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          Viking game thread...
Re: Viking game thread...
Posted by: JoeFootball ()
Date: December 21, 2014 11:31AM

JoeFootball Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Time for redemption by DEFENSE!

Now that is what you call redemption! Nice Job.

Re: Viking game thread...
Posted by: Jim B ()
Date: December 21, 2014 11:33AM

Crazy game... Our fans in the stadium got their money's worth today.

Way to go 7th rounder FEDE!

Re: Viking game thread...
Posted by: JC ()
Date: December 21, 2014 12:22PM

JoeFootball Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> JoeFootball Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Time for redemption by DEFENSE!
>
> Now that is what you call redemption! Nice Job.


Yep...and although I usually don't do it, I gave up on us after giving up 15 points within how many seconds? Shame on me and great job phins!

Re: Viking game thread...
Posted by: JC ()
Date: December 21, 2014 12:33PM

Jim B Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Crazy game... Our fans in the stadium got their
> money's worth today.
>
> Way to go 7th rounder FEDE!


Yep and I gladly point to myself as a fool for saying otherwise earlier. I am really impressed that they bounced back after giving up the two TDs and a 2 pt conversion that quickly. Great job!

Re: Viking game thread...
Posted by: JC ()
Date: December 21, 2014 12:53PM

By the way, does anyone know where the blocked punt landed? Pretty far up into the stands right? Watching the highlight I can't tell.

Re: Viking game thread...
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: December 21, 2014 02:09PM

Well, it figured we would win while being eliminated from the playoffs.

This way we get a later draft choice.

Just our luck.

Re: Viking game thread...
Posted by: angryseasphins ()
Date: December 21, 2014 04:08PM

less our luck and more the makeup of the team..we were officially eliminated so the team came through..something tells me had the steelers lost we would have found a way to crumple and lose

Re: Viking game thread...
Posted by: colonel ()
Date: December 22, 2014 02:59AM

I wasn't able to post during the game but did watch it. I'm glad we won, but what a strange way to win it over another mediocre team.

What I focused on was our (Dolphins) inability to stop the Vikings' offense from scoring. Scoring 35 points against us.... Clearly, our defense has weakened. Playing a so-so Vikings team, the Dolphins should have been able to stymie their offense.

Clay's play was evident...and easy to see how important he is to the offense. Dion Sims also did a good job. thumbs up

To become a playoff caliber team, we'll need to upgrade at LB and D-line. Same for RB--we need a bruiser RB, IMO, to provide more of a running threat. Hartline is not in the game plan and may be on a different team next season.

We play the Jets next Sunday to wrap up things. This game is wholly unimportant to the standings, it may have some impact on draft position, though.

Oh well, another oh-hum season of Dolphins' football. sad smiley

Re: Viking game thread...
Posted by: dolfan1 ()
Date: December 22, 2014 04:59AM

Hope we lose to the jets to get a better draft position. This team will be another 8-8 next year. I am not looking at anything different or expecting anything different. It will be the brady show again in our division. Snd place will go to the bills or us.

Re: Viking game thread...
Posted by: dolphin ()
Date: December 22, 2014 05:23AM

Miller and Williams played GREAT, I don't see a need for an upgrade at RB.

Bridgewater is pretty amazing, the accuracy on his throws were impressive. I liked him coming out of college.

Great win today. The offense played very well.

Re: Viking game thread...
Posted by: montequi ()
Date: December 22, 2014 10:42AM

dolfan1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hope we lose to the jets

As much as it helps our draft position, I CANNOT root for us to lose to the Jets. It's against everything I've learned as a phin fan.

Re: Viking game thread...
Posted by: samsam3738 ()
Date: December 22, 2014 10:43AM

Amen brother.

Re: Viking game thread...
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: December 22, 2014 10:47AM

How much difference would it make, anyway?

Re: Viking game thread...
Posted by: colonel ()
Date: December 22, 2014 03:00PM

ChyrenB--Not much. Earning a higher spot because of losses certainly doesn't guarantee that we'll make a wise selection.

Re: Viking game thread...
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: December 22, 2014 04:57PM

True...but at least you have the opportunity to NOT screw up.

Re: Viking game thread...
Posted by: THE Truth ()
Date: December 23, 2014 04:30AM

That's very true colonel, but if the possibility of failure is reason enough to choose not to put yourself in the best possible position to succeed, then why should any gm, or anyone at all for that matter, bother to even get out of bed in the morning?

Re: Viking game thread...
Posted by: JC ()
Date: December 23, 2014 04:47AM

colonel Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ChyrenB--Not much. Earning a higher spot because
> of losses certainly doesn't guarantee that we'll
> make a wise selection.


I have got to agree.

So many people put so much emphasis on wanting to lose in order to move up in the draft. Then, no matter what position we end up in, we always draft poorly, according to them. If we always draft so poorly, then maybe it doesn't matter so much which position we are in. To me, that's putting the draft before the actual game of football.

Here's how I feel about Sunday: The Dolphins are playing a football game....AGAINST THE JETS. It's a football game. Against our rival. Win it.

Re: Viking game thread...
Posted by: dolphaholic ()
Date: December 23, 2014 05:03AM

JC Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------


> Here's how I feel about Sunday: The Dolphins are
> playing a football game....AGAINST THE JETS. It's
> a football game. Against our rival. Win it.


Agreed! Along those same lines, some posters are already wishing for a new coach after next year, no matter if you like Philbin or not, shouldn't you root for your teams success above all? Makes no sense

Re: Viking game thread...
Posted by: THE Truth ()
Date: December 23, 2014 05:13AM

JC Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> colonel Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > ChyrenB--Not much. Earning a higher spot
> because
> > of losses certainly doesn't guarantee that
> we'll
> > make a wise selection.
>
>
> I have got to agree.
>
> So many people put so much emphasis on wanting to
> lose in order to move up in the draft. Then, no
> matter what position we end up in, we always draft
> poorly, according to them. If we always draft so
> poorly, then maybe it doesn't matter so much which
> position we are in. To me, that's putting the
> draft before the actual game of football.
>
> Here's how I feel about Sunday: The Dolphins are
> playing a football game....AGAINST THE JETS. It's
> a football game. Against our rival. Win it.

I hear you JC, but when this season ends after the super bowl and the offseason begins in March, how exactly does going 9-7 and picking 20th help us chase the only goal that matters... Winning a super bowl again... More than finishing 8-8 and picking 13th?

Sure it's nice to beat the jests. But that short lived pride means nothing when the season is over and we pushed ourselves down in the draft and elevated an arch rival in the process.

If we lose to the jets we actually win...twice.

We get a pick with higher trade value and that puts an additional 6 or 7 players on the board when we pick. But it also pushes the jets further down the draft board making it that much harder for them to draft Mariotta or Winston.

Winning this game may make you feel good for a day or two, but it in the long term it weakens us and strengthens them.

If we could knock them out of the post season then I'd be all for it. But if we win they have shot at the top spot.

I'll gladly throw away a meaningless win in order to keep them from getting a franchise qb.

All that matters now is next year. Winning this game only makes it easier for them to compete with us next year.

Thanks, but no thanks.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/23/2014 05:16AM by THE Truth.

Re: Viking game thread...
Posted by: colonel ()
Date: December 23, 2014 05:33AM

My point is a professional team must always try to win. They must give 100%. There's no forfeiting. There's no retreating. Always play for a win.

Rooting for a loss isn't in my chemistry, so I can't do it personally to gain an unknown advantage in the draft.

Re: Viking game thread...
Posted by: THE Truth ()
Date: December 23, 2014 05:46AM

colonel Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My point is a professional team must always try to
> win. They must give 100%. There's no forfeiting.
> There's no retreating. Always play for a win.
>
> Rooting for a loss isn't in my chemistry, so I
> can't do it personally to gain an unknown
> advantage in the draft.


Ok, that's different than saying what's it matter where we pick since we'll probably mess up the pick anyway.

Let me put it to you this way:

If losing a battle sets you up to win the war, do you still try to win the battle?

If beating the jets, in a game that impacts nothing but draft order, hands them a top two pick and a franchise qb are we better off winning or losing?

Re: Viking game thread...
Posted by: colonel ()
Date: December 23, 2014 06:44AM

While I often apply military tactics and strategy to leadership and positioning to succeed, your illustration of losing a battle to win the war doesn't exactly work.

Military tactics often apply thrusts and maneuvering, jockeying to get in a better position to win. There are offensives, retreats, counter offensives, all kinds of repositioning and advances. Thinking that losing a particular battle to win the war presupposes that in doing so, the war will be won with a particular losing battle. In reality, that prospect of knowing that a battle lost will ensure the war is won never exists.

TRUTH, that analogy isn't a good one. But in your defense, if we could be in a position to get a player like Andrew LUCK, knowing that he was clearly ready for prime time at QB, a franchise player, losing a game to get in front of all others, makes sense. I understand that rationale.

However, I'd still field my best players, and do everything possible on the field to win that game despite having a crack at the top NFL draft prospect if we lost. I just couldn't "throw" the game. But if we lost, albeit, the result would be a good one. That would be the best scenario. Now, consider where we'd pick this April and the risks involved in selecting a #1 pick. Is the guy really a top guy? Is he going to start and contribute? Will he play and increase his skills and rise to star status? Risky--All "I don't knows."

Losing to the Jets on Sunday doesn't get us closer to picking an Andrew Luck caliber player in the spring draft.

Re: Viking game thread...
Posted by: THE Truth ()
Date: December 23, 2014 07:01AM

colonel Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> While I often apply military tactics and strategy
> to leadership and positioning to succeed, your
> illustration of losing a battle to win the war
> doesn't exactly work.
>
> Military tactics often apply thrusts and
> maneuvering, jockeying to get in a better position
> to win. There are offensives, retreats, counter
> offensives, all kinds of repositioning and
> advances. Thinking that losing a particular
> battle to win the war presupposes that in doing
> so, the war will be won with a particular losing
> battle. In reality, that prospect of knowing that
> a battle lost will ensure the war is won never
> exists.
>
> TRUTH, that analogy isn't a good one. But in your
> defense, if we could be in a position to get a
> player like Andrew LUCK, knowing that he was
> clearly ready for prime time at QB, a franchise
> player, losing a game to get in front of all
> others, makes sense. I understand that rationale.
>
> However, I'd still field my best players, and do
> everything possible on the field to win that game
> despite having a crack at the top NFL draft
> prospect if we lost. I just couldn't "throw" the
> game. But if we lost, albeit, the result would be
> a good one. That would be the best scenario.
> Now, consider where we'd pick this April and the
> risks involved in selecting a #1 pick. Is the guy
> really a top guy? Is he going to start and
> contribute? Will he play and increase his skills
> and rise to star status? Risky--All "I don't
> knows."
>
> Losing to the Jets on Sunday doesn't get us closer
> to picking an Andrew Luck caliber player in the
> spring draft.


What if losing to the jets prevents them from drafting Andrew luck and us from having to face him 2x a year for the next decade and a half?

Sometimes you sacrifice pawns for the greater good. Keeping the jets from drafting a franchise qb this year keeps them in qb jail for AT LEAST one more season.

Isn't eliminating an opponent next year far more important than beating them in a game with zero impact this year beyond draft order?

Re: Viking game thread...
Posted by: colonel ()
Date: December 23, 2014 07:47AM

TRUTH--you're considering unknowns. Variables. There's no way of knowing just how good either team would fair in the spring draft. You think giving them (Jets) one more win puts them in a better place to select a better player while losing to the Jets puts us in a better place to select a better player? That's all "what ifs."

What if, the Jet's retain Ryan? What if...their QB becomes another Peyton Manning? What if he becomes Ryan Leaf? The possibilities are endless. Good, bad, somewhere in between? High draft picks don't ensure success....

"What's his name" in NE never has an early pick, yet he's seem to fill positions of need, makes his team perform, makes appropriate adjustments to his game plan and wins a division annually. It's more than having an early pick in the draft or foiling some other team's draft pick. Filling the team with talent now that takes a good eye.

