alone some big games. That's whats gonna work against him as well.

The Dan Fouts comparison is GOOD. But the LB position isn't the QB position. They are viewed differently. And I can't see a comparison like that flying in the hall of fame room.

The one thing we can all agree on. Zach will be put in the RING OF FAME at Sun-Life Stadium. I mean if Richmond Webb is put in then lord knows Zach deserves it.

Don't like to do it too soon after they retire so wait a few years. Probably wait for JT to retire and maybe do the both of them on the same day.

And if Zach is really having trouble with concussions I really hope he talks with Mr.Chris Nowiski and donates his brain to his group for research after he passes. This concussion issue is snowballing into something very big for ex-NFL players and something has to be done to fix it. I hope Zach would choose to be part of the solution.

I agree that Lewis and Urlacher had similar O's. BUt their QB's played safer Football than Zach's. We had guys throwing picks at the worst possible times. Dilfer didn't light anything up...but at least he protected the ball.

And I think they will be in the HOF...they may even get in first....but the fact that Zach has more tackles than anyone currently in the HOF means he gets in with them.

Aqua&Orange Wrote:
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>
> your making yourself look more and more foolish by the
> post

Is that possible? Surely not!

In my opinion he is a first ballot hall of famer and im not just saying that because im a dolphin fan....his numbers dont lie..two reasons why he wont be is

1.Never won a super bowl
2. Was a quite guy who went about his business unlike ray lewis's loud mouth who took all the spotlite compared to the linebackers

MiamiDolphins4Life Wrote:
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> In my opinion he is a first ballot hall of famer
> and im not just saying that because im a dolphin
> fan....his numbers dont lie..two reasons why he
> wont be is
>
> 1.Never won a super bowl
> 2. Was a quite guy who went about his business
> unlike ray lewis's loud mouth who took all the
> spotlite compared to the linebackers

Point number two I believe is the real reason.

The notion that a player has to be in big games in order to deserve HOF induction is a huge, stinking, flaming load of feces.

Dick Butkus spent his career on some really bad Chicago Bears teams. I believe they had only a couple of winning seasons while he was on the team, and never made the playoffs during that time. That means he didn't play in any meaningful games. Well then how the hell did Butkus reach The Hall?

Offense or Defense I HATE when people say he never won a BIG GAME or SUPERBOWL. FOOTBALL IS NOT GOLF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THIS MAY BE HARD TO UNDERSTAND BUT THERE IS MORE THAN 1 PERSON ON THE FIELD!!!!!!!!!