Yeah, read the article earlier myself ... goes to show you what the media does to keep the jaws flappin.

I'm not sure a little extra confidence isn't a good thing, and also to curb your mouth is also a good thing.

To have listened to the media this week however you'd of thought he was cut from the TO mold.

Hope we have the coaching staff to get him ready early, we really need to gel the secondary asap to complete with the schedule and wrs we'll face this year.

On the good news side ... we can only go up in pass defense, and last year our biggest defense weakness was on 3rd down. Corner help / improvement is a must.

I like the idea that they drafted two guys who can match up speed and size with guys like Moss.

As rookies they will get toasted, but, in 2010 they will be more experienced and Randy will start losing a step. By 2010 we will have the strongest secondary in the division if not the AFC.

The 'character' stuff allowed a top 10 guy to drop to us at 25th. Thank you very much.

Yeah, Bryan Cox had character issues too, but I sure did love seeing him tell the Buffalo Bill fans they were #1!!!!!!!



HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

Sam Madison, Deion Sanders, Louis Oliver

All were known for having character issues. I'd love to have any of those 3 in their prime right now in aqua & orange.

Could we be so lucky as to have both CB's turn out to be quality starters? We haven't had that luxury since the days of Madison and Surtain...and most teams never have two good corners at the same time.

Will Allen, Vontae Davis, Sean Smith & Eric Green are the top hopefuls going in so these CB's will be on the hot seat...

Jason Allen, Nathan Jones, Joey Thomas, Will Billingsley & Scorpio Babers.

Tyrone Culver, who is a backup SS, handled the nickle duties last year and did pretty well so we will probably only keep 4 corners on the 53 man roster unless one of the other 5 corners listed above step up in a nickle role or can make strong contributions on Special Teams.

If Green and Smith can claim the 3rd & 4th spot then we definitely only keep 4 CB's.

A lot will depend on Sean Smith. If he can prove his worth then we end up with the top 4 CB's, FS and SS in the dime package.

I don't really see any situation where we would keep Jason Allen. Not for the money he makes.

Courtney Bryan will battle 5th rounder Chris Clemons for the backup FS spot.

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“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jason Allen, Nathan Jones, Joey Thomas, Will
> Billingsley & Scorpio Babers.
>
I liked Jones last year. I think, if any of these guys make it, it will be NJ.

> I don't really see any situation where we would
> keep Jason Allen. Not for the money he makes.
>
Agreed. He's had ample time to prove himself. He's been inconsistent at best. He's not a good practice player, so I think he will see the same fate as Wilford. If we couldn't get anything for Beck, I don't see us trading JA either.

Joey Thomas got beat out for the nickle spot by Culver and he is a SS. There is really no way that Smith and Davis aren't going to make the team after we invested high picks for them so where does Thomas fit if he couldn't win the nickle last year. Don't forget, Crocker and Thomas were cut last year and then we resigned Culver after he was waived earlier. Thomas was then added again in late October.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

I think jason allen is a gonner this year. If vontae davis and sean smith pan out and make this team and contribute then jason allen is gone.

Jason Allen is a good special teamer who gives depth at all positions in the secondary. I am not sure they would save much cutting him this year.

He may not be their guy, but until they can save money by cutting him he will be the most expensive nickel or dime back in the league.

I want to keep allen--he doesn't make that much, is a good special teams guy, still has ability and hasn't really played that horribly.

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I want to keep allen--he doesn't make that much,
> is a good special teams guy, still has ability and
> hasn't really played that horribly.

Who would you let go instead? Nathan Jones outplayed JA last year. We'll want to hang on to Will Allen, Smith, and Davis. So, if JA can beat out Green, then sure, but I don't see it happening.

It s time to say that JA is a bust for what we paid for him.

He won't be picked up y anyone else for anywhere near what he has been getting.

If he stays it will be at a re-negotiated price, once the new guys get up to speed.

No team can afford to pay a backup / special teamer what he has been getting.

JA's only chance to keep his money will be a break out year.

Phinjim Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> JA's only chance to keep his money will be a break
> out year.

He's going to have to come in to TC a changed man. He's not a good practice player which means he probably won't get much of a chance to prove himself. Unless he experiences a Cameron Wake-like transformation, I think he's as good as gone.

Realist made a good comment re special team value, but usually the deal's are set up with high back end dollars, which will have to be re-done if he's to stay.

I like the way he tackles and hate his 3rd down coverage

Allen is a bust!

Player Name Signed Thru Base Salary Amortized Signing Bonus Roster Option Bonuses LTBE NLTBE Total Cap Hit Contract Count Top 51 Contracts

J. Allen 2011 1.310 1.325 2.635 51 2.635

A total cap of 2.635 in 2009 will be too high for a back up.

Phinjim Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Player Name Signed Thru Base Salary Amortized
> Signing Bonus Roster Option Bonuses LTBE NLTBE
> Total Cap Hit Contract Count Top 51 Contracts
>
> J. Allen 2011 1.310 1.325 2.635 51 2.635
>
> A total cap of 2.635 in 2009 will be too high for
> a back up.


What was the hit for Wilford and Torbor last year?

montequi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Phinjim Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > JA's only chance to keep his money will be a
> break
> > out year.
>
> He's going to have to come in to TC a changed man.
> He's not a good practice player which means he
> probably won't get much of a chance to prove
> himself. Unless he experiences a Cameron
> Wake-like transformation, I think he's as good as
> gone.

From what I've read from the coaches, practice is not the problem. They teach him what he is doing wrong in practice and he learns the right way and then when he gets put in a game situation her regresses back to old bad habits. He is just not coachable.

The "experiment" is coming to an end. There is no way in Hell he makes the team this year. NO WAY. W.Allen, Davis, Smith, Green and Jones will be our CB's this year. Maybe not even Jones. Like I said before if Clemons and Culver assume the nickle and dime spots then we only keep 4 CB's active.

Allen is not even at the level of a Larry Izzo or Brendon Ayanbadejo on ST's.

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“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> From what I've read from the coaches, practice is
> not the problem. They teach him what he is doing
> wrong in practice and he learns the right way and
> then when he gets put in a game situation her
> regresses back to old bad habits. He is just not
> coachable.
>
Any chance he's tradeable?

If his amoratized signing bonus is $1.325million and he is signed thru 2011, that means his Cap hit for cutting him is $3.975 million minus his salary of $1.31 million which is $2.665 million to let him walk (plus any roster bonuses that already kicked in)

He was one of our best ST tacklers, and he can play all the secondary positions.

Most years we keep 5 CB's and 4 Safeties.

This year it could be 6 and 3 since J. Allen and Sean Smith can both play Safety.

We could see, W. Allen, Vontae Davis, Green,and Nate Jones as CB's

Wilson, Bell, and Clemons at Safety

and Sean Smith and Jason Allen as the CB back-up safety options.

IN Sept. Jason Allen is ready to go and play in the NFL as a Corner or nickel or dime. The rookies may beat him out as the season progresses. but it costs just as much to cut him as it does to keep him.

Too valuable to cut.

It looks like his amortized signing bonus has already been absorbed. He is due a roster/option bonus of 1.325 mil...not amortized bonus. His base salary is 1.31 mil. So it seems as though if we release him we will save 1.325 mil and have a cap hit of 1.31 mil. Maybe not even that much. I doubt he has much guaranteed money remaining.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

Both willford and torbor are way overpaid. Big mistake signing these guys. Who would of known. But you know what they say. Sometimes you have to live with your mistakes. And they have to live with it. HEH.

realist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> He was one of our best ST tacklers, and he can
> play all the secondary positions.
>
That MAY make him tradeable. Wouldn't we avoid the cap hit if we did? Too bad Saban isn't in the NFL anymore, or we could dump Allen on him.

We couldn't even get a 7th round pick for a 2nd round QB. We also couldn't get much for a two year starting center either. Who is going to give up a draft pick for a backup/ST's player that will probably get cut anyway?

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We couldn't even get a 7th round pick for a 2nd
> round QB. We also couldn't get much for a two
> year starting center either. Who is going to give
> up a draft pick for a backup/ST's player that will
> probably get cut anyway?

Beck only played a few games 2 years ago and he stunk. We DID get something for Satele. JA has shown some good skills in games, and I think he has enough to garner at least a low 5th-round pick if not a backup ILB.

montequi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
JA has
> shown some good skills in games, and I think he
> has enough to garner at least a low 5th-round pick
> if not a backup ILB.

Give me a starting ILB. Not another scrub please we have enogh of those.

samsam3738 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> montequi Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> JA has
> > shown some good skills in games, and I think he
> > has enough to garner at least a low 5th-round
> pick
> > if not a backup ILB.
>
> Give me a starting ILB. Not another scrub please
> we have enogh of those.

At worst I'm thinking how we can avoid the cap hit. A starting ILB would be great, but, at minimum, we DO need depth at that position.

Vontae Davis has some maturity issues.
Davis not only has fallen behind fellow rookie Sean Smith in the battle for the right cornerback job, but some of his actions on the field have to be raising some red flags with coaches.

In a punt returning drill Thursday, Davis and Courtney Bryan were assigned to gunner Eric Green. Davis grabbed Green’s jersey when he tried to split the two and held on for a good 20 yards, drawing an obvious holding penalty. At first not seeing the flag, he was high-fiving Bryan afterward and then yukking it up with the official. Special teams coach John Bonamego is not going to be laughing when he looks at the tape of that screwup. - Brian Biggane

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers