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          Dolphins rank among other losers
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This is a moderated phorum for the CIVILIZED discussion of the Miami Dolphins. In this phorum, there are rules and moderators to make sure you abide by the rules. The moderators for this phorum are JC and Colonel
Dolphins rank among other losers
Posted by: colonel ()
Date: October 26, 2018 05:58AM

What makes a team exceptional while others teams have pathetic losing records? Is it ownership, management, coaching, bad decisions on free agents, draft choices and final roster picks?

In the case of our Dolphins, being a loyal fan since the beginning of the franchise, I have to answer my own question with "all of the above." The exceptional teams seem to have superior ownership, management, coaching, make good decisions on free agents, draft choices and final roster picks. The Dolphins are weak in all those areas for the most part IMO.

Currently we are on a slide toward the bottom or near bottom of the AFC East. Bills hold the cellar with a 2-5 record. The Jets are a bit better with a 3-4 record, and seem to be getting better.

In the AFC North the Browns are still bumbling along despite strong draft picks and hold the cellar with a 2-4 record.

In the AFC south the cellar dweller are the Colts with a 2-5 record. Wasn't Luck supposed to be the next P Manning?

In the NFC East the cellar is occupied by the Giants who have an aging Eli Manning and serious problems everywhere.

In the NFC North the Bears and Lions are tied with 3 wins and 3 losses a piece. Both teams are better than the Dolphins IMO.

In the NFC South the Falcons are stumbling with a 3-4 record. They have problems too but may turn things around and improve.

In the NFC West, both the Cardinals and 49ers are fighting to be worst in that division. Both are tied with one victory and 6 losses.

We do the Dolphins rank in the unexceptional category of losing teams? Hard to say, but I think we are equal to the Colts, better than the Raiders and Cleveland, Cardinals and 49ers. The differences between all of them are marginal at best. All of these teams could improve with a few wins equaling the Dolphins current record. We need to revisit this topic in a few weeks.

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Re: Dolphins rank among other losers
Posted by: Fins72 ()
Date: October 26, 2018 06:24AM


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Re: Dolphins rank among other losers
Posted by: colonel ()
Date: October 26, 2018 08:30AM

Fins72, I remember reading your post above mentioned.

During the early '90s the military became heavily involved with Quality Force Management. Most officers I was involved with received considerable teaching and training into this concept and one of the things presented early on was to seek out the very best. It may have been a process, product etc.

The object was to evaluate a particular process and determine what was truly the best way to do something. We kept statistical data as a means of seeing deficiencies as well as gains and significant improvements. Another thing of importance that came out of this was benchmarking.

If we found a process that was head and shoulders superior to anything else, that became the benchmark. And that benchmark was something we used to help us streamline various processes. We examined how the benchmark process worked and worked hard to emulate it and if reached to do things that would surpass the benchmark.

In the case of the Dolphins, Ross, and management would examine several of the best franchises in NFL history and see how they operate and what they do to excel on the playing field. It would include every facet of the NFL business. If applied correctly they would have a large number of benchmarks. Example: The best way to market the Dolphins; the best way to work with stadium vendors, the best way to hire and use scouts, the best way to keep the field in top shape; the best way to reduce costs to run the office; the best practices in hiring the most qualified executive officers, mid management people, head coaches, assistants etc. They would work these things down to a science. There would truly be a method to their madness.

The Dolphins have no concept of Quality Force Management. It is evident from what this franchise has experienced since the Joe Robbie days.

We need ownership that understands this concept, uses it and who will develop a solid management team. Once this is done, selecting a top notch coach and building a first class team will follow.

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Re: Dolphins rank among other losers
Posted by: colonel ()
Date: October 26, 2018 02:12PM

I'm going to jump in and make another post after watching Adam Gase's Post game media interview following the Dolphins loss to the Texans.

After listening to Coach Gase and seeing his demeanor I can unequivocally opine that he will never turn this team around. I've commented before that he has a poor self image. Wearing a cap, using the cap to hide is eyes and part of his face, not looking at the person who is asking a question, not standing up straight, holding on to the lecturn, being unshaven and looking totally disheveled in a T-shirt. He presents a loser's image.

