Okay guys (Dolphaholic and JoeFootball) you both summarily say "no" to Mangini. That doesn't convince me, that he couldn't become a successful HC in his 40s. Haven't either of you performed jobs below your personal aspirations and qualifications? Haven't you both wondered why some people you worked with were "awarded" promotions when you didn't? It's a wonder that anyone could ever become a leader at anything if brilliance and success was required immediately. With most good leaders, it takes a certain amount of stick-to-it-ness and displayed aptitude to eventually move higher and higher. I would think that is equally applicable to becoming a good coach in the NFL (or college for that matter).

Mangini showed something special at an early age and got the opportunity to perform the HC position with the Jets. He later got the same opportunity with Cleveland. Both jobs were before he turned 40. Now years have passed and I'll bet he's learned a few things or two from the people he's been working around that would help him succeed at another HC position. He's smarter now, more experienced, I'll bet.

He would still run a taut ship. Practices wouldn't be easy. (Nor were they easy with Don Shula. He worked the players, much like a drill sergeant trying to get the most out them.) Mangini would still be a task-master. But, you know what, rigorous training and review works...it destroys some who aren't up to it while building the efficiency and confidence of others. It will always be that way.

Anyway, we'll see how Phiblin works "his magic" on the sidelines this Sunday with 'da Bears.

By your scenario, shouldn't we give Wanny, Cameron or Sparano a second chance also then? A 2 time loser in the NFL.....no thanks, I'd rather try out the unknown then keep recycling guys that already failed, and yes I'm aware that Bellicheat failed once, but for every Bellicheat, there's 5 Wannstadts/Wade Phillips/Lovie Smiths, etc.

I respect your opinion colonel but i have to agree with dolphaholic here.


But thats why this is a discussion board.

Right KB, Shula built his rep on His Csonka and Kiick based running offense with necessary passing by Griese and was able to transition to a dominant passing offense of Dan Marino.

Philbin is determined to force square pegs into round holes. (as well as having an affair with my wife).

dolphaholic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> By your scenario, shouldn't we give Wanny, Cameron
> or Sparano a second chance also then? A 2 time
> loser in the NFL.....no thanks, I'd rather try out
> the unknown then keep recycling guys that already
> failed, and yes I'm aware that Bellicheat failed
> once, but for every Bellicheat, there's 5
> Wannstadts/Wade Phillips/Lovie Smiths, etc.


That's a dumb comparison. Sorry to be so blunt. Just because you don't win a superbowl does not make you a loser. Just ask Dan Marino and Shula was winless for over 20 yrs. You can still be a competitive coach , make decent decisions, good drafts. Wannastandt was a moron Eddie Moore? really?

Pete Carroll was a model Loser in NYC and disappeared to California for a few decades before trying again AFTER a scandal. Right place right time has a lot to do with it.

GO DOLPHINS!!!!

colonel Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ha, Ha, Ha. Cushy jobs all of them. Sure there's
> pressure, lots of it. However, I can think of a
> few other jobs...more of a calling really...that
> are more stressful, requires lots more courage,
> has far greater risks and pays millions upon
> millions less...but I digress from the NFL
> franchise topic.
>
> Gruden is done with coaching. Put an exclamation
> point on it (!). Same holds true for Bill Cowher.
>
>
> Oh, by the way, I'm also glad that Fisher didn't
> take the Dolphins HC position when it was offered
> to him. There are better coaches than him. His
> turn around of the Rams is still a work in
> progress and may remain one while he's their HC.
>
> I still don't think Joe Philbin has the coaching
> where-with-all to be a successful NFL HC. There
> are many HCs better than him.
>
> I have a thought. It may be time to give 43-year
> old Eric Mangini another crack at the HC position.
> He was too young when he landed the Jets job and
> later the Browns HC position. He wasn't ready.
> However, he has remained employed and is currently
> with the 49ers as the Tight Ends coach. I have no
> doubt in my mind that he'd be far better than
> Philbin running the team, prepping it for the
> opponent and carrying out a winning strategy on
> the sidelines each week.
>
> I realize my thought on Mangini would be a gamble
> however, not nearly as big a gamble as Philbin
> becoming HC. Mangini is a civil guy when talking
> with the media. However, he shows more fire, more
> passion and has a better understanding of winning
> football than Philbin. He subscribes to my
> leadership style of playing hard to the bitter end
> and grooming upstarts for the future.

*******************************************************

You mean Man-genius?

Exactly and if we all thought alike it would be a boring world.

His first year with the jest wasn't he named "Coach of the Year"?

........................................

