This team must enjoy embarrassing both themselves and their fans in night games that the entire football world is watching, because they do it so often. I thought that we might be past that with the win on the road over the Rams, but..apparently not. Tua drives me crazy. He's either excellent or awful- there seems to be little in-between, and he is inconsistent as hell- and not game-to-game, but series to series. Unless it's cold, then all bets are off.

Rick

The Steelers have had only 3 HCs and have had great success over the years. The organization is strong. The Dolphins have had plenty of HCs, the best being Shula with 26 years. It amazes me that the Dolphins' organization can't build a strong team and that it continues to select people who are not proven HCs, aside from Johnson and Saban (college). The list of HC is troubling and lacking credentials--most are no longer involved with football. Dan Campbell was passed over for the Dolphins HC job when he was the interim HC and went on to head the Lions. He struggled and now has a good Detroit team that may make it to the Super Bowl.

Dolphins' management is at fault here! Grier has failed and Mr Ross, for some reason, hasn't seen Grier as a liability to this team's improvement. There are talented players on the team, no doubt about it, but there are many who need better coaching from assistants. McDaniel is not HC material, not a leader, and isn't going to take this club anywhere, IMO.

Teams take on the personality of their coach. We're soft for a reason.

Tua needs to stop grinning from ear to ear when he misses wide open wrs on 3rd or 4th down. Get pissed. Correct it.

McDaniel is a good offensive coach. Not a head coach. Grier is a loser and should have been fired years ago.

Time to stop the half measures and fire both and get someone like Vrable in here.

jsm08 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Teams take on the personality of their coach.
> We're soft for a reason.
>
> Tua needs to stop grinning from ear to ear when he
> misses wide open wrs on 3rd or 4th down. Get
> pissed. Correct it.
>
> McDaniel is a good offensive coach. Not a head
> coach. Grier is a loser and should have been
> fired years ago.
>
> Time to stop the half measures and fire both and
> get someone like Vrable in here.


Tua is the least of the problems. He completed 80.4% of his passes last night. This offensive line couldn't open up a hole for the running game if they were allowed to put 10 players on the OL. It seemed like the defense missed more tackles than they made. Special teams didn't exactly help by serving the packers a 7 point gift. Tua isn't perfect but I don't care who you put out there at QB, with this offensive line, no running game, and a defense that is as inconsistent as an old dial-up internet connection. If we want to blame someone, Chris Grier is the architect of this mess. Name me one team with a worse offensive line that has a winning record. Detroit has some stellar skill position players but what sets them apart is the offensive line. I wonder if Grier still thinks questioning the offensive line is funny.

Agree with everything above. The real indicator of a bad coach is when the same mistakes are repeated week after week. Special teams isn't bad.......its atrocious.

In 23' The Dolphins ended up 31st (out of 32 teams) in longtime NFL writer Rick Gosselin's annual special teams rankings. This year we are at 32!! Why wasn't this not only addressed why did it get WORSE!?

Things would be different if JJ was still here. If Shula was here. Hell even Saprano or GASE. They keep PADDING receiver , running back but dont address other positions. That's all good but you cant win addressing your strong points and forgetting the weak ones. It wont go away or magically fix its self. Its like a body builder who just keeps contracting on chest and arms. He goes to the contest and is lopsided because he ignores his legs. Might have the best arms in the world.......looks amazing in a tank top walking around....but once he goes head to head to someone who is more balanced he loses. EVERYTIME he is exposed for puny calfs and thighs. What does he do on Monday? Right back at the preacher curls and bench presses.....ignores squats.

GO DOLPHINS!!!!

Went in with high hopes but realistic expectations. Every time I look at McDaniels, the stupid fk looks perplexed and lost.

Embarrassed and completely outplayed at every level was what I saw and decided to enjoy Thanksgiving with the family.

It's over....again

Agree, Fins72. Tua was the only one that showed up. I just think it's a bad look smiling after those plays. That's a reflection of our HC. "Gee whiz, we'll get 'em next time"

That's fair enough. My biggest frustration is with how long this team has been hamstrung by crappy Offensive line play. That's my biggest gripe against Grier. Other than Grier, who thought going into this season that Offensive line wasn't going to be a problem? I think the whole, "Miami can't win in the cold" narrative stems from poor offensive line play. When it's cold you need to run the ball. How many times did Achane or Mostert have any kind of hole to run through? My take is that the issue with playing in inclement weather will continue until we have an offensive line that can make the running game go. That's squarely on Grier.

I was NOT all that impressed with Tua. Ball on the one yard line and can't get it in? Two passing plays and one run play and can't get it in?
3rd and inches and QB sneak is off the table? Brady makes that sneak 100 out of 100 tries but it's not even an option for Tua?
Is Tua the ONLY QB in the NFL with an eggshell noggin?

I've accepted that a sizeable percentage of fans will never accept Tua for one reason or another but if you're going to blame him for last night's loss, note one amazing stat. 39 total yards rushing (6 of which were Tua) for a 2.8 yard per carry average. How many QBs are going to win consistently when they have no running game. Not a below average running game but NO running game. Add into that missed tackles all night long.

Tua's numbers: 37 of 46 for 365 yards 2 TDs 80% comp 114. 2 QB rating.

Tua sacked 5 times. Jordan Love zero sacks

Tua isn't perfect but he wasn't the problem last night. Offensive line remains a disaster and I doubt Chris Grier will ever fix it because he's been here for over a decade and still hasn't done it. As long as Grier is GM, Miami will never win a title. Period.

My point exactly...he's undependable when it counts. It doesn't matter that he connected on 80% of his passes..we LOST! Tua was certainly one of the MAJOR reasons! Yeah, he connected on 80%- but it was obviously the other 20% that were the winning throws- and he didn't make them. Against the better teams, he NEVER makes them.

Rick

The reason is that regardless of stats HE DOESN'T WIN. I should think that is obvious to anyone. Statistics are calculated AFTER the game for a reason. His statistics may be gaudy, but statistics are for LOSERS. WINS are for winners! I don't care if he completes 20% of his passes, IF HE WINS! This kid can't win when he completes 80%! That is a damning statistic! Some ignorant people think that anal-ytics are all-important, but they are just numbers- this game is not played by numbers, but by people. Analytics do not take this into account. His completion percentage, as in this game, may be very good, but apparently that remaining 20% would have contained the missed first downs, the chunk plays, and the scoring plays, because they weren't in the 80%.

Rick

Honestly, don't you think that perhaps having 38 rushing yard for the entire game had a hand in the loss? The defense missing 20 tackles might have been more at fault than the 20 percent of the throws that Tua missed? The zero sacks of Love? Maybe the special teams that gifted GB 7 points right off the bat? Truth be known, Tua, Jonnu Smith, and maybe Waddle are the only players that didn't embarrass themselves. People are going to hate on Tua, I get it, but I am 100% certain that the real problem with Miami can be summed up in two words: Chris Grier. His drafts have stunk and his free agent pick ups are either old, injury prone, or just plain bad. Until he's replaced, we could have a 27 year old Dan Marino playing QB and it won't matter.

I disagree with much of what you said. All of the game stuff you mentioned certainly contributed, but if your leader is so inconsistent that he can't win when he makes 80% of his passes, then he's just not a winner. I don't dislike him for any reason other than he doesn't win games that matter. I wish he did, but the fact is that he doesn't. I am not exactly enamored with Greer either, but realistically, he's no worse than many GM's, and better than most. That said, I'm tired of him too. He lost me when he let AVG go to Minnesota.

Rick

Yes, we disagree. When I look at the game, I find it hard to believe that not being able to run it in from the GB 1 yard line wasn't the biggest problem that lost the game. Moreover, when a defense knows that you can't get a yard, it makes your offense pretty predictable. The running backs had 12 carries for 33 yard. That's 2.75 yards a carry. For perspective, that includes Mostert's 12 yard run and I'm not blaming the running backs. They're getting hit in the backfield pretty much every running play. I knew going into this season that two things were going to torpedo this season. The offensive line and losing Wilkins, Davis, and Van Ginkel without any legitimate plan for replacing their production. Campbell has been a great addition, but at his age, he's a part-time player. There's no nose tackle to speak of which should have been addressed in the draft. Tua getting hurt and expecting Skylar Thompson to keep the season afloat was just an extra bit of incompetence that I didn't envision. Grier's cluelessness was on full display when he signed Tim Boyle. We'd have been better off signing Peter Boyle but he was dead and unavailable. I know you disagree and certainly you're entitled to your opinion, but I have a hard time believing that if Miami had run for an even modest 100 yards, that the result wouldn't have been different. Does that mean they'd have won the game? Not necessarily, but I absolutely believe that it would have been a competitive game with a chance to come out on top. I also have a hard time believing that having Van Ginkel and Wilkins wouldn't have made a major impact on the result. Grier has been the GM in Miami since 2016. Since then, they've averaged a shade over 8 wins per season.Just enough to keep you from picking early in the draft. No division titles. No playoff wins. If you're the owner of an NFL franchise, someone comes in with that kind of 8 year resume, who in the hell is going to hire him. Well, Stephen Ross for one but I can't think of any other owner that would be okay with that type of average to mediocre results. Replace Grier with a competent GM, and if Tua doesn't produce results, I'll be right with you. As hard as it is to find a QB that can put up numbers like Tua (with a bad offensive line and no running game) I just don't want them to give up on him until we can see what happens if and when the GM doesn't put players like Eichenberg, Jones, and Jackson/Lamm expecting to have a running game or acceptable pass protection. Replacing Tua but keeping Grier will be like putting a new paint job on a car with no engine. It might look nice but it isn't going to get you anywhere.