Does anyone ever recall Don Shula addressing the news and sportscasters after a loss and acting like he was mugged and not in control? That answer is NO. Don Shula was tough, sure of himself and his coaching staff and always exhibited a positive despite coming off a loss. Again, I must expound that Gase is not a leader, never will be in the context of being a HC and needs to be replaced.

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Re: Dolphins rank among other losers
Posted by: 808phan ()
Date: October 26, 2018 03:10PM

Colonel I agree with your assessment of Gase. Problem is that in order for any respectable coach to come to Miami, the upper level management will have to simultaneously change too but I seriously doubt Ross will have what it takes to make that happen. Nothing but the same will happen again if/when Gase gets fired - Nobody but another coordinator or assistant from somewhere will want to coach this team and we'll see the same thing happening again as long as Grier & Tbum are in charge.

The situation with this franchise reminds me of an Air Force MHE operator loading an aircraft - "You're only as good as your spotter".

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Re: Dolphins rank among other losers
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: October 26, 2018 03:14PM

As I said before, I apologize to JSM08 for all the grief I gave denouncing Philbin. Gase is far worse.

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Re: Dolphins rank among other losers
Posted by: dolphan4545 ()
Date: October 27, 2018 11:35AM

colonel Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm going to jump in and make another post after
> watching Adam Gase's Post game media interview
> following the Dolphins loss to the Texans.
>
> After listening to Coach Gase and seeing his
> demeanor I can unequivocally opine that he will
> never turn this team around. I've commented before
> that he has a poor self image. Wearing a cap,
> using the cap to hide is eyes and part of his
> face, not looking at the person who is asking a
> question, not standing up straight, holding on to
> the lecturn, being unshaven and looking totally
> disheveled in a T-shirt. He presents a loser's
> image.
>
> Does anyone ever recall Don Shula addressing the
> news and sportscasters after a loss and acting
> like he was mugged and not in control? That answer
> is NO. Don Shula was tough, sure of himself and
> his coaching staff and always exhibited a positive
> despite coming off a loss. Again, I must expound
> that Gase is not a leader, never will be in the
> context of being a HC and needs to be replaced.

Colonel:
While I agree with your assessment of Shoes' post-game presser demeanor, I don't agree with your assessment of Gase. I don't think a poor self-image is his problem. He looks to me like he's trying to present his own version of Belicheck's press conference demeanor. And, that is my assessment of him: he reminds me of a young Belichick in his Cleveland days, with the exception of the presence of a brilliantly talented group of assistant coaches. He is arrogantly (controlled arrogance is not a bad trait in a head coach) certain of his ability to run a high-scoring offense, but he's young and while he has shown flashes of excellent ability, he hasn't learned balance or the fact that he CAN'T allow the defense to be a completely separate entity with no input from him as a HC, or that sometimes loyalty can be misplaced. I do believe he can and will learn these things, and, if we can be patient until then, we will have something special. He IS learning, he is slowly incorporating some balance into his offenses, he just has to learn to stop hating the running game and use it appropriately.

Rick

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Re: Dolphins rank among other losers
Posted by: dolphan4545 ()
Date: October 27, 2018 11:38AM

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As I said before, I apologize to JSM08 for all the
> grief I gave denouncing Philbin. Gase is far
> worse.


Gase is worse than Philbin? Ridiculous. And, totally wrong.

Rick

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Re: Dolphins rank among other losers
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: October 27, 2018 12:18PM

Those adjectives apply to you, Rick. Not only totally wrong in your opinions but that those opinions are ridiculous.

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Re: Dolphins rank among other losers
Posted by: dolphan4545 ()
Date: October 27, 2018 12:47PM

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As I said before, I apologize to JSM08 for all the
> grief I gave denouncing Philbin. Gase is far
> worse.


Gase is worse than Philbin? Ridiculous. And, totally wrong.

Rick

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Re: Dolphins rank among other losers
Posted by: dolphan4545 ()
Date: October 27, 2018 12:49PM

You are entitled to your opinions. And, so am I.

Rick



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/27/2018 12:51PM by dolphan4545.

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Re: Dolphins rank among other losers
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: October 27, 2018 01:39PM

Rick, your 12:38 AND your 1:47 posts are exactly the same and separated only by one of my posts. Do you think that if you repeat it more times it will EVEN BEGIN to make sense???????????????????

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Re: Dolphins rank among other losers
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: October 27, 2018 02:07PM

It won't.

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Re: Dolphins rank among other losers
Posted by: colonel ()
Date: October 27, 2018 02:32PM

Rick--
It's okay for you to disagree with me on my leadership assessment of Gase. You have a different perspective and that's fine. Besides, I sure don't know for certain whether my opinion is correct. Just my two cents. smiling bouncing smiley

My perspective comes from spending a large part of my adult life as a military officer where leadership qualities were very important. There were all types of leaders observed. Some were quiet, some bold, some brash, some calm, some over the top...what they all had in common was a certain presence and behavioral demeanor. None that I saw ever acted like Adam Gase while the crap was hitting the fan.

We may find out in the months ahead or perhaps years (I hope not, years) to come how Gase progresses. I sense that the Peter Principle is in full swing with him.

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Re: Dolphins rank among other losers
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: October 27, 2018 08:11PM

Coach W L T W-L%
Adam Gase 2016-18 40 20 20 0 .500
DCampbell 2015 2015 12 5 7 0 .417
J Philbin 2012 2015 52 24 28 0 .462
T Bowles 2011 2011 3 2 1 0 .667
T Sparano 2008 2011 61 29 32 0 .475
C Cameron 2007 2007 16 1 15 0 .063
N Saban 2005 2006 32 15 17 0 .469
Jim Bates 2004 2004 7 3 4 0 .429
Wannstedt 2000 2004 73 42 31 0 .575
J Johnson 1996 1999 64 36 28 0 .563
D Shula+ 1970 1995 392 257 133 2 .659
G Wilson 1966 1969 56 15 39 2 .278

Obviously for the stat geeks.


The most fascinating stat to me is to observe that Shula coached the most games by a great amount yet had the best record except for Todd Bowles who only coached 6 games.

So there! To you young whippersnappers who always criticize us old farts for living in the past.

This is why we do.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/27/2018 08:55PM by ChyrenB.

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Re: Dolphins rank among other losers
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: October 27, 2018 09:32PM


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Re: Dolphins rank among other losers
Posted by: Fins72 ()
Date: October 28, 2018 05:53AM

In my opinion, coaching wise, it's Don Shula then Jimmy Johnson and no one else. We haven't had a decent head coach since Jimmy (and unfortunately, we got Jimmy after he'd lost the fire in his belly for winning but at least he was a masterful drafter). As far as Gase goes, he's stubborn to a fault. Being stubborn isn't necessarily a bad thing for a coach, but it is when you're wrong and won't change or evolve from the experience. I don't find him flexible the way Don Shula was when he went from a run run run and occasionally pass offense to a pass happy offense when Danny was drafted. Sometimes you have to change things to make them work. I absolutely believe that on the next 3rd or 4th and 1, Gase will call a pass play again and again. It's more important for him to be right than it is to be successful. That is a bad quality for a head coach.

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Re: Dolphins rank among other losers
Posted by: dolphan4545 ()
Date: October 28, 2018 06:18PM

colonel Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Rick--
> It's okay for you to disagree with me on my
> leadership assessment of Gase. You have a
> different perspective and that's fine. Besides, I
> sure don't know for certain whether my opinion is
> correct. Just my two cents. smiling bouncing smiley
>
> My perspective comes from spending a large part of
> my adult life as a military officer where
> leadership qualities were very important. There
> were all types of leaders observed. Some were
> quiet, some bold, some brash, some calm, some over
> the top...what they all had in common was a
> certain presence and behavioral demeanor. None
> that I saw ever acted like Adam Gase while the
> crap was hitting the fan.
>
> We may find out in the months ahead or perhaps
> years (I hope not, years) to come how Gase
> progresses. I sense that the Peter Principle is in
> full swing with him.

And my two cents. As for the Peter Principle, you may be correct, but I believe that he has a chance of becoming the competent leader that we need at this level. Whether we can wait that long is another matter.

Rick

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Re: Dolphins rank among other losers
Posted by: dolphan4545 ()
Date: October 29, 2018 07:16PM

Shula had the rare ability to tailor his offense to the talent he had available. Gase hasn't shown that ability. Very few other coaches have had that ability either, but that is why Shula is the winningest coach in pro football history.

Rick

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Re: Dolphins rank among other losers
Date: October 31, 2018 07:17AM

But........they dump Landry for nothing.

