2 questions;

1. Is Sam Brenner our starting LG next year, did we solve one spot early? (eesti, how has he been grading out with PFF?)

2. Do we re-sign B McKinnie as insurance/grooming for a drafted LT, or do we go out and get a younger veteran LT ala Brandon Albert or someone similar?

It'd be nice if Brenner fills one hole, it's also nice we wouldn't have to use another high draft choice to fill that hole. One of my main complaints from the various front offices of late was thier inability to find quality O-linemen late in the draft or college FA's. Brenner would help lessen the blow of waisted early/mid round draft picks over the last few years.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/16/2013 03:28AM by dolphaholic.

I'd like to see us hang on to McKinnie. It's been several years since our LT position has been this solid.

Sam Brenner had a -0.4 grade at LG yesterday, -1.4 in run blocking.

Not the best day, BUT... the kid is just starting to get his feet wet. I definately like his fit in the scheme better than Incognito.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

In 190 snaps he ranks -2.3 overall with his only positive grade of the season vs SD. The one bad really bad game vs Carolina really effected his overall grade. Other than a very bad outing vs Carolina, he has been about average (grade 0) ....which according to PFF is doing your job. Nothing more, nothing less. They (PFF) seem to be most confident in their o-line grades compared to other positions.

A lot of negative attention is given to linemen for sacks. (rightly so IMO) Incognito gave up 6 in 8 games but seemed to have erased those bad plays by going above and beyond on other plays....like getting downfield, pulling or making an extraordiary saving block. His grade holds at +6.8. He was also playing next to a bad LT and probably had to overcompensate and put too much time into helping Martin.

Bryant McKinnie has a -2.1. Has just slightly more good games (7-6) than bad but his issue is always the off season and being lazy. Will he show some dedication to remain in Miami? Will he sign a new fair contract?

John Jerry has a -5.5. Pouncey has a +9.4 (ranked 10th).

The most improved player of all is Tyson Clabo. He also had a terrible game vs Carolina (-7.2) which severely lowered his average. Especially if you look at his resurgance starting in week 9 vs Cincy. 6 out of 7 games have been positive for him since then.

While they may be playing better as a unit, they still need to get much better. Coaches have helped with shorter passes and quick releases, play action that goes along with better running from our backs.

Sam Brenner is still very young and is obviously only going to get better. Maybe he can earn a spot on the right side next year since Jerry is a FA. Then we can concentrate on getting a more athletic guy to play LG.

Hopefully Dallas Thomas can make the jump as well. Could be he just needs to add some fucntional strength. Let's see how hard he works this off season.

Jerry and Clabo are FA's. Brenner is signed through 2014. I believe McKinnie can void the final year of his contract that did run through 2014.

Nate Garner is at -5.9.

We probably have a much different line next year. As of now it looks like....

LT ?
LG Thomas
C Pouncey
RG Brenner
RT ?

Yes, McK has been a good pickup but his is already 34. Clabo is 32.

Available FA's next year.....

1st tier: LT Jordan Gross, LT Branden Albert
2nd tier: RT Austin Howard

LG Travelle Wharton, LG Wade Smith

How about a complete new left side with former teammates Wharton and Gross?

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

I'm with you holic .

I'd like to bring McKinnie back as insurance, even if we sign a guy like Brandon Albert.

And I'm fine with giving Brenner a starting spit going into next summer. He's earned it.

Our major needs in free agency and the draft are Oline, te, and RB on offense. And DT, lb, and fs on defense.

Other than Oline, none are dire needs.

It's nice to finally be in retooling mode instead of rebuilding mode. Been a loooong time comin'.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/16/2013 08:09AM by THE Truth.

FS? Clemens has played well. Is it because he is a FA?

I would spend the money on Eugene Monroe. (Didn't realize Gross was so old) If McKinnie has proven anything, it is that he is unreliable and getting older. Monroe is 26, athletic and good in all phases. Not just decent in pass pro.

LT Monroe
LG Wharton
C Pouncey
RG Brenner/draft pick
RT Clabo (resign)

draft a LB high....Shayne Skov, Christain Jones or AJ Johnson followed by a linemen (RT) or two (G)...1-2-3-

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> FS? Clemens has played well. Is it because he is a
> FA?


Yes, he's a FA. But he's also not a playmaker. We could use a ballhawking Fs who can catch.


>
> I would spend the money on Eugene Monroe. (Didn't
> realize Gross was so old) If McKinnie has proven
> anything, it is that he is unreliable and getting
> older. Monroe is 26, athletic and good in all
> phases. Not just decent in pass pro.
>
> LT Monroe
> LG Wharton
> C Pouncey
> RG Brenner/draft pick
> RT Clabo (resign)
>
> draft a LB high....Shayne Skov, Christain Jones or
> AJ Johnson followed by a linemen (RT) or two
> (G)...1-2-3-

I'd prefer to see us fill the Oline in FA as much as possible. A veteran RB like legarrette blunt would be nice also.

Then we can look for impact guys in the draft at TE, DT, LB and FS.

THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm with you holic .


I kinda liked "holiday" better

I agree with Truth. We are retooling now not rebuilding. It's a different monster.

Once we fix Oline, we are looking at replacing solid starters with playmakers. For years, we have just been trying to replace below average players with solid starters.

For the off-season, I'd like to see us resign Grimes and Starks unless their demands are outrageous. But they deserve a nice pay day.

I'd look into Clemons and Soliai as well but I'd only sign them for team friendly deals. Carroll wouldn't be a bad resigning either but i'd like to see Taylor and Davis to get some more PT so we can see what we have.

For the Oline, I'd wait out the market. We can't afford the top guys but if the market is stagnant like the RT market was last year then we might be able to get a good player on a reasonable deal.

Otherwise I'd look hard at bringing back Mckinnie or clabo on a cheap one year deal. I don't think Dallas thomas can be relied upon for anything at this point.

We need to invest some draft picks on the Oline but I'd prefer to use the 1st rounder on a DT or FS (if Clemons leaves). I'd also like to see a MLB type in the middle rounds.

A reasonable Oline outlook:

LT: vet- Mckinnie, Monroe, Albert
LG: brenner
C: pouncey
RG: 2/3 round rookie
RT: clabo or DT

Please no clavo.

dolphaholic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> THE Truth Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I'm with you holic .
>
>
> I kinda liked "holiday" better


hahahaha.

Damn "smart" phone auto correct.

I thought I caught it in time...

phinsfan402 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I agree with Truth. We are retooling now not
> rebuilding. It's a different monster.
>
> Once we fix Oline, we are looking at replacing
> solid starters with playmakers. For years, we
> have just been trying to replace below average
> players with solid starters.

Exactly right 402.


>
> For the off-season, I'd like to see us resign
> Grimes and Starks unless their demands are
> outrageous. But they deserve a nice pay day.


I agree on both. but I'd offer Soliai and Starks the same team friendly deal and sign whomever takes it first.



>
> I'd look into Clemons and Soliai as well but I'd
> only sign them for team friendly deals. Carroll
> wouldn't be a bad resigning either but i'd like to
> see Taylor and Davis to get some more PT so we can
> see what we have.


We have a lot of options at CB. I'm good with whatever we decide to do so long as Grimes is back.


I'd take Clemons back on the cheap, but I'd prefer a guy who can catch the ball in that spot.


>
> For the Oline, I'd wait out the market. We can't
> afford the top guys but if the market is stagnant
> like the RT market was last year then we might be
> able to get a good player on a reasonable deal.
>
> Otherwise I'd look hard at bringing back Mckinnie
> or clabo on a cheap one year deal. I don't think
> Dallas thomas can be relied upon for anything at
> this point.



Agreed.




>
> We need to invest some draft picks on the Oline
> but I'd prefer to use the 1st rounder on a DT or
> FS (if Clemons leaves). I'd also like to see a
> MLB type in the middle rounds.


I don't think you can expect an O-lineman taken beyond the top 45 or 50 picks to be an impact starter year one. I'd look to FA to fill out the line because those guys are NFL ready at this point strength -wise.

But I'd invest a few picks in O-linemen in the draft to develop for the following year.

I'd like to see us go TE, LB, DT, RB and OL in the draft.

And I'd only go TE if its for a stud like Ebron in the 1st.




>
> A reasonable Oline outlook:
>
> LT: vet- Mckinnie, Monroe, Albert
> LG: brenner
> C: pouncey
> RG: 2/3 round rookie
> RT: clabo or DT


McKinnie and Clabo were very cheap this year. Neither is in line for much of a raise. I'd bring them both back and I'd sign solid RG.

Then you can take a run at Albert or Monroe for LT if the money is there and you can draft 2 interior guys in rounds 3-7 for the future.

OT: Albert (?), McKinnie, Clabo, Thomas
OG: Brenner, FA, Garner, Rookie, Rookie,
C: Pouncey

I really want a stud LBer first round. I would love to pick up Jarius Byrd and Monroe as our F/A pick ups also resign Solai. Starks not good versus run and will want to much money. I would draft a FS second round and Tackle third and guard fourth fifth. I would try to trade up our sixth and seventh round picks to make out third through fifth rounds higher picks.

Oh and resign Keller for TE. Then 2015 draft I would go Wr and TE.

Starks is not good against the run? Since when and based on what exactly?

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

From when I watch every game this year. Solai is struggling too against the run. Look at how many rushing yards we allow, also how many gaping holes the rbs just come on through because our Defensive tackles not stuffing the rbs at the line. Doesn't help when our lbers can't tackle either.

True, but our tackles are not dominating the line like last year. Hell I remember Solai just bursting through the line a lot last year. This year he's been smh...

McKinnie is a lazy guy. You can see he knows the play. When the play calls for the qb to let the ball go on a quick count Mckinney holds his block for a quick count. I like him but no we do not keep him next year. Clabo still gives up sacks, he should go. Jerry I respect the hell out of this guy I hope he goes to a winner. I think we can sign Starks next year I don't think anyone is going to drop big money on him. Solia, we need the 2012 version not sure why he dropped off not trying to figure, just drop him:

With that draft OT in round one and a DT in rnd 3.

1> Cam Erving ... OT FSU or Lewann MI
2> Cedric Ogbehi. OT TX A&M
3> Dan McCullers. DT TN


I would make a practice squad raid before the end of the season. I would check out these guys:

Marcel Jones N.O. T Nebraska
Senio Kelemente NO G Washington
V Painter DEN T Va Tech

Yes, resign McKinnie and Clabo. But then we should sign two O-Line players in F/A...and we should spend no less than two draft picks in the first three rounds on the O-Line.

The other pick in the first three rounds should be on a big play LB.

No one should be given a job, the best five guys should start...period.

Clabo? No I don't think so. He was a walking turnstile 4-5 games ago. McKinnie still has Gas in the tank . We are on a possible Play off run only because of him.

GO DOLPHINS!!!!

Sickofit+1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> From when I watch every game this year. Solai is
> struggling too against the run. Look at how many
> rushing yards we allow, also how many gaping holes
> the rbs just come on through because our Defensive
> tackles not stuffing the rbs at the line. Doesn't
> help when our lbers can't tackle either.

I'm not seeing it. I have watched every game twice this year. I am consistently seeing Soliai blow through the line. He has 2 missed tackles, Starks has 4. Ellerbe is among league leaders for MLB's in missed tackles with 13! Wheeler has 17 and leads the ALL NFL LINEBACKERS. By comparison, Brandon Spikes has missed 3 all year. That's missed tackles. Not failing to get off a block. It means they just whiffed. They are obviously not comfortable in the defense yet and have no instincts. Is it lack of film study? Preparation? I don't know but they are not playing well at all.

Sometimes perception is reality but why blame the DT's when you know the LBer's are playing terrible? Starks is playing at a pro bowl level and is having a MUCH better year than 2012. Solaia's numbers are up as well and I see it on the field every week. Not sure what you're seeing.

The DT's can only do so much. At some point the LB's have to take some pressure off them.

You know who leads the team in tackles for loss? Olivier Vernon with 12. Not Wheeler or Ellerbe....the weak side defensive end. Probably because teams are running right at Wheeler (the weakside L. Vernon is tied for 3rd in the league BTW.

Odrick has 9. Cam Wake and Starks are next with 7 each. Solaia 5, Wheeler 5, I can't even find Ellerbe.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

Dolphins great road schedule next year in terms of cities: NY, NE, Chicago, Denver and London

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

Cohesion is key for an O-Line...PERIOD!!!

MIAMI's O-Line is just beginning to look like a cohesive unit, and we're winning again! I don't think that it's an accident at all.

