dolfanmark Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> THE Truth Wrote:
> .
> >
> > His numbers were down this year for a few very
> > good reasons...first he missed most of camp
> over
> > contract negotiations.
>



> For me, this is actually a bit of a red flag on
> him. They were putting in a completely new
> offense, and his hold-out put him in the position
> of not knowing the new system well enough. It's a
> business, and guys have to handle it that way, but
> his hold-out got him nothing, and everyone knew it
> wasn't going to get him anything from Pittsburgh.


I get your concerns but in this day and age in the NFL, I'm not overly concerned about it.

Once they pulled out of negotiations over a long term deal with him and gave that deal to Brown before camp opened in July, he was thinking about protecting his health for Free Agency.

Its not the ideal reaction but its understandable. Afterall they just told him he was a 1 year rental for them. What loyalty did he owe them other than to work hard when he finally showed up?

samsam3738 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I guess i heard wrong. they were already calling
> him mike drop wallace. Making jokes. I thought
> they had already signed him.
>
>
> They said thats what tannehill needed.


There were reports that we had an agreement in place but not contract signed...we'll see on tuesday.

jlyell13 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Can we afford to sign Wallace at $12m a year? He
> and hartline would be making $18M a year! They
> would have to be the highest paid tandem in the
> league and neither a top 10 receiver!
>
> Is this a major act of desparation? Does taking
> two WR in our first 4 picks make more sense and
> spending our FA money better elsewhere?

Unlikely, since Calvin J makes an average of 16.5 mil a year by himself with a 12.2 cap hit in 2013.

Larry Fitzgerald is over 16 mil and will be 30 in August.

I would rather be in Miami's position than either one of those teams. They both pick ahead of us this year.....and their number 2's aren't as good as Hartline.

The reality is that Wallace will carry about an 8 mil cap hit and Hartline around 3 mil.

We haven't had a good team in a long time and we also haven't had a team with high priced offensive skill positions. Coincidence?

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

Truth- This is a "what have you done for me lately" league... I didnt cherry pick, I just used their most recent season... When you are asking for a big contract, your most recent season holds alot of weight...ie, Jake Long or Hartline....
And the bottom line is Hartline outperformed Wallace in yards last year by more then a couple... If we sign Wallace, I am not sure he will have more yards then Hartline next year... And I am imagine Wallace's TD avg will go down... RT and our offense sucked at TD's.... I dont think Wallace helps solves this problem... So why pay him 12 million a year....

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

The bottom line is Wallace ranked 34th in recieving last year, yet he wants to be paid as if he was top 3... That to me is a laughable position and only a fool who cant draft any play makers in 5 years like Ireland would be willing to foolishly overpay that much.... 34th in the league in recieving wants 60 million...smh..... Even if you doubled Wallace's yards last year, he would still be 300 yards or so short of what the highest paid WR did in recieving yards..

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/11/2013 05:45AM by Crowder52.

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Truth- This is a "what have you done for me
> lately" league... I didnt cherry pick, I just used
> their most recent season... When you are asking
> for a big contract, your most recent season holds
> alot of weight...ie, Jake Long or Hartline....
> And the bottom line is Hartline outperformed
> Wallace in yards last year by more then a
> couple... If we sign Wallace, I am not sure he
> will have more yards then Hartline next year...
> And I am imagine Wallace's TD avg will go down...
> RT and our offense sucked at TD's.... I dont think
> Wallace helps solves this problem... So why pay
> him 12 million a year....


Its still cherry picking select data to support your conclusion.

If he were 32 you could make the argument. He's 26 and entering the prime of his career coming off a year when his QB missed 3 weeks and his team installed a new offense.

maybe he isn't a good fit. Time will tell. But based on his career to date, his health and his age he's worth every bit as much as the guys already making 10-12mill. If you don't want to pay him that much, that's certainly a legit position. But if you are going to base it on one of his for seasons in Pittsburgh you should include the factors that lead to his decline in YPC. His catches were in line with his annual production over his career. So were his TD's. The only thing different was Yards... which was greatly impacted by the new system and the play calling.

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The bottom line is Wallace ranked 34th in
> recieving last year, yet he wants to be paid as if
> he was top 3... That to me is a laughable position
> and only a fool who cant draft any play makers in
> 5 years like Ireland would be willing to foolishly
> overpay that much.... 34th in the league in
> recieving wants 60 million...smh


and "boom goes the dynamite"...

Truth- Sorry but it is clearly more of a cherry pick to ignore this years stats, then it is to look at them as relevant......

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/11/2013 05:51AM by Crowder52.

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We haven't had a good team in a long time and we
> also haven't had a team with high priced offensive
> skill positions. Coincidence?
>
>
> ummmm, I guess Brandon Marshall's contract wasnt
> high priced enough? Ronnie Browns rookie deal
> wasnt high priced enough. Before that Ricky's deal
> was quite large for its day.... Wilbur what ever
> are you talking about...

I said positionS...plural besides we got Ricky very cheap on his stupid rookie deal and even after giving him a raise....it was still below standards.

Playing one player (Ronnie Brown) 7 mil a year is not what I would consider splurging on offense.

Brandon Marshall was the biggest contract we paid in a long time but that was still ONE position. The other high priced contract that year was for Dansby....on defense.

Who else did we have at the same time exactly? Jay Fiedler? The two year 11.5 mil deal we gave Chad Pennington?

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

We had Ronnie and Chris Chambers at the same time eesti.....

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

Yeah L Fitzgerald had a poor year, and clearly was not worth his contract amount last year.... Also Fitz had zero QB, while Wallace had a superbowl winning QB throwing to him...

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

roslingberger was a complete and utter mess last year.

samsam3738 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> roslingberger was a complete and utter mess last
> year.


oh yeah he really sucked last year!!


TDS
26
INT
8
YDS
3,265
RTG
97.0

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

So Fitz had a poor year but no considerations for Wallace's poor year in a new offense with an almost dead QB, no runnin game and no blocking???? Come on man.

The year we had Ricky Williams, Chris Chambers was making 450k a year. We extended him in 2004 on a 5 year/30 mil deal....the year Ricky flaked out.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

samsam3738 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> roslingberger was a complete and utter mess last
> year.


He was much better then the Guy throwing to Hartline or the guy throwing to Fitz....

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So Fitz had a poor year but no considerations for
> Wallace's poor year in a new offense with an
> almost dead QB, no runnin game and no blocking????
> Come on man.
>
> The year we had Ricky Williams, Chris Chambers was
> making 450k a year. We extended him in 2004 on a 5
> year/30 mil deal....the year Ricky flaked out.


where did I say Ricky and Chambers, I said Ronnie and Chambers.... # 2 overall draft pick and Chambers had a big deal...

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> samsam3738 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > roslingberger was a complete and utter mess
> last
> > year.
>
>
> oh yeah he really sucked last year!!
>
>
> TDS
> 26
> INT
> 8
> YDS
> 3,265
> RTG
> 97.0

So Ben missing 3 games had no effect on Wallace?

Here are the combined stats for 3 games with Byron Leftwich and Charlie Batch at QB....747 yards, 1 TD and 5 ints!

Wallace can't catch balls if the QB is throwing them to the other teams CB's.

It was a new dink and dunk offense (Ben's words). Wallace still lead the team. Antonio Brown who signed a 8mil per year deal only had 787/5 with a 11.9 ypc average.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

and he stunk in the playoffs too.

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Truth- Sorry but it is clearly more of a cherry
> pick to ignore this years stats, then it is to
> look at them as relevant......


Who is ignoring them?

They fit into the evaluation. They just aren't the only component of the evaluation. That is hardly cherry picking.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/11/2013 08:45AM by THE Truth.

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> eesti Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > So Fitz had a poor year but no considerations
> for
> > Wallace's poor year in a new offense with an
> > almost dead QB, no runnin game and no
> blocking????
> > Come on man.
> >
> > The year we had Ricky Williams, Chris Chambers
> was
> > making 450k a year. We extended him in 2004 on a
> 5
> > year/30 mil deal....the year Ricky flaked out.
>
>
> where did I say Ricky and Chambers, I said Ronnie
> and Chambers.... # 2 overall draft pick and
> Chambers had a big deal...

Oh! Well that's different. So you're ok with giving Chris Chambers a 6 mil a year deal, a decade ago? Talk about overpaying! He hadn't even had a 1k season up to that point and EVERYONE was complaining about him.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

Wallace is a legit burner, and that's exactly what this offense needs to keep everyone from stuffing 8 in the box against us which every opponent figured out real quick. Tanny could develop much better facing an honest defense for a change. Going after Wallace makes total sense, & I'm 100% supportive of it.

The Dolphins are also reportedly interested in TE Jared Cook from Tennessee, yet another vertical threat. That would be another huge move that could make an immediate impact for this team. When I think about it, I'm beginning to realize that Ireland has been taking a painfully methodical approach to building this team; creating cap space and stockpiling the draft picks over the last couple of years. Now is the time to get some legit weapons that will make Philbin a successful head coach and also make the QB's job a lot easier too.

I'm getting pretty excited to see who will be on this years final roster. I'm not nut-hugging Jeff Ireland just yet, but it appears that he isn't exactly sitting on his duff as the GM either. I just hope he plays his cards right. As a fan of this team for decades, it's been really hard to be optimistic over the last ten plus years until now. This better not be a wet dream!

They are doing everything possible to make ryan tannehill a HALL of famer.......Soon his number will be retired and sitting on top of the stadium near dan's and greasies.

In just 15 years.

eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It says we don't have to get into a bidding war
> and the teams that were rumored to want him know
> they can't compete and have given up.
>
> Who would you rather give 11-12 mil per year to?
> Jake Long or Mike Wallace? Personally I don't want
> our highest paid player to be a LT who does not
> make plays. Especially one that can't even do his
> job anymore.
>
> We ere taken for 24 million over the last two
> years and where did it get us? It certainly didn't
> give our QB much time in the pocket.


1000 percent.

samsam3738 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> They are doing everything possible to make ryan
> tannehill a HALL of famer.......Soon his number
> will be retired and sitting on top of the stadium
> near dan's and greasies.
>
> In just 15 years.


Sounds great but lets start with him hopefully throwing more TD's then games, and more TD's then interceptiosn.... after that it is all gravy, and bronze head busts...

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

808phan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wallace is a legit burner, and that's exactly what
> this offense needs to keep everyone from stuffing
> 8 in the box against us which every opponent
> figured out real quick. Tanny could develop much
> better facing an honest defense for a change.
> Going after Wallace makes total sense, & I'm 100%
> supportive of it.
>
> The Dolphins are also reportedly interested in TE
> Jared Cook from Tennessee, yet another vertical
> threat. That would be another huge move that could
> make an immediate impact for this team. When I
> think about it, I'm beginning to realize that
> Ireland has been taking a painfully methodical
> approach to building this team; creating cap space
> and stockpiling the draft picks over the last
> couple of years. Now is the time to get some legit
> weapons that will make Philbin a successful head
> coach and also make the QB's job a lot easier
> too.
>
> I'm getting pretty excited to see who will be on
> this years final roster. I'm not nut-hugging Jeff
> Ireland just yet, but it appears that he isn't
> exactly sitting on his duff as the GM either. I
> just hope he plays his cards right. As a fan of
> this team for decades, it's been really hard to be
> optimistic over the last ten plus years until now.
> This better not be a wet dream!

Think about this 808...

Wallace and Hartline outside, Austin in the slot. Cook at TE, Miller at Rb.

How do you defense that kind of speed?

5 DB's? 6? 7?

What kind of a Season is Lamar Miller going to have if that is our base set?