Im lifting this from a few different articles , but it all makes really good sense:

"In the Dolphins' past 16 games against teams with winning records, they are 1-15."

This is quite unacceptable and the real reason the Dolphins can't win in the playoffs or win the division. Miami is that bully who preys on the weak until someone bigger comes along and puts them in their place. It only adds to the narrative that they are "soft."

How sad is this? The Dolphins put up 70 points against a Broncos team that was one of the worst in the NFL last year. This year, the Dolphins are praying the Broncos will lose a few games so they can sneak into the playoffs."

"Firing Mike McDaniel may not make a lot of sense. This team is built for his offensive system and will be for at least another year. Firing Chris Grier makes a lot of sense. A new GM would have a full season to evaluate the head coach and quarterback."


Grier should be showed the door now but ROSS has to handle this with class so he can attract the best available. We need toughness , BIG bodies on the offensive line. I don't think we need a full rebuild.......We have some very expensive contracts and great players available. Fire the Special Teams coach immediately and show a sign of whats coming.

GO DOLPHINS!!!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/01/2024 02:03PM by TreasurecoastPhinsfan.

TreasurecoastPhinsfan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Im lifting this from a few different articles ,
> but it all makes really good sense:
>
> "In the Dolphins' past 16 games against teams with
> winning records, they are 1-15."
>
> This is quite unacceptable and the real reason the
> Dolphins can't win in the playoffs or win the
> division. Miami is that bully who preys on the
> weak until someone bigger comes along and puts
> them in their place. It only adds to the narrative
> that they are "soft."
>
> How sad is this? The Dolphins put up 70 points
> against a Broncos team that was one of the worst
> in the NFL last year. This year, the Dolphins are
> praying the Broncos will lose a few games so they
> can sneak into the playoffs."
>
> "Firing Mike McDaniel may not make a lot of sense.
> This team is built for his offensive system and
> will be for at least another year. Firing Chris
> Grier makes a lot of sense. A new GM would have a
> full season to evaluate the head coach and
> quarterback."
>
>
> Grier should be showed the door now but ROSS has
> to handle this with class so he can attract the
> best available. We need toughness , BIG bodies on
> the offensive line. I don't think we need a full
> rebuild.......We have some very expensive
> contracts and great players available. Fire the
> Special Teams coach immediately and show a sign of
> whats coming.


Totally agree about Grier. Everyone, from fans to the sports media knew going in that the offensive line was mediocre. Grier for some odd reason just doesn't seem to get it. What makes it even worse is that you have a QB who's had multiple injuries and you put players like Liam Eichenberg, Robert Jones, and Austin Jackson to protect him. The few home runs he's hit in the draft never see their second contracts with the team. Wilkins should've been resigned years before his contract was set to expire. Same with Robert Hunt. From what I read, Van Ginkel wasn't even offered a contract. They could've resigned Van Ginkel for 2 or 3 million more than they paid Barrett. Grier is the problem. Finding a competent GM is the solution.

Tua was the least of their problems at GB. Did any of you see this team when Tua was out?

Just imagine for a second if that dm sh*t Grier had passed on Turndaballova and went with Love or Herbert?

Just an idiot of a GM

jsm08 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tua was the least of their problems at GB. Did
> any of you see this team when Tua was out?


