The report - using accounts from pretty much everyone else interviewed - basically said "we believe Jim is lying to us" about the biggest black eye this franchise has ever had.

Philbin claims he didn't know and the report apparently basically seems to support that (though he should have known). If that's the case, then Turner had to have been hiding it from Philbin, as they discussed Martin's emotional/depression issues. Philbin preaches respect for one another and character.

I can't come to any other conclusion than Turner at least willfully deceived Philbin AND allowed/participated in something that was clearly against what Philbin demanded in terms of conduct. Is there any other way to see it?

If that is the case, Philbin should have fired him immediately upon independent confirmation of what - if he has any intuition at all - he likely suspected to a high degree from the outbreak of this whole fiasco.

If Turner is eventually let go because of his involvement in this, then I would question why it took any more than 10 minutes from the publishing of the report. Again, unless I'm missing something, a man of character who demands the same of those under his authority would act swiftly and decisively.

Because considering Philbin knew Martin was depressed and suicidal, Turner probably assumed he was being overly sensitive and Martins problems related to that not his teammates... Jim Turner was a Marines Officer.... He was hired to be tough.... Martin was soft and had issues with depression before he ever became a Dolphin by Martins own admission... An NFL locker room probably wasn't the best place for him, just like he wouldn't have done so well in a Marines boot camp...

While everyone wants to blame Turner, Incognito and Pouncey, the bottom line is Martin probably didn't and doesn't belong in this line of work.... 99 out of 100 probably don't have a problem with it. Martin was that 1 in 100... Andrew Mcdonald who was named by Martin as another player who was bullied. Said he has nothing but huge respect for Turner and doesn't like the way his relationship with his former oline coach and former team mates are being portrayed... He has nothing but respect for them....

The report is kind of a crock IMO...

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

he should be fired for being the coach of a team whose OL gave up a team record sacks. that he was not fired for that regardless of anything else show the problem with Philbin and this team---no accountability

but now that it appears that he lied to the investigators (the wells report concluded he did) he should've been fired right after the team read the report. this is inexcusable.

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

Glad I put the " unless I'm missing something" disclaimer :-)

I didn't know that players' support for Richie was a united voice with no dissention.

I do agree that Martin didn't belong in the environment, and I actually assume our locker room was not that far away from the norm in the NFL. He probably was the 1 in 100.

However, if Philbin preaches respect for one another and character, how can he tolerate Turner's willful disregard for that? Perhaps Philbin means those things within the context of a football locker room where respect for one another is demonstrated differently than in a white-collar office. Maybe possible, but a tough postion to defend.

Tsstamper- Except Mcdonald wasn't identified by name in the report. He came out on his own and made this statement, he had no incentive to let it known he was player "A"... Other then to stick up for Turner and the Dolphins although he is no longer with the team......


Berk- I agree he should or could have been fired for his record and performance of his line..... But I don't think he needs to be fired for the Wells reports... especially when one of the players accused of being harassed and bullied, on his own chose to speak out in Turners defense that the report didn't portrayed the relationship or story properly.. Martin tried to make Mcdonald a victiom to Wells, when Mcdonald clearly claims that is inaccurate....

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/2014 12:38PM by Crowder52.

crowder, it's not a matter of whether what was done in the locker room could be deemed harassment. it's a matter of lying to investigators, in an investigation that the team itself requested. numerous players said turner said certain things and turner straight up denied every saying them and even pretended he did not know what they were talking about. in my line of work if an employer tells me an employee lied in the course of an internal investigation, I'd say fire the guy, no hesitation. you just can't do that

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

tsstamper Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Glad I put the " unless I'm missing something"
> disclaimer :-)
>
> I didn't know that players' support for Richie was
> a united voice with no dissention.
>
> I do agree that Martin didn't belong in the
> environment, and I actually assume our locker room
> was not that far away from the norm in the NFL.
> He probably was the 1 in 100.
>
> However, if Philbin preaches respect for one
> another and character, how can he tolerate
> Turner's willful disregard for that? Perhaps
> Philbin means those things within the context of a
> football locker room where respect for one another
> is demonstrated differently than in a white-collar
> office. Maybe possible, but a tough postion to
> defend.

******************************************

How 'bout this....Turner did tell Philbin what was going on, but Philbin did nothing about it. If this is the case, I can see where Philbin would have a hard time firing Turner. It would have to come from Boss Ross.

I have a hard time believing Philbin knew NOTHING about what was going on.

I understand what you are saying Berk, but I imagine that most of the players and coaches knew what was being portrayed was being used out of context to hurt them... Philbin knew what was going on and that Turners was not going to feed the fire of the mischaracterizations that were taking place in the investigation....

Let me give you an example, it was brought up that Turner bought Mcdonald a male blow up doll for Christmas to harass him, Turner denied it...
How about I give you some insight to that, the Dolphins do what is known as a horrible gift exchange. You try and bring horrible gifts and each person that opens it has the choice to keep it or pass it on to the next guy and choose another. SO the joke is that you are trying to choose from the worst gifts... It is something i know they do, because I heard a funny story about Odrick bringing the China wrestler porn, with the coinciding replica dildo.... And everybody was in tears laughing trying to get rid of it...
But when you read the Wells report that was this big deal characterized as harassment and homophobic, was his male sex doll gift... The wells report was a setup and the real story on a lot these issues didn't really come out... They were mis characterized, like the gift.... So Turner just denied it... But Philbin knows what went on....

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/2014 01:16PM by Crowder52.

still doesn't change that he lied to the investigators

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The beatings will continue until morale improves.

