I am resetting the discussion on a new thread because I don't care about baseball.

Anyway, yesterday there were times where Chad had no time to setup let alone throw. That is a true statement.

That said; however, there were also plays where the OL held up fine and provided time and Chad threw a dink & dunk pass. ON one play he threw it into the ground with no-one near him. Maybe guys weren't running the right routes...but....I have seen Favre, Flutie, Eliah Manning improvise and get SOMETHING!! I know Chad is a 'ball control manager' but when you are down in the 4th quarter....you make things happen.

The OL played out of character. They typically do better. Chad played like himself. Short accurate safe passes.

we need a QB who can do what Matt Ryan did. ( not to start that discussion).

Lastly Brian Hartline needs to be on the field.

Realist,

I agree that Chad limits our offense and that there are certain passing plays that we won't have in our arsenal because of his physical limitations. That said, I don't think Henne is a realistic option, at least yet. He's had his moments, but he doesn't seem to be particularly mobile and tends to hold onto to the ball at times. Honestly, as ugly as the game was yesterday (and it was damn ugly), I have to think that it might have been uglier had Henne been in. If we get to the point that playoffs are no longer in play, then I think that we ought to see what Henne has. Maybe he's a Phillip Merling and plays better than he practices. The offensive line definitely concerns me because they played nowhere near as well as last year (even after losing Smiley and Thomas). Maybe they just need some time playing together, but it was disheartening to see Jake Long manhandled and abused like he was. I still have a lot of confidence in Sparano, Parcells, and Ireland to fix things in the longer term. The good news was that Merling looks very good (and hopefully earned himself more playing time). Sean Smith played for the most part like the rookie that he is, but I have a feeling the kid will be very good down the road. Also, we pretty much negated Turner as a factor which is no small feat. Bottom line, I'm still confident that we will eventually become an elite team under the current management/coaching. Eventually.

Spot on realist

1. yes need to be pushing to make something happen in the 4th qtr

- Not saying hang on and get a sack, just need to wait until no options exist before you give it up & toss to the ground.

2. OL got spanked and need a long look in the mirror.

3. Fasano needs to push a grocery basket around all week with a football in it.
- Dump to the TE is about all we have left. Need to capitalize on it and make it an effective weapon, kind of like Matt Ryan did with Gonzalez.

Just throw it to Haynos, he held on to his 21 yard completion.

God one bad game and u jump on chad like he threw 10 ints guys 1 bad game and like ive said before get the heck over it

In the last 2 Miami Dolphins MEANINGFUL games (Balt and Atlanta) Miami has 9 turnovers. Those are against 2 playoff teams and 2 good teams.

Against the "good teams" we get exposed. Until that changes we are spinning our wheels in the mud.

There are a lot of ways to look at games, and I can't disagree with some of the original post, but keep in mind that Penny doesn't call the plays, and he was stuck with 2nd and long yardage on plenty of downs. No QB wants that, game manager or not.

When the coaches can't do anything but run the ball on first down, that's making the offense too predictable. Then when they could least afford to get risky - Penny pulled his ass up off the ground and methodically marched into Falcons territory, they suddenly yanked him out of play and put in a rookie. Penny must have been thinking, what psychotic medication are these coaches on?

(Oh, and just for good measure, don't forget Carey's holding call on a pass for a touchdown that got called back).

0-2 last year.........got the one bad game out of our system.

I agree. I am not clamoring for Henne yet. I didn't see enough. And Pat White, while intriguing in the 'potential' doesn't look anywhere near the point of being a starter. he does have a cannon for an arm though. If he connects on 2-3 deep passes this season? Start him.

No, if you go way back to last January you will see that I felt he lost us that very important game.

I like Chad. he is accurate, and safe, and the perfect QB to help turn a 1-15 team into a competitive team. BUT...if you are looking to become a legitimate play-off team? Chad is not the guy. he doesn't throw long consistently. he protects the ball well; but, at time ( yesterday) when the team's back is up against the wall he stays too conservative.

can't really disagree with those points. Penny did get us down field. BUt at some point...he needs to air it out. Even if only to scare the Defense.

I am sure that Pat White/Ginn play will have OC's on our schedule spending some time prepping for that. In the wildcat...he offers something explosive. When was the last time anyone used that word with Chad?

I agree....Pennington is good enough to get us to the playoffs but a stronger arm is needed to win the SB.

Well, obviousily, since he hasn't hit any deep passes yet, IF he connects on 2-3 deep ones in the near future that would be an indication that he has improved/adjusted to NFL speed.

If a highly mobile QB is able to connect on a deep pass enough times to make D's realize it isn't 'luck', then they will have to account for both his running and passing.

Chad P is NOT the future. The sooner we find the FUTURE QB the sooner we go through the grow the inevitable growing pains associated with a new QB.

I am all for giving Henne a shot as well. No problem there. BUT, if White can throw deep? He is a double threat.

I LOVED the cannon I saw from White. That is an arm. It wasn't a floater that sailed. he plain out launched it and it was in a perfect spiral all the way. Too far, yes, but that was adrenaline and will eventually get under control.

Am I saying start White now? NO. But a 2nd round pick isn't really a gimmick pick. That's an eventual starter. Henne deserves the same chance. but really he is in year two and White is in his rookie year. White WAS the offence at VT. He is a playmaker.

If - and to be clear, I'm not advocating it - the Phins decide to try another starting QB, it would have to be Henne, in my opinion. His preseason was disappointing, but he demonstrated more command of the offense than Pat at this point. If they're going to rip off the band aid any time soon, I think Henne should get the shot to prove it on the field, unless the Tri has just done a complete 180 in their perception of his potential.

I agree that if Pat can throw deep and run, he is a dual threat. I think an elite QB today is and has to be much more than a dual threat, though. There are fundamental things that I don't think I've ever seen Pat do consistently well at the pro level in the views of OTAs, practices and preseason games that I get - screen passes with touch, accuracy at any level of throw (again, consistently), lead the team on a successful long drive, look off safeties, etc. I'm not saying these can't develop, just that it's probably better to develop them further apart from live action.

I have to admit that I believe that Sparano's trigger finger will be pretty quick on Pennington if he feels that the long-term value to the team of starting another QB is greater than the short-term value of perhaps winning a couple of extra regular season games or having stability so the other folks on offense can develop. I believe that was very valuable last year with almost a completely new OL, new receivers (IMO Ginn's rookie year was a waste), new TE...so many moving parts that stability at QB was essential.

Finally, I haven't re-watched that portion of the game, but I was not against the White pass attempt, as others have been. I feel it is important to show teams that we can score from anywhere on the field with one of the fastest players in the league. From what I remember, Ginn had beaten the coverage by a decent bit and an accurate throw would have almost certainly resulted in a TD. I do believe that adrenaline got the best of him and that we'll hit one soon.

I think focus on Pennington is the wrong issues based on game one performance.

No one we have could have done any better with the OL play and the turnovers

Ok you look at Pennington, but go back and look at the offense he is playing in, i say 4 wide out what once twice? We have no offensive plays designed to make Pennington a winner, there all basic stupid plays, i am realy starting not to like Henn as our O cordinator, I see every other team do a nice spread formation, and have solid pass's out of it, but our team doesnt even try, you dont like the offense, which is alot like the Raiders, run heavy and short pass's, and Cable is also a O-lineman coach, and we run alot of simular plays, our problem is lack os execution on our line. And horrible pass play calls.

Yeah I would agree with what you've said. Henne has mor epoise and I would be in favour of giving him a shot. And White did not get the prep to be a starter and is quite green. I think Henne has a nice deep ball as well.

I figure in the next 5 weeks we will know Chad P.'s fate.

I don't know PhinJim.

I saw Penny throw the checkdown or the throw-away a couple times without any pressure. I think he is too cautious when it comes to going downfield. He wants to see a wide open guy as opposed to throwing it to a safe spot and challenging your WR to go get it. When your ball floats...that's dangerous.

I like Chad...but he hasn't shown me anything that makes me think play-offs.

Tough to argue against that. I wondered about our playbook as well.

Well, look at Pennington, the only thing he has, is Completion percentage, and a weak arm, so naturaly he isnt going to look for the deep ball, because he dosnt feel comfortable throwing it. I blame Henn for this crap. Yeah the man does a nice job with the misdirection play calling, but our basic sets are horrible.

The o-line had their share of problems no doubt and the turnovers killed any chance at a victory. Chad is what he is.He is a guy that needs a strong running game and the threat of playaction to be successful. They abandoned the running game way to early IMO. When you have two 230lb sledge hammers you have to give them the chance to wear teams down. Indy will present a similar challenge with a small quick defense with quick DE's. Long will have to play better for our passing game to have any chance. Teams are starting to compress the field making passing windows smaller and smaller. We have to run the ball to set up playaction or we have to take some shots on early downs and show we will attack down field.
Unfortunately Penny doesn't have the arm strength to throw into those small windows or allow Ginn to run past safety over top coverage. We have to hope R&R can carry the heavy lifting or we are in for a long season.


I don't think Penny's leash will be a long one this season. What do you guys think?

wayne Wrote:
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> I don't think Penny's leash will be a long one
> this season. What do you guys think?

The starting QB position is Penny's to lose this year. He'll have to really stink it up to be benched. Of course, a couple more games like Atlanta with Penny getting sacked and knocked down almost every down and the decision may be easy. Remember, Penny has never played 2 full seasons healthy.