That's what gets me with some fans. Don't like Tua? Okay, that's your opinion and your right as a fan, but give me a break about why this team's season derailed. The running game is non-existent. The pass rush is equally absent. The Eagles are number 1 in the league in rushing yards per game. They average 188.9 rushing yards per game. Miami is 22nd in the league in rushing yard with 110 yards per game. Denver is number one in sacks this with 44. Miami is 31st with a whopping 21 sacks. Tua's current QB rating is third at 108. The two QBs ahead of him are Jared Goff and Lamar Jackson. He's completing 74.5% of his passes which is best in the league. How anyone can say that Tua is the problem this year, in my opinion, isn't being objective. Grier built this O Line. He let Wilkins, Davis, Van Ginkel, and Hunt leave in free agency and replaced them with... a near 40 year old part time player (who's played great) and nothing else. As long as Grier is calling the player personnel shots, Miami will remain irrelevant. I have no idea how Grier has kept his job this long, but it clearly has nothing to do with how successful the team has been under his stewardship of the team.

The 2020 draft was screwed up for us when we beat Cincy in 2019. We'd have picked Burrow. I believe we were on record as having tried to trade up to #1. Love or Herbert (who I don't think is any more clutch than Tua) wouldn't have been considerations.

And, if we want to squeeze add'l lemon juice onto that paper cut, we could have had:
- Justin Jefferson instead of Austin Jackson. If we'd had him, doubtful we spend the $ on Tyreek and could have used it on other positions of need (like perhaps a RT among other things).
- Jonathan Taylor (among many other better options) instead of Noah Igbonoghane

Free agency f'in sucked that year for us, too. Grier had $100M to spend and picked up Byron White, Van Noy, the EDGE from Buffalo and the OG from Washington. None of them provided any significant long-term value and, I believe, 3 of the 4 were gone after 1 season. Heck, we basically paid Washington to take the OG back.

Obviously teams miss on picks & FA. But the whole approach for 2020+ started with getting the #1 pick. We couldn't even fail properly.

It's not Grier's fault that we won a stupid game in 2019 against Cincy...but he's not done nearly well enough in the most significant GM opportunity we've probably ever had, namely stewarding the re-build so that we're consistently competing for championships.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/02/2024 06:14AM by tsstamper.

tsstamper Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> - Justin Jefferson instead of Austin Jackson. If
> we'd had him, doubtful we spend the $ on Tyreek
> and could have used it on other positions of need
> (like perhaps a RT among other things).
> - Jonathan Taylor (among many other better
> options) instead of Noah Igbonoghane
>
>

Sorry for the mistaken post. I was pretty shook up being reminded that we could've had Justin Jefferson and Jonathan Taylor instead of Austin Jackson and Noah Ibinoghene. Lemon juice? More like hydrochloric acid.

Tua has more TD passes than Herbert this year in 4 fewer games. Herbert isn't all that. Love went 21 and sat for 3 years. That comparison is purely hindsight.

Tough teams play tough in the trenches. We're loaded at RB and WR. That's now how you build a tough team.

Our oline has been a joke for years. Grier was in total control of the rebuild. His signature hire was Brian Flores. GRIER chose Tua whom Flores didn't want. He won the pissing match and fired Flores. I'm ok with McD because he's at least gotten us to the playoffs 2 consecutive years. He's a first time HC that needs to speed up his progress.

Grier threw in the towel with the rebuild when he traded for Hill. We went from "building it the right way" to win now mode. He's soley to blame for this mess and should be shown the door. When we finish 7-10 he needs to be gone the day after our last game. If Ross wasn't such a metrosexual puss, he'd fire him now to send a message to the team.

100% without even a .00000001% doubt. I'm sick of Grier's drafts (if he is still in charge next year, I'm sure with the first pick, he'll take another corner who will only make the roster because he's an early pick and then just sign a tackle or guard who went undrafted as an after thought). I can guarantee he'll extend Eichenberg and Jones and laugh when asked about why there were no upgrades to the O line. The Lions have done a masterful job with their roster and Ray Agnew has been assisting Brad Holmes as assistant GM. Someone like him needs to replace the current albatross who's accomplished nothing in over a decade.

Yeah, that's a kick to the goods.

I'm probably not alone in not having forgotten that we were projected to have picked Brees in the draft (but took Jamar Fletcher) and then 4 yrs later Brees basically begged us to take him as a free agent and we "went another direction" with Culpepper. The domino effect of that decision(s) was probably the most significant of anything that's happened to the team since the JJ/Marino era.

