What kind of statement is that... Parcells always builds from inside out, which equals need not top player, he has never willingly drafted a WR in the first round, so in no time in his history there was a WR that was the best player available for him to pick up in the first round. I know history of WR's he passed on were much better then the defensive guy Parcells drafted... Parcells is a creature of habit and he defintely prioritizes interior over skill players IMO, even listen to Ireland talk, he says they make needs a priority, but obviously will not pass on a great player they can not resist IE; Marion Barber in Dallas.

Barber was a 3rd round pick as well.....so it wasnt like he drafted him in the 1st.


Anywho, defense will be the pick. Just watch and see.

But, I would like them to pick Hakeem Nicks.

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"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

Aqua I agree 100%...like to see them draft Nicks, but 98% sure it will be a defensive pick

We can argue all we want. We never get our wishes anyways. We wanted brees and who did we picked instead. We wanted randy moss with the 20th pick and we traded down and got john avery the bustomattic machine instead. We wanted quinn and got ginn. And we all know we needed a qb bad at that time. Pennington wasn't even a though. But you know how it was. Cam dumberon was our coach.

Ps. Im glad we finnally have a coach who knows what he is doing and saying. And the fat tuna in the background doesn't hurt either. (((((Cameron couldnt even hold a press conference...........I didn't understand all the nonesense and crap he was saying)))))

The days of Dave wannstead, cameron, jimmy johnson ( the defensive genious ) are over. Yup jimmy was genious who traded down and picked avery when he could of had moss at # 20. ********Just imagine moss and danny on the same team*********OUCH OUCH PATS, JESTS, BILLS.OUCH OUCH



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/06/2009 08:45AM by samsam3738.

samsam3738 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yup jimmy was
> genious who traded down and picked avery when he
> could of had moss at # 20. ********Just imagine
> moss and danny on the same team*********OUCH OUCH
> PATS, JESTS, BILLS.OUCH OUCH

I wonder if Shula would have picked Moss. I think the answer is YES.

My thoughts: Even if Jimmy DID take Moss, he wouldn't have let Dan throw to him. Jimmy was a control freak and his ego was so big he and Dan barely fit into the same room. He successfully destroyed Dan's career by changing the offense (probably the top offense in the league), taking away Dan's ability to audible, and calling run plays on 1st and 2nd down. So, I don't know how much Moss would have helped as long as JJ was our coach.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/06/2009 08:57AM by montequi.

When Jimmy got here Dan only had a year left anyhow. I mean he should have retired.

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"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

Very true. I hated that game against the Jets (i believe in 98 or 99) he threw I think.....1,000 INT's. My thought was "he is a couple season past due retirement".

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"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

Even great coaches have a lot to think about when they take a new job. They have to answer the following:

Do I implement the system that I think is the best now, even if it doesn't match the skill set of my current players?

Or do I play to the strengths of my current players while gradually migrating to the system that I think is best?

I think Johnson was a great coach. But he took over in 1996 and won one less game than Shula did in 1995. Over the four years that he coached, Johnson won 36 games. Shula won 39 games over the previous four years. While he was successful in Dallas, Johnson was only fair in Miami. Unlike Sparano, who led his team to a 10 win turnaround in one year, Johnson's bottom-line results don't show an improvement over the previous coach.

Jimmy's "system" was to run the ball on 1st, 2nd and 3rd down, unsuccessfully, until the end of the 3rd quarter, when we were behind...and then ask Marino to bail the team out and win the game.

Any QB would throw int's under those circumstances. If you remember we averaged 3.3 ypc running the ball so Marino didn't exactly get much help. Teams could run their nickle and dime packages all day long because they did not fear any of our RB's who would have been 3rd string on any other team. Not to mention the group of average WR's we had for years...There were only 9 teams worse than Miami in rushing in 99.

Even in that no talent, crap offense JJ ran in 99, Marino, with no legs, was still better than over half of the QB's in the league. He ranked 14th and was only a few yards back from Brett Favre when he was in his prime.

