I have watched all four pre-season games and Ginn is given the biggest cushion I have seen in a long time. My goodness teams seem to be scared to death. Anyone else notice this?

looks like penningtons go to man is bess and hennes go to man is ginn

yes ginn is given a cushion big time

The reason they do this is because, yes, he is fast... but more importantly its because he hasn't shown an ability to kill teams with the underneath routes. He has a propensity for dropping the ball (especially if a defender recognizes the underneath route and comes up and hits him), he is not shifty enough to make tacklers miss, and he almost always goes down at first contact.

All of those things combined and giving him that cushion is not hurting defenses... but is protecting them from the off chance that he may burn past them and get so wide open a touchdown is inevitable.

Its a smart move. Basically he is a one-trick pony and they are taking away his one trick. If he shows that he can consistenly make them pay by moving the chains and making those consistent 7-10+ yards plays that they are exposing themselves to, then they will start pressuring him closer and opening up the downfield routes.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/03/2009 07:03PM by grooves12.

Good luck with that! lol I hope he does.

Good analysis, Grooves. Seems that's exactly what's going on. And he's no help with blocking either, as we saw Bess be up-ended by a defender and risk getting really hurt because Ginn wouldn't block. In fact, if my memory serves me, isn't one of his miscues on the field the reason Trent Green got injured?

I just don't understand how the heck a guy like this, who is small, can't block, get's confused on the field, can't come back to help his QB and catch balls, gets clobbered by defenses, be picked as high as he was in the first round. Yeah, he's fast, but that's it.

If we're going to take advantage of Ginn, it's going to have to be when Henne or some other QB gets on the field, because Pennington doesn't hook up with him.

Our season is depending on Ginn stepping up this year. So when I see all these passes to David Martin, and Camarillo who is trying to come back from an injury, and nothing much toward Ginn...it makes me disgusted. Maybe they'll open it up more in regular season. Otherwise, what the f*ck, trade him if you can't use him!

DolphinSam Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I just don't understand how the heck a guy like
> this, who is small, can't block, get's confused on
> the field, can't come back to help his QB and
> catch balls, gets clobbered by defenses, be picked
> as high as he was in the first round. Yeah, he's
> fast, but that's it.
>
When he was drafted, his greatest potential was as a kick and punt returner, not a WR. Unfortunately, he seems to have lost his edge there as well. Meanwhile, 2 undrafted guys (Bess and Camarillo) are outplaying him!

Ginn is pretty damn good on reverses though.

Consider the possibility that the Fins know this too, and are saving the underneath and inside routes for the season.

The second game they showed what Ginn can do in that area. Hope I'm not viewing thru rose colored, but IMHO there sure better be a whole lot they are not showing, when:

1. Two weeks in a row we only score 10 points. (Yes I get that the defense only allowed 7 in each)

2. Not just passing that is an issue but "how short we are passing, and not a great run game either.

Ginn, we need to trade Ginn! Lets start Henne because Penninton dosent hook up with Ginn? Am i reading that right? Come on guys seriously, if he doesnt break out this year, cut him or try to trade him for somthing, the rest of the wr's on our team do ok with Pennington! That must mean that Ginn is the problem, not our qb. I dont expect much this year from Ginn, Maybe 4 td's 5 tops? He MIGHT get 1,000 yards MIGHT, but i just dont see it? Not with Heartline, and Camarillo, and Bess.

I don't know why everyone freaks out because of preseason production. Ginn has 5/71 so far. Cam is 5/74. Bess is 9/69. Hartline is 5/105 and Turner is 7/65. None of our WR's have much production right now. It's not a big deal.

By comparison, Hakeem Nicks is leading the league in the preseason with 272 yards 3 TD's for a ridiculous 30.2 yard average!

Ronnie Brown has rushed for 67 yards and Lex Hilliard has rushed for 165. I suppose we should get rid of Brown and start Hilliard.

I also don't know where the perception comes from that Ginn drops the ball. I think he has very good hands. Every WR is going to drop a few balls now and then. No one catches every ball thrown at them.

I really can't wait for the season to start so Ginn can get his chance to silence his critics.

Trade Ginn and start Henne? That is ridiculous.

Henne has not done much to show that he is ready to start. He doesn't even look as good as last preseason. Penni has a 101 QB rating, Henne has a 73.4. He has showed that he is still inconsistent.

Pennington will take us much farther than Henne this year and thankfully the coaches aren't willing to give up on the season just to provide some training for Henne.

My guess is that Pennington lights it up this year again and gets resigned in 2010.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

I hope Penny gets resigned. I just dont know whats going to happen. All we can do is sit wait, and watch.

Wow not many Ted Ginn fans on here I see and while I disagree with 95% of your evaluation of Ginn I will reserve my rebuttle at this time. I say we wait until mid-season and we'll have this discussion again. I think most of you nay-sayers will be pleasently surprised.

I hope your right! He is on a short leash in my book.

I am still of the opinion that Ginn will be a top-notch wideout. He is one of the fastest guys in the league. So fast that they are forced to play so far off of him. He also draws double coverage at times which, in turn, elevates the play of his fellow receivers. As far as I can tell, he seems to have decent hands. Nat Moore is definitely a believer and I trust him opinion more than anyone on this site. Finally, our coaches and talent evaluators think enough of him that he is the only player who is the uncontested number one receiver on the team. We all know that this is the critical 3rd year. If he can get 70 receptions or more in our offense, then this will have been a good year. That would most likely translate to 1000 yards or greater.

