This is a moderated phorum for the CIVILIZED discussion of the Miami Dolphins. In this phorum, there are rules and moderators to make sure you abide by the rules. The moderators for this phorum are JC and Colonel.
The 4.72 is not necessarily too slow but it's borderline. He dropped 12 lbs to run the 40. He still looked flabby around the middle. He's going to need to work on his upper body strength and eliminate that baby fat in the NFL. He is not well developed in the upper body. He declined to bench at the combine so I'm guessing he is weak in that area. He did not have anything special in the ways of TFL's in college.
He didn't really do anything to hurt or help his draft stock.
My question is: You are coming into the NFL as a MLB. Why do you have a gut and so-so arms? Shouldn't you be ripped at this point?
Denzel Perryman ran a 4.78, Bernardrick McKinney ran a 4.66 so Ragland is somewhere in between. Physically and speed-wise.
The question is still, "Can he cover and remain on the field"? Channing Crowder ran a 4.62 and couldn't cover to save his life. They say it's about the hips....and that is the knock on him.
The 4.72 didn't really tell much. Mayock said (beofre the combine) he is a top 20 pick who can run your defense. Top 20 is not top 8. I haven't heard much else after workouts. If they decide he is just a two down player, I would opt for a FA like James Laurinaitus, Stephen Tulloch, Tahir Whitehead or even Brandon Spikes and spend that # 8 to get more value. Those guys are all 2 down players. (That is if I can't land Derrick Johnson or Rolando or Myles Jack).
We are guaranteed one of these players at 8....
Joey Bosa, DeForest Buckner, Myles Jack, Vernon Hargreaves, Jalen Ramsey, Ronnie Stanley, Laremy Tunsil, A'Shawn Robinson or Ezekial Elliot.
Unless they decide RR is a 3 down, never leave the field 4-3 MLB, I go with one of those.
Drafting players out of Alabama makes me extremely nervous.. There have been so many highly rated busts out of Bama. It seems the coaching, system, and talent around them might make many of the players appear much better then they really are...i.e. Dee Milner Rd1, Dre Kirpatrick Rd1, Mark Barron Rd1, Terrence Cody Rd2, Rolando McClain(maybe not bust but hasnt played up to where he was picked)Rd1, Courtney Upshaw Rd2, Trent Richardson Rd1, etc...... Granted there have been some studs as well, Cj Mosley, Hightower, Julio Jones, etc... But there are enough let downs and busts with early draft picks from Alabama to proceed with extreme caution IMO....
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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche
Crowder52 Wrote:
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> Drafting players out of Alabama makes me extremely
> nervous.. There have been so many highly rated
> busts out of Bama. It seems the coaching, system,
> and talent around them might make many of the
> players appear much better then they really
> are...i.e. Dee Milner Rd1, Dre Kirpatrick Rd1,
> Mark Barron Rd1, Terrence Cody Rd2, Rolando
> McClain(maybe not bust but hasnt played up to
> where he was picked)Rd1, Courtney Upshaw Rd2,
> Trent Richardson Rd1, etc...... Granted there
> have been some studs as well, Cj Mosley,
> Hightower, Julio Jones, etc... But there are
> enough let downs and busts with early draft picks
> from Alabama to proceed with extreme caution
> IMO....
Kirkpatrick and Barron I would not consider bust. The rams seem to be happy w/ Barron's play at OLB. TB had him at strong safet if I remember correctly. Kirkpatrick has made plays in CIN a team that is deep at CB. Cody (weight), Upshaw (position) McClain (attitude) all had red flags coming out of BAMA. Some had questions regarding Richardson's commitment. Milner yes has been a big disappointment but its ok he is w/ the Jets.
Back to Joe re: Ragland: Do I think 8th is too high to draft him, yes. He's not Top 10 talent for 31 teams in the NFL.
However, if you believe, like I did (at the time that I wrote that), our major concern on defense was MLB then I think you draft him in the 1st round. Sure, trade down if you can, but the top MLB should be our target.
Having moved down from 8 to 13 makes Ragland more of a "value" pick, but I'll still admit 13 might be too high for him. In the scheme of the entire draft, I'd put a low 1st round grade on him. Not high first or middle first. But that's the difference between drafting for need or drafting BPA and while I normally support BPA, I think we missed out big time last year by not drafting Perryman. I didn't want Perryman at #14 overall, but that was the player I would have been targeting and would have traded down in the first to get before he went to the Chargers a few spots before us in the 2nd. Sure, we would have lost out on Parker but if we didn't have Parker, we'd probably have kept Matthews this offseason who was just coming into his own.