Re: Viking game thread...
Posted by: angryseasphins ()
Date: December 23, 2014 07:57AM

all the lose to get a higher draft guys forget the ohter side of the coin. What if winning our last two builds some conifidence in the guys already on the team. What if it give Tannihill and the rest of the team some swagger to carry into next year(or Tannehill plays like crap and it sets him back..but hey we get to draft 12 instead of 17th). To many unknowns to hope for a loss> I will take it as a consolation prize but don't see it as necessarily better that we lose the moment we are no longer in the playoff hunt.

Re: Viking game thread...
Posted by: JC ()
Date: December 23, 2014 08:01AM

THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I hear you JC, but when this season ends after the
> super bowl and the offseason begins in March, how
> exactly does going 9-7 and picking 20th help us
> chase the only goal that matters... Winning a
> super bowl again... More than finishing 8-8 and
> picking 13th?


It helps (IMO) in that it finishes the season with a (small) sense of accomplishment and pride in beating a rival, finishing the season with another win, and creating positive momentum going into the offseason. We finish with a win (against a division rival no less) and there is less finger-pointing during the offseason.

I would only be sold on the draft position movement if the draft were more of an exact science and a sure thing (i.e., players pan out in the NFL the way the are expected to do coming out of college), which it is not. Of course, I say this as a fan who doesn't follow college as much as I should, and who is not as much interested (relatively speaking) in the draft overall.



>
> Sure it's nice to beat the jests. But that short
> lived pride means nothing when the season is over
> and we pushed ourselves down in the draft and
> elevated an arch rival in the process.
>
> If we lose to the jets we actually win...twice.
>
> We get a pick with higher trade value and that
> puts an additional 6 or 7 players on the board
> when we pick. But it also pushes the jets
> further down the draft board making it that much
> harder for them to draft Mariotta or Winston.
>
> Winning this game may make you feel good for a day
> or two, but it in the long term it weakens us and
> strengthens them.
>
> If we could knock them out of the post season then
> I'd be all for it. But if we win they have shot
> at the top spot.
>
> I'll gladly throw away a meaningless win in order
> to keep them from getting a franchise qb.
>
> All that matters now is next year. Winning this
> game only makes it easier for them to compete with
> us next year.
>
> Thanks, but no thanks.

Re: Viking game thread...
Posted by: JoeFootball ()
Date: December 23, 2014 08:28AM

I would rather root for the other teams to win so we can improve position while still beating the Jets...who will probably choose the wrong player anyway...Idzik...not too concerned.

Re: Viking game thread...
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: December 23, 2014 08:50AM

What I do is

1) BEFORE THE GAME STARTS: Hope we lose for a better draft position.

2) WHILE THE GAME IS PLAYING: Root for us to win

3) AFTER THE GAME IS OVER:
a) We win....be frustrated that we have lost a draft position.
b) We lose...be frustrated that we couldn't even beat a sorry team.

Now you readers try and tell me you don't feel the same way word for word.

Re: Viking game thread...
Posted by: THE Truth ()
Date: December 23, 2014 11:34AM

JoeFootball Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I would rather root for the other teams to win so
> we can improve position while still beating the
> Jets...who will probably choose the wrong player
> anyway...Idzik...not too concerned.


Idzik is out.

Charley Casserly has been hired by Johnson to advise him on putting together a winning organization. He's not keeping Idzik. Like Casserly or not, he's not letting a cap "guru" make personnel decisions.

So...new GM...new HC and the 2nd pick...

I don't know about you guys, but I'd prefer that they don't get to find out if Jameis Winston is as good a pro as he was a college QB.

Re: Viking game thread...
Posted by: Crowder52 ()
Date: December 23, 2014 12:00PM

THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I don't know about you guys, but I'd prefer that
> they don't get to find out if Jameis Winston is as
> good a pro as he was a college QB.


I am fine with it, I think there is much better chance he is another Geno Smith then an Andrew Luck... He threw a lot of interceptions for an iffy schedule.. And good defenses picked him off a lot, like Louisville and UF.. 7 interceptions in those 2 games alone..

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

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