The Clown Show Continues



-

That's when he had Chad Pennington to make him look good.

dolphaholic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TreasurecoastPhinsfan Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > dolphaholic Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > By your scenario, shouldn't we give Wanny,
> > Cameron
> > > or Sparano a second chance also then? A 2
> time
> > > loser in the NFL.....no thanks, I'd rather
> try
> > out
> > > the unknown then keep recycling guys that
> > already
> > > failed, and yes I'm aware that Bellicheat
> > failed
> > > once, but for every Bellicheat, there's 5
> > > Wannstadts/Wade Phillips/Lovie Smiths, etc.
> >
> >
> > That's a dumb comparison. Sorry to be so blunt.
> > Just because you don't win a superbowl does not
> > make you a loser. Just ask Dan Marino and Shula
> > was winless for over 20 yrs. You can still be a
> > competitive coach , make decent decisions, good
> > drafts. Wannastandt was a moron Eddie Moore?
> > really?
> >
> > Pete Carroll was a model Loser in NYC and
> > disappeared to California for a few decades
> before
> > trying again AFTER a scandal. Right place right
> > time has a lot to do with it.
>
>
> Great rant TCPF......except you're leaving out the
> part that Mangina sucked balls in both stops, he
> lasted 3 years as coach of the Jets where he went
> 23-25, and two years with the Browns where he went
> 10-22, both stops he was known as a micro manager
> who lost his team late in the year, since then the
> defensive guru has only managed to land an
> assistant job with San Fran AS A TE COACH, so the
> once defensive genius isn't even that
> anymore.......like I said, PASS



PASS on Mangina? Yes. But it's not nearly as black and white as you make it. He could still be successful possibly in the right system. Right place right time right people /chemistry is everything. And there is some luck involved as well.injuries and so fourth.

GO DOLPHINS!!!!

in the right system, in the right system.... always in the right system with every player.

You want to know the formula for a successful HC? Great QB play. Whether that means efficient or dangerous.

Bellichick without Brady = not so impressive.
Pete Carroll without Wilson....
Fox without Manning = not so impressive.
Sean Payton without Brees
Mike McCarthy without Rodgers or Favre....

see the trend here?

You have to be able to pass from the pocket to succeed in this league.

Tannehill is learning the read option. Lazor said he's getting better and more comfortable with it each week. That said his first 2 years in the league he learned how to be a pocket passer with mixed results but he is getting better with his progressions.

Kap and RGII, on the other hand, have struggled of late because they still don't know how to play the position. They are athletes playing QB. The read options dumbs things down to a high school level offense. Teams will figure it out eventually and your QB is going to have to adjust and read a D and go through his progressions.

JoeFootball Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bellichick without Brady = not so impressive.
Wait. They won 11 games the year Brady didn't play. Remember Matt Cassell? Bellichick made him look like an all-Pro.


> Pete Carroll without Wilson....
Not to minimize Wilson, but this team is predicated on the defense. Wilson actually had his best game as a pro...in the LOSS to the Rams.


> Fox without Manning = not so impressive.
Absolutely. Manning is the real coach of that offense. Fox just sits back and lets it happen.

(can't really comment on the rest)


I agree, there ARE coaches out there that have benefited from having great QBs, but there are also others that are just great coaches. Remember Shula? Griese goes down...and who keeps us winning but Earl Morrall. I remember Dan going down and Scott Mitchell taking over. The team didn't seem to miss a beat.

JoeFootball Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That's when he had Chad Pennington to make him
> look good.

Penny was always good for one year. If not for him, Sparano probably wouldn't have survived more than 2 seasons.

montequi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> JoeFootball Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Bellichick without Brady = not so impressive.
> Wait. They won 11 games the year Brady didn't
> play. Remember Matt Cassell? Bellichick made him
> look like an all-Pro.
>
>
> > Pete Carroll without Wilson....
> Not to minimize Wilson, but this team is
> predicated on the defense. Wilson actually had
> his best game as a pro...in the LOSS to the Rams.
>
>
> > Fox without Manning = not so impressive.
> Absolutely. Manning is the real coach of that
> offense. Fox just sits back and lets it happen.
>
> (can't really comment on the rest)
>
>
> I agree, there ARE coaches out there that have
> benefited from having great QBs, but there are
> also others that are just great coaches. Remember
> Shula? Griese goes down...and who keeps us
> winning but Earl Morrall. I remember Dan going
> down and Scott Mitchell taking over. The team
> didn't seem to miss a beat.

Yes but those coaches would be the exception. Not the rule. Bellichick, Shula, Walsh are all great coaches.

I'm not sure how successful Bellichick would have been over the last 14 years without Brady. Yes he did have a decent year with Cassel but that's not to say he could have sustained that level of success with him for 14 years. Cassel winning 3 SB's???? I don't see it. We did beat NE for the division that year.

Shula also had the benefit of having a great defense and a running game that carried the offense to ease the burden on the QB's in the 70's.

Scott Mitchell had a 57% comp rate that year (93). He threw for only 1,773 yards, 12td's & 8 ints in 7 games. Not bad but he actually did better in Detroit in 95 with 4338/32/12 so he was no slouch under Wayne Fontes. It just didn't last long for whatever reason.

He lost 4 out of 5 games to finish the year in Miami. Hardly a great effort with a 3-4 record. We also used Doug Pederson and Steve Deberg that year at QB and finished 9-7 after Marino led us to a 4-1 record.

He was really good for games 5 (off the bench), 6 & 7 but not very good after that.

LOL.....Dan marino went down and mitchell was outstanding for just one game...

jsm08 I believe you just stack the box to stop it.

Jon Fox took Carolina to the SB with Jake friggin Delhomme.

Do I even have to mention Trent Dilfer?

GO DOLPHINS!!!!