You people are completely ridiculous. All you do is quote statistics, but statistics DON'T WIN GAMES! Quarterbacks are supposed to do that. Tagovailoa can put up great stats against inferior competition, but he doesn't win the games that he needs to win. He is a LOSER! there are plenty of things that you can blame our lousy record on, but these are mainly excuses because too many of you don't WANT to admit that our loser QB is the main one.

Rick

dolphan4545 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You people are completely ridiculous. All you do
> is quote statistics, but statistics DON'T WIN
> GAMES! Quarterbacks are supposed to do that.
> Tagovailoa can put up great stats against inferior
> competition, but he doesn't win the games that he
> needs to win. He is a LOSER! there are plenty of
> things that you can blame our lousy record on, but
> these are mainly excuses because too many of you
> don't WANT to admit that our loser QB is the main
> one.

Dude. Your pissed .I get it. But laser focusing on one person....almost obsessing on him isnt going to change anything. And disrespecting others here only makes you look bad.

TUA had a bad day today. But he is not the reason we are where we are.

TUA is a cog on a giant wheel of missing teeth. Half the time that wheel still finds a way to spin....missing teeth and all. Other times the teeth turn and all the gears collide and the weakness is more apparent. That was today. You rip that gear out.....several others are still spinning and will eventually fail as well. Coaching is the oil that stops the friction , it sets the timing and degree angle so it runs flawlessly. Car is broken down and needs a tow , it needs to be repaired not replaced

GO DOLPHINS!!!!

We'd almost certainly be in position to make the playoffs (i.e. one of the top 7 teams right now) if Tua hadn't been hurt for those 4 games earlier this season. Referencing 'he is not the reason we are where we are'. For me, though, that's not the point.

I don't think any of us need the full details behind these, but:
- 2020 last game against BUF. Win & in...Buffalo has nothing to play for. Tua enters the game 10-2 TD/INT ratio...comes out of it 11-5. We lose 56-26. No playoffs.
- 2021 & 2022 I basically look at like a lost 1.5 yrs for Tua, except that the transition to McD happened. With 2 co-OC's + some other dude calling the plays in 2021...what a cluster. 2022 concussion city.
- 2023 finally a fully healthy season for him. Playoff seeding...home playoff game or freeze in KC. Buffalo held to 21 points, but 14 are an incredibly lucky tipped pass caught for a TD and ST return for TD. Tua 17-27 for 173, 1 TD 2 INT. Claypool blamed for poor route run on nail-in-the-coffin INT.
- This year he knows he can stay healthy from the prior year...and what happens if doesn't...but still chooses to ram his head into Hamlin. Now, because he did that and put us in the position we were, he has to rise up in the key moments to keep playoff hopes alive...and does what he did yesterday. And, Tyreek getting (probably deservedly) heat for route running, not fighting as hard as he could have for the ball.

In those games where the rubber met the road and playoffs or critical seeding were on the line, he's thrown for an average of 1 TD and 2.67 INT. I didn't bother looking up lost fumbles.

Whether any of us like it or not, the QB has a dramatically outsized influence on the success or failure of the team in any given game. I personally don't like it. But that and $6 gets me a cup of starbux coffee sans tip.

I'm struggling with 2 aspects:
1. more often than I think is right (and as crazy as it sounds considering how much bashing he gets), Tua doesn't get as much blame as he deserves in these critical games (see Claypool/Reek notes above). Last year the defense was decimated, but held Buffalo to 7 earned points (excluding the lucky tip TD and return). This year, we're missing our top 3 OT and pressure was hot & heavy all day. But, on his 3 INT, his throws weren't (to my recollection) impacted by the pressure (i.e. he wasn't throwing with someone draped all over him). He said after the HOU game 'just my fault'. I'm not questioning whether he took accountability for yesterday's game, but what he can actually do about it. I think it's inarguable that it's a fairly deep-set pattern. Whether he can change it is potentially arguable, but seems less likely with every game like it.
2. can a team consistently compete for super bowls with a QB who consistently performs that way in 'moment of truth' games. Obviously it makes it more difficult...but is it even possible?

First: I do NOT 'hate' on anyone, that is an overused and incorrect usage of the word. I do not 'hate' Tagovailoa, he's my quarterback. What I 'hate' is losing! And Tua is much too good at it.

All the things you mentioned certainly contributed to the loss, but the QB is the ONLY player to touch the ball on every play. He just doesn't have IT.

Rick