GO DOLPHINS!!!!

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Re: Dolphins rank among other losers
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: October 31, 2018 11:59AM

Speaking of the title of this thread, my usual history is to root for us being in the playoffs in the FIRST HALF OF THE SEASON but I end up rooting for the highest draft choice in the SECOND half of the season.

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Re: Dolphins rank among other losers
Posted by: Ken ()
Date: November 02, 2018 02:06PM

colonel Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Rick--
> It's okay for you to disagree with me on my
> leadership assessment of Gase. You have a
> different perspective and that's fine. Besides, I
> sure don't know for certain whether my opinion is
> correct. Just my two cents. smiling bouncing smiley
>
> My perspective comes from spending a large part of
> my adult life as a military officer where
> leadership qualities were very important. There
> were all types of leaders observed. Some were
> quiet, some bold, some brash, some calm, some over
> the top...what they all had in common was a
> certain presence and behavioral demeanor. None
> that I saw ever acted like Adam Gase while the
> crap was hitting the fan.
>
> We may find out in the months ahead or perhaps
> years (I hope not, years) to come how Gase
> progresses. I sense that the Peter Principle is in
> full swing with him.

RE: Wow, I realize the military must have `some` leaders and quality people in it but I spent 6 years in the Army, achieved the rank of E-5 and was offered E-6 if I had re-elisted. In all of that time, only once, did I ever meet an enlisted person (a First Sergeant) over the rank of E-5 that was worth his salt. Everyone else was not worth wearing the uniform. Also, I only met two officers or Warrant Officers that were any good at anything at all. (One was a Lieutenant and the other a Captain) No one over that rank was in my experience was worth drawing another breath. Obviously, YMMV.

Now, don't think I'm down on the military, I think everyone should have to serve. I wouldn't be the person I am today without my experience in it. I also wouldn't have the job I have, the position I have and my son wouldn't be who he is nor would half of my extended family be who they grew into. I learned alot had quite a few great experiences and made a few lifelong friends. But for it being a model training ground for leaders (at least in the 80s) not so much. Maybe things have changed since 1990.

Ok, back to football.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/02/2018 02:07PM by Ken.

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Re: Dolphins rank among other losers
Posted by: colonel ()
Date: November 03, 2018 02:18AM

Ken, sorry to learn about your horrific military experience with others you served with. My experience was just the opposite.

From time to time my position required me to work with members of sister services. All of them without question proved they were honored to wear their respective uniform and always came through with the job or task at hand.

My experience with enlisted was also very solid. While there were several Gomer Pyle types that eventually were administratively discharged because of being ill-suited for military service, most others worked hard. It was more than just a job to them. I wrote enlisted performance reports for my E-5s--E-8s. Wrote Officer Performance Reports as well and kept book on all of them to ensure they were excelling and mentored them all to eventually take my place. All and all the service members, men and women, I came in contact with or had responsibility for were top notch in every way. When they excelled, I reaped the benefit. Loyalty up, loyalty down.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/03/2018 04:38AM by colonel.

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Re: Dolphins rank among other losers
Posted by: fiedlerhater ()
Date: November 03, 2018 08:16PM

well for what ever my two cents mean, this team is really going nowhere fast, gase is way way over his head, and honestly doesnt have a clue. He is way more Gomer Pyle, than pappy boyington. He couldnt lead this team out of the tunnel.

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Re: Dolphins rank among other losers
Posted by: samsam3738 ()
Date: November 04, 2018 03:12PM

fiedlerhater Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> well for what ever my two cents mean, this team is
> really going nowhere fast, gase is way way over
> his head, and honestly doesnt have a clue. He is
> way more Gomer Pyle, than pappy boyington. He
> couldnt lead this team out of the tunnel.


ANSWER TO THE SCARECROW FROM THE WIZARD OF OZ: WE BEAT THE JETS.....TAKE THAT RIGHT DOWN YOUR THROAT.

BEAT EM TWICE.

TIME FOR YOU TO EAT SOME CROW,

smoking smiley

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Re: Dolphins rank among other losers
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: November 04, 2018 03:15PM

Hey, Sam. Fiedlerhater is no more down on the team than you or I.

And no, TC, I'm not saying that Sam and I are negative Nancys.

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