Shula had as much success running the ball with Marino as JJ ever did and he didn't even try. I don't think JJ ever even met the league average in rushing yards per carry and I know you guys remember his statement about how "we will run the ball no matter what."

Lets face it. JJ got lucky on a few late round draft picks that turned out to be HOF type players. Had it not been for them, his reputation would really have taken a beating. He also got all the credit for the turnaround in Dallas when you know Jones had a big part in that. His inability to duplicate his success and provide any resemblance of a running game here in Miami is proof of that. Shula duplicated it from Baltimore to Miami and Parcels has duplicated it. JJ was a pretty good coach who just got lucky.

If it were up to JJ the "genius", he would have traded Michael Irvin to Oakland, Where would they have been without "the playmaker". Al Davis, of all people, had to talk him out of it.

JJ did not destroy Dan's career but he sure as heck didn't know how to utilize the talent he had. Great coaches adapt to their players abilities. His ego got in the way of any success he could have had in Miami.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

Another thing JJ did was let Terry Kirby go. Kirby didn't have much of a career after he left, but he and Dan worked well together. Kirby could run, block, and catch out the backfield. JJ replaced him with RBs that could do none of those.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/06/2009 05:20PM by montequi.

Phinsfan2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> eesti Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Jimmy's "system" was to run the ball on 1st,
> 2nd
> > and 3rd down, unsuccessfully, until the end of
> the
> > 3rd quarter, when we were behind...and then ask
> > Marino to bail the team out and win the game.
>
>
> JJ's system is basically the same one Parcells
> runs. It's ball control, power running and
> limiting turnovers. Some of the "bells and
> whistles" are different but its the same basic
> blueprint of being good on defense, Special teams
> and controlling the ball on offense.
>
Thing is, Sparano is our coach, NOT Parcells. While Sparano DOES share Parcells' philosophy of limiting turnovers and penalties (Shula had the same philosophy), we were hardly a power running team last year. As for ball control, that only happened because the dink-and-dunk passing game was the ideal system for Pennington. I think Sparano, like Shula, understands that to succeed in the short term you don't build the players around the system, you build the system around the players. That's why we introduced the Wildcat. Ronnie ran it to perfection. Our O-Line was inadequate to establish ball-control in a standard set, so he found a way to improvise.

JJ's biggest problem was his inflexibility. In Dallas he was able to take one of the worst teams in football at the time and build them from the ground up (the Hershel Walker trade didn't hurt!). So, he built the team around his system. In Miami he took a team that already had talent and was as consistent winner and changed the "system" so it didn't fit this personnel. That was just plain dumb.

Based on the super-quick turnaround we had last year, I'm confident in the fact that Sparano is more like Shula than JJ. He'll work with the talent he's given and fit the system to his players.

Quote:
"I think Johnson was a great coach. But he took over in 1996 and won one less game than Shula did in 1995. Over the four years that he coached, Johnson won 36 games. Shula won 39 games over the previous four years. While he was successful in Dallas, Johnson was only fair in Miami. Unlike Sparano, who led his team to a 10 win turnaround in one year, Johnson's bottom-line results don't show an improvement over the previous coach."



&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
Thats a very, very weak argument. Shulas last 4 years he still had one of the top QB's in the league in Marino. Marino was still one of the best. JJ had the Marino who should have retired after JJ's first year.

Thats not a fair comparison and you know it.

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"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

If Marino would have retired after the 96 season, we would have been stuck with Craig Erickson. So that leaves us with no QB. No WR's other than OJ and no RB's.

Marino threw for 3,780 yards, 16 TD's and 11 int's in 97.

He threw for 3,497 23 TD's and 15 ints in 98.

To say that Marino should have retired before 97 in ridiculous. If we didn't have Marino, our running game would have been worse and no way does Erickson or Huard outplay Marino.

We had a decent line in 99 but the other JJ was useless. 96, 98 and 99 were probably the worst drafts for RB's EVER. They produced a total of 4 good RB's. Eddie George, Fred Taylor, Ricky Williams and Edgerrin James and they were all gone by the time we picked. The 2000 draft was not much better.

JJ passed on Tiki Barber, Duce Staley and Corey Dillon to draft Yatil Green in 97 and screwed himself and the Dolphins for years to come.

If JJ had not been so darn stubborn, he would have gotten the most of Marino. He never wanted Marino because he selfishly wanted all the credit and he flopped and burned out.

Then we had to deal with Wannstedt and his great idea to implement a system that required a mobile QB.

Both of them had the opportunity to improve this team and failed because of pathetic drafts and giving away draft picks for weak players. They both continually passed on great WR's and RB's for busts.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/07/2009 05:54AM by eesti.

Actually it was a fair comparison. As eesti pointed out, Marino was still productive after Johnson became the coach. He was certainly good enough to conribute to a Super Bowl winning team. But JJ failed to draft any productive offensive players in the 4 years he was here. Besides that, good coaches find a way to improve a team. End of story. JJ didn't do that. In 4 years, we did not improve at all. On the other hand, we were 1-15 in 2007 and 11-5 in 2008.

Great analysis. I agree, defense first. I'm looking at Larry English as the OLB we pick up in the first round. He's the right size for a Parcells OLB and will make an immediate impact. Clay Matthews is another overhyped son of an NFL player - I just don't see it happening.

If Peria Jerry slips to the bottom of the second, I'd be surprised if we didn't pick him up as well - but we need a CB.

I'm agreeing with many that our 2a will probably be a WR.

It amazes me how some people are still living in 1996.

There is a huge apples and oranges comparison being made here...

Arguments surrounding Marino are bunk. When JJ took over, it was clear that Marino had a lot left in him, but the players around him were leaving for free agency. Add to that, the team power in FA was entirely decimated due to the previous GM's misunderstanding of the cap. The only players the team could afford to keep were Marino, McDuffie, the Oline and a bunch of scrubs. Not to mention that the defense was a complete mess.

In JJ's first year, I thought the team was going to do much worse than it did - not because of JJ or Marino, but because JJ inherited an enormous lack of talent in every area of the team besides the passing game.

As for JJ's draft... JJ drafted top notch on defense - he built a powerhouse D that lasted nearly a decade, and to deny that is to deny reality. I think his problem on offense was a combination of really bad luck (Yatil Green) and a penchant for drafting Offensive Need over BPA (Running backs).

But this has nothing to do with Shula - he wasn't the GM, or with Marino - he could throw the ball, or with JJ's coaching - he got the team to overachieve a year after they severely underachieved.

That some want to revise the history and vilify/deify JJ/Shula/Marino just speaks to the ridiculous and uninformed opinions that people want to spew for no good reason whatsoever - except to read rants that they write.

ghotirule Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As for JJ's draft... JJ drafted top notch on
> defense - he built a powerhouse D that lasted
> nearly a decade, and to deny that is to deny
> reality. I think his problem on offense was a
> combination of really bad luck (Yatil Green) and a
> penchant for drafting Offensive Need over BPA
> (Running backs).
>
I don't mean to belittle JJ's picks of Zach, JT, Madison, and Surtain, but besides those 4 players his drafts were atrocious, on Offense AND Defense. Yatil Green had a history of injuries at UM. It was no secret. JJ's evaluation of college talent was hit and miss...mostly miss. The only decent QB JJ ever drafted was Troy Aikman, and that was an easy pick (since it was the #1 pick in the draft). Having been the coach at UM, he was VERY familiar with Emmitt and Irvin (he coached one and played against the other). Once he got to Miami he didn't have the luxury of having been a college coach soon before. JJ's ultimate problem was his need to have complete control. As GM AND Coach he couldn't do either to 100% of his ability.

JJ Drafted a complete defense. There were plenty of lower round drafted players that weren't the superstars you listed. There were guys that were impact players here for a few years and ended up making a difference elsewhere.

His offensive picks weren't that great, but he built a stellar defense that lasted for years.

Hey....you stay out of this!

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"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"