We were stocked at WR, we were naked at MLB.
We're still naked at MLB. And really OLB and DL and really everywhere except for WR where we've never really had a huge hole at - we've only had room for improvement.
Make our B squads an A or our C+ squads B+ squads but we leave our D and F squads and D's and F's and we wonder why we aren't winning games.
This goes for our OG positions as well as our LB positions, by the way.
Damn glad we signed two backup swing tackles! MONEY BABY.
We've got better depth now at OT in case our two highly paid or highly drafted OT's go down with injury. Our started guards that suck when healthy though? Let's not address that issue.
"Make our B squads an A or our C+ squads B+ squads but we leave our D and F squads and D's and F's and we wonder why we aren't winning games.
This goes for our OG positions as well as our LB positions, by the way.
Damn glad we signed two backup swing tackles! MONEY BABY.
We've got better depth now at OT in case our two highly paid or highly drafted OT's go down with injury. Our started guards that suck when healthy though? Let's not address that issue."
Pete Prisco at CBS has us taking Paxton Lynch. Rob Rang has us taking Eli Apple. Other have us taking Kevin Dodd or Jack Conklin or Cody Whitehair...yikes!
JoeFootball Wrote:
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> Pete Prisco at CBS has us taking Paxton Lynch. Rob
> Rang has us taking Eli Apple. Other have us taking
> Kevin Dodd or Jack Conklin or Cody
> Whitehair...yikes!
>
> In other words, nobody knows. LOL
The mock with the Paxton Lynch pick was last updated on the 7th, which was before our trade with the Eagles was confirmed. So I suspect that that pick was for the Eagles, not us?
Eli Apple could be a possibility, though is a bit of a reach even at #13; and I don't see Jack Conklin being a viable option unless he is viewed as a guard or we are planning to move James to RG and bring Conklin in at RT.
JoeFootball Wrote:
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> Pete Prisco at CBS has us taking Paxton Lynch. Rob
> Rang has us taking Eli Apple. Other have us taking
> Kevin Dodd or Jack Conklin or Cody
> Whitehair...yikes!
>
> In other words, nobody knows. LOL
With the many holes Miami has to fill, I can't see Miami taking Lynch, or any QB for that matter, at 13.
For the rest of them, Miami can go BPA, no matter the position, because as I said above, Miami has too many holes. QB is the only position I would not take at 13.
Because we dropped to 13, if Hargreaves is there, snap him up. However, highly doubtful he will be available. Probably a top 10 pick.
1 Ten: Laremy Tunsil
2 Cle: Carson Wentz
3 SD: Jalen Ramsey
4 Dal: DeForest Buckner
5 Jax: Myles Jack
6 LA: Jared Goff (trade)
7 SF: Vernon Hargreaves
8 Phi: Ezekial Elliott
9 TB: Joey Bosa
10 NYG: Ronnie Stanley
11 Chi: Leonard Floyd
12 NO: A'Shawn Robinson
13 Mia:
Ironically, Miami is the hardest team for me to project. Mike T could do anything. Logically, they take the top corner back....either Eli Apple or William Jackson III.
Looking at the roster and projecting their philosophy, CB is the biggest need right now.
They could pull a move out of left field and get enamored with the speed of Darron Lee and try to upgrade WLB but I think they are more likely to go after Su'a Cravens in round 2.
They could draft Ragland and put him at SLB but that would be a waste of a high pick on a 2 down position AND Misi's contract shows he will start at SLB so maybe they put RR at MLB and move Alonso to WLB. Both these scenarios are less likely, IMO.
They "think" they have fixed the DE spot with 4 of these guys....
Cameron Wake, Mario Williams, Andre Branch, Demontre Moore, Terrence Fede, Chris McCain, Dion Jordan, Cleyon Laing, Julius Warmsley
...so I don't see them reaching for a DE at 13.
They "think" they have secured the o-line with these starters....
LT Albert
LG Bushrod
C Pouncey
RG Turner
RT James
and 3 of these reserves....Sam Young, Kraig urbik and Jamil Douglas OR Dallas Thomas.
...so I don' think they go after Jack Conklin at 13.
I believe they will go after a RB in the 2nd or 3rd round but at this point it is hard to figure what hell Tannebaum will bring.
That's a lot of projecting...making 3 players switch positions.
Urbik was a career RG until he was benched and then inserted to LG for half the year as injury replacement. He's average at best even though he was better than any guard we had. I would rather upgrade. I view him as a decent backup.
James a career RT in college and NFL.
Bushrod career LT college and NFL. Only practiced at G/C/RT
Our line was good when Pouncey, Albert and James were starting but they only played like 5 games together. I think we were 4-1.
Theoretically (with the line healthy and) with Urbik as an upgrade at RG and competition to Turner, we cold be better.
Theoretically, with Bushrod as LG, we would be drastically improved from Dallas Thomas.
Injury WILL happen on the line in 2016. It's good that we have Bushrod as insurance for Albert. Both will be 32 this year. problem being if Albert goes down, Bushrod moves and someone gets inserted at LG. It affects two spots.
I hold little hope for anything more from Young than what Fox offered.
I would still draft a tackle who can also play LG.
I don't see Mike T taking a CB other than VH or JL at 13, reaching at 13 for a corner because of the need, don't see it. They will go bpa imo, and the available CBs after the top two will not be bpa, can't miss prospects, etc.
I think they drafted bpa last year and it worked out great with Parker. And even in the second round, they drafted bpa in Phillips.
Here is what I mean by bpa. A player who jumps off the tape, has played at an elite level, and has elite athleticism to confirm the tape. Athleticism is obtained from the measurables, combine, workouts.
Obviously the second rd players will be less elite than the first rd and so forth, or at least should be.
I don't see how anyone can grade Eli Apple or Alexandre for example higher than Doctson or Henry. They don't jump off tape or have the measurables.
Another way to say this is, there is nothing in Apple's game that makes you say this guy is fast, or explosive, or powerful, let me watch the combine to find out how that is so, or let me attend his workout so that I can verify what I see on film.
That was not the case with Phillips last yr. Phillips in college jumps of the tape as an athletic freak for a DT and you cant wait to find out his measurables to verify. Same with Parker. Same Jalen and Vernon this year. Jalen being bigger, all other things equal, he is rated higher than Vernon.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/31/2016 06:21PM by thegreathoo.
Well, if Tannenbaum is taking BPA then get ready for a redshirt season from Jaylon Smith at 13 if he gets a thumbs up on his medical recheck. We already know he doesn't mind taking injured players.
DeVante Parker (foot issues) was a need pick as much as he may have been BPA.
Jordan Phillips (back issues) may have jumped of the tape in his college years but only if you watched half the tape. The knock on him was taking plays off and disappearing for long stretches. He was known as boom or bust. Plus we traded down.
JoeFootball Wrote:
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> Well, if Tannenbaum is taking BPA then get ready
> for a redshirt season from Jaylon Smith at 13 if
> he gets a thumbs up on his medical recheck. We
> already know he doesn't mind taking injured
> players.
>
> DeVante Parker (foot issues) was a need pick as
> much as he may have been BPA.
>
> Jordan Phillips (back issues) may have jumped of
> the tape in his college years but only if you
> watched half the tape. The knock on him was taking
> plays off and disappearing for long stretches. He
> was known as boom or bust. Plus we traded down.
I agree with ya, Joe, about J. Smith, and I believe I posted something to that affect some time back.
Miami (probably) is not going to make the playoffs this year, and maybe not even a winning record. Whomever they get at 13 is not going to push them into playoff contention. Despite the additions Miami has made this off season, these guys will not make much of a difference from last year's team. The only one that I can see that could possibly make a difference is Alonso, and that is only if he comes back well from that injury.
I don't have a problem with taking a chance on Smith. If this guy plays like he is capable of, Miami could possibly have their next super star; if he can't come back from his injury, well, at least Miami gave it a shot.
However, in that scenario, Miami's next picks (2nd and 3rd round) better be good ones.
The value of Jaylon Is in the fourth rd. As you said, a good case scenario is he will redshirt. There have been som athletic olb coming out recently like Kendricks and Telvin Smith. So imo there is likelihood there will be another one in next year's draft. Id be willing to pick Jaylon in the fourth and redshirt him and pay him that rookie salary for the benefit of having him ready in 2017 and saving that 2017 pick for some other position. The risk of picking him higher than that is just too high considering there maybe another olb available in the 3d rd who can help the team in 2016, Deion Jones for example, Perry or Cravens.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/01/2016 01:12PM by thegreathoo.
I dont agree that Williams is useless, that we need a run stuffing DT, and that Landry was the only great pick.
Moreover I dont view Landry as an elite player. He was a good pick, not a great pick imo. He is an effort guy. Parker is elite. Parker is the best Dolphins pick since Marino. That's how I see it.