As Charles Barkley says
"The locker room is racist, homophobic and sexist," "And I miss it."

I guess Berk, but if the investigation looked like a railroad. Saying there was a player induced fine for blaming another player for your bad play when watching game tape... Therefor,Martin was afraid of blaming another player for his problems to a coach. And Turner knew about this fining and therefore was a bad coach who promoted a culture for Martin not to snitch about his problems with Incognito, just seems ridiculous... It seems like many players and coaches just didn't get into the nonsense when the investigation was looking to mischaracterize goings on to promote more of the nonsense. So they just said they didn't remember that.. While these guys were testosterone filled meatheads, and immature, they are football players... I don't know about u guys but when haven't football players you have hung out with not acted like this especially in a pack..

The whole idea and culture of a locker room is survival of the fittest, only the strong survive.. Turner is a Marine, they have the same philosophy. Coaches and teammates want to break you if you are weak.. In football weakness around you cost you games. In the Marines weakness around you gets you killed...

I think the report is a lawyer with no locker room experience, judging the locker room as a regular work place... It would be like if Wells did the same report during bootcamp or paris island investigating a story of a weak marine who dropped out...

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

Simple--Turner must go.

Sort of odd that the coaches who's players underperformed last year are getting replaced but not for the usual reasons.

LB coach: Took another job
O-Line coach: off-field incident
OC: fired

I guess it's true, there is more than one way to skin a cat.

We may be better by default.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

Seems like the Dolphins have totally ostracized the local media. They just don't care what they write anymore.

Turner should be gone for lying to investigators. But primarily he should have been fired immediately after the season for coaching a unit that gave up a franchise record in sacks.
There is no accountability on this team which is why it sucks.
Look at Turner, or even worse look at Philbin, who brings nothing to the table, oversaw an out of control locker room that he was clueless about and is REWARDED for this with incomprehensable praise from the owner and more power in the send of being the "unfireable" coach the incoming GM must work around.
yay dolphins.

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

Just because the Wells report concluded that Turner lied during the investigation does not make it so.

If its ever proven beyond doubt by "credible people" (Wells is a lawyer so how credible can he really be? No offense to any lawyers but, most of them are lying, manipulating, elitest, self serving, only in it for the money, jerks.) then I agree, fire him...until such time he should get the benefit of the doubt.

Now to fire him because his unit played poorly and he did very little to fix it...thats a different story. But then again, maybe the possibility exists that given the players we had left what he did was all he could do. Maybe he really did get the best out of the unit...bad as that may have been.

How many reports does it take to get to the center of the Bullygate Scandal? The world may never know.

Yeah but berk........at least we're not the Cleveland Browns........

CROWDER52 you need to stop comparing these guys to the marines. This group (incog, Pouncey, Jerry) sound nothing like the ones that I have worked with. These guys continued to pummel this guy even after the rookie season was over. One thing I did notice about Martin at the start of the second season. I could tell that he had worked out, lost some body fat and added muscle. He came in ready to work. It was time to stop the bs and build that unit. These guys could not stop the bs and build. Maybe there was a reason Jerry could not get serious and elevate his game, maybe there was a reason Pouncey could not read defenses and call out adjustments, maybe there was a reason Incog gave up sacks on the same play when the OLB stunted and rushed him head on. These guys were STUPID and their heads were to full of folly and bs.

These guys sound like the same bull headed stupid ass player like the guy you named your handle after. Another talented but bone headed guy who never reached his potential. These type do not make winners and would never make marines.

Ken Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just because the Wells report concluded that
> Turner lied during the investigation does not make
> it so.
>

OK but from the team's point of view it does. The team hired these guys to investigate and the investigators concluded Turner lied. There's really not much room for doubt here unless the team is going to totally disregard the entire report (which clearly they will not)

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The beatings will continue until morale improves.

dolphaholic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yeah but berk........at least we're not the
> Cleveland Browns........


yes but we are not far off, and this stuff is more embarassing than the ownership dysfunction of CLE (our ownership dysfunction is a very close second)

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ken Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Just because the Wells report concluded that
> > Turner lied during the investigation does not
> make
> > it so.
> >
>
> OK but from the team's point of view it does. The
> team hired these guys to investigate and the
> investigators concluded Turner lied. There's
> really not much room for doubt here unless the
> team is going to totally disregard the entire
> report (which clearly they will not)


RE: I don't think they will either, nor should they. But, I do believe Ross wanted the investigation as a PR move because it looks good to outsiders, and shows the NFL that you don't mind things looked at outside of the local office. There is merit in an outside investigation but there is always bias, and agandas, to deal with as well.

Martin got his last victim. Hope he is happy with himself. Bbbbbbut they were mean to me..........I'm sorry, what a pussy move.

GO DOLPHINS!!!!

mizzou15 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> CROWDER52 you need to stop comparing these guys to
> the marines.

Jim TUrner is a Marine, and officer at that, so that is where it came from.. In case you missed it this topic was about a Marine who was our oline coach

> These guys sound like the same bull headed stupid
> ass player like the guy you named your handle
> after. Another talented but bone headed guy who
> never reached his potential. These type do not
> make winners and would never make marines.

Once again Turner was a Marine officer.... Crowder's health was what hurt him the most... Take all the cheap shots you want but we both know,we sure could have used Channing Crowders knowledge of the game and run stopping ability last year... Ellerbe and Wheeler's play last year made Channing look like a HOFer...

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

Not really Crowder was not really a game changer for us. I am Gator fan and thought that Crowder would be the next Ray Lewis. He was a real let down in the nfl (IMO)

I saw the topic