Jonathan I'm not really saying Ginn is not a weapon. I'm saying that if we can't use him in the right way, have the right QB and scheme, etc, then what's the point, just trade him.

This is just my opinion but he was drafted too high. He's fast but he's small, and he needed time to develop. He wasn't the type of WR to build your team around, he's a player with a specific kind of talent to add to an offense which ALREADY has a nice setup with a strong-armed QB, and playmaking WR's. If he was on another team, I have no doubt he'd have a decent season and be able to contribute. That's exactly why he should have good trade value.

If he has a breakout season this year and makes big plays for us, I'll be happy. I would still maintain he was the wrong draft pick, and the offense lagged behind and suffered because of that, waiting for Ginn to catch on, but if he breaks out I'd be really pleased. So far though, in camp and preseason, there's nothing to indicate he will. And I think the offense will continue to suffer and struggle because of it.

I just finished listening to Camarillo speak on WQAM and he said "The coaches know what we do best, putting us in a position to succeed. Putting Ted by himself on one side, it takes two people, with his speed, to cover him. You leave Davon one on one in the slot, he will get open and that's what he does best so I like the way we line up on offense and we looked real good early on and have to ride that momentum and put together a full game."

Sounds like Ginn is the key to me. They put him on one side and allow him to draw double coverage while Bess and Camarillo team up on the other side, drawing single coverage. I just don't think many of you recognize the significance of that role. If he wasn't that good, then why would teams play so far off of him and rotate an extra man toward him?

Despite this, over the first two years, he has put up respectable and efficient numbers. As ChambersDeepBall points out, he has been effective running the reverses too, which forces defenders to stay at home. By the way, wasn't last year Pennington's best statistically. The receivers, therefore, must be doing something right.

This is that critical 3rd year for Ted. The one year that great receivers seem to use to make that momumental leap statistically. Like Wayne, everybody should reserve judgment, at least, until mid-season.

You know, I love our guys, their spirit, and I love Penny's attitude and leadership...but you said it yourself, there's "Bess and Camarillo" opposite Ginn. I'm sorry, but defenses are not afraid of that package. They're afraid of the POTENTIAL of Ted Ginn, which is why they double coverage and eliminate that problem. Opposing teams don't consider anyone else on the offense a problem.

And if Ginn is making other receivers wide open then why was Penny standing back there all day with no one to throw to? Why did we scrape out 3 points after several series?

Gotta agree with you, Grooves.

Cam Cameron was about as good as Nick Saban when picking players. He picked the Ginn family when there were several other better selections. As for John Beck, I'm actually think more of that pick. Look at the O-line Beck had for his rookie season - Marino would have been shell shocked if he were in that position.

I think Beck will be a good player down the line. He's a smart player and has a good arm. He just didn't fit in with the plans once we picked up Henne and Penny. I expect to seem him do well in Baltimore if Flacco goes down.

Beck is already on IR I believe.

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“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

The only reason saban did not miss with ronnie was because saban had the 2nd overall pick. A can't miss situation.

Bowe is a better wr than ginn. And should have a better year this year!

Here's an interesting set of comments about Ted Ginn from Sparano and Pennington.

- Sparaon states why he wasn't prfiled so much in preseason, and Pennington talks about TG learning the difference between separation and speed.

• Dolphins officials believe Ted Ginn Jr. is ready to break out and didn't feel a need to get him a lot of offensive touches in the preseason (five catches). ``Most of the great receivers really come on in the third year,'' he said.

What changed from last year? ``He's doing an excellent job of route-running,'' Chad Pennington said. ``It's one thing to be fast. It's another thing to create separation. Those are two totally different things. In this league, you don't create separation just by speed. He's learning that. When he's coming out of breaks, he's got that separation now. I'm really happy where he is.''

Those words from Sparano are definitely comforting, and I think believable.

Game 1 of the preseason was the 'let's go to Ginn' game. While he was in there (about 1 1/2 quarters) Ginn ran a reverse for 14 yards, caught two passes for 26 yards and most importantly caused a 34-yard PI penalty. This activity - totaling 74 yards - all happened during 2 consecutive series.

I believe that in subsequent games, the plan was not to feature him, but to work on other aspects of the offense. We look at statistics and think that he had an inconsistent preseason. I'm guessing that coaches, players, etc. knew that on a ton of the plays where he was in the game he wasn't really even an option considering what they planned to accomplish.

Pennington's words are incredibly insightful, I believe. Last year, Ginn would disappear for stretches. It was like he was running wind sprints but never really an option. I'm excited to see what it means for him to have speed AND separation.

Please know that I don't think he'll have 74 yards of impact every quarter he plays, but we should also keep in mind that he was basically 1 13-yard catch per game away from 1000 yards. 1000 isn't prolific, but it in the Moss/TO (among others) range for 2008.

eesti Wrote:
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> Bowe is a better wr than ginn. And should have a
> better year this year!
>
> Bowe may have beat Ginn out of the gate but the
> race isn't over.


I bet you anything ginn wins in a race and yes the race isn't over.

I hope he does, only time will tell.

Time...yes. 3 days, 23 hours and 40 minutes to be exact.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers