Would you guys trade down, and garner extra draft picks. This year that might be the best strategy.

I would.

If I were GM I'd be looking at a small group of targets for #12. If none of them are there then I'd definitely trade down.

My group of players for #12 would be (in no particular order):

Ziggy Ansah
Jarvis Jones
Eric Fisher
Lane Johnson
Bjern Werner
Dee Miliner
Dion Jordan
Sharif Floyd

If none of those guys falls to 7 then I trade out for whatever I can get and drop down at least once.

Ideally I'd hope to drop 10 spots and add a 2nd round pick.

Then in the 20-30 range I'd be looking at:

Tyler Eifert
Zach Ertz
Tavon Austin
Johnathon Cooper
David Amerson
Desmond Trufant
Barett Jones
Alec Ogletree
Datrone Jones
Kawaan Short
Tank Carridine

Sounds like the thinking that got us odrick and misi and not earl Thomas or dez Bryant

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The beatings will continue until morale improves.

berkeley223 Wrote:
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> Sounds like the thinking that got us odrick and
> misi and not earl Thomas or Dez Bryant


Where's the Earl Thomas or Dez Bryant in this draft Berk?


Do you always give up on a good idea just because it didn't work out perfectly the first time?


Seriously, the notion that we shouldn't do what we think is the right course of action just because it didn't work out perfectly the first time is silly. Not only are the circumstances seriously different but it just makes no sense. It's like saying: "oh well...can't ever draft another wr from Ohio State because Ted Ginn was a bust."

Trading down in that draft wasn't the issue. There were 10 players taken after we took Odrick who have gone to the probowl. We just didn't pick one.

Milliner or Xavier Rhodes are this years Earl Thomas

We will have 7 in the first 4 rounds if we get the 4th comp pick , could drop down with cincy and pick up another 2 & end up with 8 and really load up. Get a DE, TE, 2 WR, OL DB, S and RB in the first 4. If we sign one of the in FA you can add somehtung else and still have 3 more picks 5 & 2-7

1-1
2-3
3-2
4-2

If we dropped down, we could come out with:


1- Allen, Eifert, Datone Jones, Jonathan Cyprien

2 three of: Deandre Hopkins, Patton, Woods, Patton,Justin Hunter, Terrence Williams, barrett Jones, Kyle Long, Larry Warford

Defense Tank Carradine,Darious Slay,Matt Elam, Philip Thomas Eric Reid Dave Amerson,

3 two of Robert Alford, Terron armstead, Gavin Escobar, Jordan Reed, Stedman bailey, Bacarri Rambo, Davis Quessenberry,logan Ryan, Knile Davis, Jordan Poyer, Monte ball

4 two of Christine Michael, matt Scott, Jon Bostic,Vance McDonald, TJ Mcdonald,BW Webb, Tyran mathieu

5 Zac Stacy , Shawn Williams, Steven Williams


Should be a big haul even if we don't trade down

Earl Thomas was a FS. Milliner and Rhodes are CB's.

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“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

The closest safeties are Cyprien, Elam & Vacarro

I like Reshad Jones, but would add Cyprien, Elam, Eric Reid, TJ McDonald,Bacarri Rambo, Philip Thomas, or Shamarko Thomas

With Byrd franchised the top safeties are Goldson(likely resignedd to tagged) Make an offer!, he is a hitter, and William Moore

I think we should resign Clemons. He is finally getting better and has 4.3 speed. he played well last year and with another year in the same defense maybe he starts producing some turnovers. Save the big FA money for offense. WR, TE, LG, RG, RT...and we need a DT

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“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

If we get a top pass rushing DE like Ansah or Jordan that will make the secondaries life easier

eesti Wrote:
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> I think we should resign Clemons. He is finally
> getting better and has 4.3 speed. he played well
> last year and with another year in the same
> defense maybe he starts producing some turnovers.
> Save the big FA money for offense. WR, TE, LG, RG,
> RT...and we need a DT


Agreed. I was really interested in Jarius Byrd but he got tagged.

I'm kinds interested in Dashon Goldson but I'd just assume have Clemons back. He'll be cheaper and he's improved a lot.

Its a deep draft at S. Good chance a quality guy falls to the 4th or 5th like Reshad Jones did. maybe we grab another later in the draft.

Oline: Sign Levitre. Draft an OT in the 1st 3 picks or sign one as a FA.

WR: Sign Wallace or Jennings or Bowe. Sign Hartline. Draft another WR in the 2nd or 3rd rounds.

TE: Sign a FA to replace Fasano and draft a backup to that FA OR Resign Fasano and draft a guy expected to play ahead of him.

QB: Late round draft pick to develop or scrap heap FA like Matt Cassell once he gets dumped.

RB: Draft one 4th round or later.

DE/OLB: Need another pass rusher. FA or draft...doesn't matter.

DT: Right guy int he right spot in the draft...but not a priority.

MLB: Not this year.

CB: One FA and one draft.

S: Re-sign Clemons. Draft a guy to groom as his replacement.

K: Bring in a guy to compete with Carpenter.

I would trade down. Because I think a guy like Warner or Lane is going to drop a bit in the draft. Then you have essentially a top ten pick later on in the draft with extra draft picks not bad folks.

If there wont be any blue chippers for us at 12, who do guys think other teams are gonna give up a 2nd rndr to get?

dolphaholic Wrote:
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> If there wont be any blue chippers for us at 12,
> who do guys think other teams are gonna give up a
> 2nd rndr to get?

That's the problem. But it only takes one team with an itch that they need to scratch. Could be we don't get full value in a trade down.

THE Truth Wrote:
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> DT: Right guy int he right spot in the draft...but
> not a priority.


DT is not a priority? As of right now Paul Soliai and Kheeston Randall are the only two DT's we have. We may lose a Pro Bowler in Starks. If we want to remain an effective defense we have to get a PB type player for the 3-technique spot.

Starks was a 3 down player last year. Do you really think Odrick can fill his shoes? I'm not so sure.

Tony McDaniel battled injuries last year but he is a FA as well.

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“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

dolphaholic Wrote:
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> If there wont be any blue chippers for us at 12,
> who do guys think other teams are gonna give up a
> 2nd rndr to get?



Happens every year. One man's trash is another man's treasure

Cincy could want Patterson to go wth Green

I guess given our need for excellent players are many different positions, my response is that is there was a WR, DE, or DB that another team though was good enough to give up a first and second rounder to get, that itself is a good indication that these players at 12 are not interchangeable with those at 25

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The beatings will continue until morale improves.

eesti Wrote:
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> THE Truth Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > DT: Right guy int he right spot in the
> draft...but
> > not a priority.
>
>
> DT is not a priority? As of right now Paul Soliai
> and Kheeston Randall are the only two DT's we
> have. We may lose a Pro Bowler in Starks. If we
> want to remain an effective defense we have to get
> a PB type player for the 3-technique spot.
>
> Starks was a 3 down player last year. Do you
> really think Odrick can fill his shoes? I'm not so
> sure.
>
> Tony McDaniel battled injuries last year but he is
> a FA as well.


I think we can get a solid DT for little money in FA.

If the right guy is there at the right spot in the draft, sure. But Defense isn't our biggest concern this off-season, and DT isn't our biggest concern on defense. DE, CB, OLB, FS, are all far more vital to our future success on that side of the ball and they all come behind WR, TE, OL this year.


It really boils down to what we do in FA. If we add a pass rusher and an OG and OT then we can get away with drafting a DT early, but I'm not overly concerned about DT this year.

Keep in mind, this isn't a 1 year fix. Somethings will have to get punted to next year. DT is one I'd punt if I couldn't find a cheap FA or a GREAT draft value (like Lamar Miller in the 4th round).

berkeley223 Wrote:
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> I guess given our need for excellent players are
> many different positions, my response is that is
> there was a WR, DE, or DB that another team though
> was good enough to give up a first and second
> rounder to get, that itself is a good indication
> that these players at 12 are not interchangeable
> with those at 25

Like Randy Travis says, "Forever and ever, Amen."

if chance warmak is there at 12 should we take him? I hate to take a Guard but if he's supposed to be an instant and 10 year pro bowler then maybe you gotta pull the trigger since I don't see any other sure things in the draft?

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The beatings will continue until morale improves.

I would not take a guard especially a slow one at that #12. I would not take a player that has had trouble in school that high either Like Patterson.

THE Truth Wrote:
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> I think we can get a solid DT for little money in
> FA.

We can get one in FA for reasonable money but I don't believe you can just plug and play and still remain status quo. We were borderline dominant for a long stretch vs the run for a reason. I don't think you can ignore one spot just to fix the other. We need to plug in comparable quality.

There are about 16 DT's in FA this year that graded out better than Starks, who I think had a down year. 4 or 5 of those are too old IMO and probably not the right choice. About half of the remaining guys won't fit the position and may be NT's instead of 3 technique DT's. That leaves about 5 DT's that would fit and pick up where Starks left off.

> If the right guy is there at the right spot in the
> draft, sure. But Defense isn't our biggest
> concern this off-season, and DT isn't our biggest
> concern on defense.

That may have been the case if we were using last years roster as the basis. The fact is we lost two DT's who were heavy contributors to a top 10 rush defense. It now becomes a big concern unless we want to regress. We forced teams to be one dimensional last year but if they can do both, it won't matter how much we improve our offense. Stopping the run is half the battle and there are no guarantees that we will be that much better vs the pass. It's a question until proven otherwise. If we can resign Starks (or a better player) and field the same (comparable) front 4, chances are pretty good that we will be just as good vs the run. We need to build off of that instead of trading off. The secondary is harder to predict. You can go out and get a Nnamdi and Cromartie but they may not fit the system and could still suck just like Philly did last year.

DE, CB, OLB, FS, are all far
> more vital to our future success on that side of
> the ball and they all come behind WR, TE, OL this
> year.

We were pretty good last year with what we have at DE. We could stand to get a better rush but I think Vernon will be better so we can use what we already have in place (worst case scenario).

> It really boils down to what we do in FA. If we
> add a pass rusher and an OG and OT then we can get
> away with drafting a DT early, but I'm not overly
> concerned about DT this year.

I'm not saying we have to draft one early...just that it has to be addressed by a quality player. It could be FA or the draft.

>
> Keep in mind, this isn't a 1 year fix.
> Somethings will have to get punted to next year.
> DT is one I'd punt if I couldn't find a cheap FA
> or a GREAT draft value (like Lamar Miller in the
> 4th round).

That depends on your definition of "fix". We need to be in the playoffs this year IMO. We lost many positions due to FA and the only reason we have 45 mil to spend is because we chose not to resign our own players. No matter how you look at it we have to replace EVERY one of those players.

We can afford to let Bush go because we have Miller. We don't have that luxury at DT unless Odrick can be a full time starter and stop the run and rush the passer as well as Starks. I would rather use him as he was used last year....as a backup DT in a rotation.

We have 8-9 starters to replace. I think we can upgrade but not overspend. We just have to get the right players for our systems.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

Trade down? Hell no. Draft a wr in the first 2 rounds and then then best player available.

I would trade down and try to trade some players (Odrick, Clay Thomas). There are some good players to be had in the middle rounds of this draft.

I dont know why you guys want the phins to draft receivers so low. When this is our top priority going into this year.

we do not need receivers from other systems guys.

samsam3738 Wrote:
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> I dont know why you guys want the phins to draft
> receivers so low. When this is our top priority
> going into this year.
>
> we do not need receivers from other systems guys.

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I didn't go back to re-read the posts on this subject, but are there people on this board advocating drafting WRs in the lower rounds? If so, we can't do that. We have been doing that for the last few years and it has gotten us nowhere.

We need to sign Wallace (or Jennings if we can't sign W), and the first pick in the second round should be on a WR.

You are correct, Sam, that WR is a high priority for Miami. Ireland can't screw around; he doesn't get it done, he will (probably) be delaying RT's growth, and as far as Ireland himself goes, it could be his job.

No, WR IS a high priority, but regrettably, there just isn't a WR good enough to draft at 12.

I think we need to resign hartline, sign either wallace or jennings, and then make 2 of the top 3 picks be 2 WR or 1 WR and 1 TE

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.