Our starting Ts are veterans, and pretty solid: no reason to panic or over-react. At age 31 and 32, MIAMI should look for another T, but not in "panic mode": just get a very solid one, by either Draft or F/A. At C, POUNCEY is a "given": definitely a "top 5" C. At RG, JERRY's not All-World or anything, but he isn't bad either--not at all. And that young kid we are trying at LG (BRENNER?) seems to be working out very well/a lot better than we had a right to hope for. And of course, GARNER is GARNER. Once again, he has filled in very well...this time at C, when POUNCEY got sick. I've watched him for a while, and he can play, and do well at, EVERY O-Line position... except LT.

So, where does MIAMI go from here with regard to its OL? Well, get stronger/better, obviously. We have our Draft Picks, and we should again have enough CAP $$$ for A LOT of good work in F/A. But the O-Line seems NOT to be as big a problem for us as some would have us believe. We WILL find out...and soon. I, myself, just don't think that OL will require LOTS of F/As and Draft Picks. And I would NOT use my 1st Round Pick on an OLman unless (for some reason) someone REALLY and truly "topshelf" fell a long, long way. I would much prefer to use both my 1st and 2nd Round Picks on another WR who is a "burner", and on a topshelf CB. And if either of them can return Punts and Kickoffs, all the better: that (i/m/o) would give us one more solid-looking HB.

THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I agree on both. but I'd offer Soliai and Starks
> the same team friendly deal and sign whomever
> takes it first.

I don't think Starks would take a team friendly deal at this point. Soliai might though. I prefer Starks but both are over 30 so it would be nice to avoid a long term contract.

> I'd take Clemons back on the cheap, but I'd prefer
> a guy who can catch the ball in that spot.

I'm not against letting Clemons walk but I question how feasible it would be to find a better player. There aren't a lot of good safeties right now so to upgrade Clemons we would have to sign Jarius Byrd in FA or take a guy like Clinton-Dix in the first round. It's a gamble, of either money or high draft picks, that we don't have to take as long as Clemons remains cheap.

> I don't think you can expect an O-lineman taken
> beyond the top 45 or 50 picks to be an impact
> starter year one. I'd look to FA to fill out the
> line because those guys are NFL ready at this
> point strength -wise.
>
> But I'd invest a few picks in O-linemen in the
> draft to develop for the following year.
>
> I'd like to see us go TE, LB, DT, RB and OL in the
> draft.
>
> And I'd only go TE if its for a stud like Ebron in
> the 1st.

Let's agree to disagree about TE for now.

Otherwise, I agree. Although, I wouldn't be upset if we didn't take a RB and I wouldn't mind seeing a S in the mix as well.

> McKinnie and Clabo were very cheap this year.
> Neither is in line for much of a raise. I'd
> bring them both back and I'd sign solid RG.

Agree, although if Albert or Monroe signs I'd pass completely on Mckinnie. It's not like McKinnie or Clabo will be signed quickly so miami should be able to see what happens with the top guys and then decide on those two.

> Then you can take a run at Albert or Monroe for LT
> if the money is there and you can draft 2 interior
> guys in rounds 3-7 for the future.
>
> OT: Albert (?), McKinnie, Clabo, Thomas
> OG: Brenner, FA, Garner, Rookie, Rookie,
> C: Pouncey

This would be a reasonable scenario. Although, if Miami doesn't get Albert or Monroe they should draft an OT.

A lot of fans are calling to draft multiple OL early and think it will fix the problem. That simply isn't true. Almost all of the highly picked rookie OL have struggled a lot this season and veteran presence is extremely beneficial on the OL.

Ireland is backed into a corner on this one. He skimped on the OL last off-season in favor of building up the rest of the team. To make things worse Martin turned out to be a pussy, Incognito can't be resigned, and Dallas Thomas hasn't shown enough to be penciled in as a starter next year. Pouncey is the only certainty for next season. He could go in any direction and, whatever fans think, OL will take at least two off-seasons to rebuild.

LUDUPORCU Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I would much prefer to use both my 1st and 2nd Round Picks on
> another WR who is a "burner", and on a topshelf
> CB. And if either of them can return Punts and
> Kickoffs, all the better: that (i/m/o) would give
> us one more solid-looking HB.


WR will be by far our deepest position when Gibson and Binns come back next year, we didn't draft one high when we were desperate for one, I highly doubt that Ireland uses a 1st or 2nd on a reciever, and the fan base would explode if it's because he's a good return man......no thanks

phinsfan402 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> THE Truth Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I agree on both. but I'd offer Soliai and
> Starks
> > the same team friendly deal and sign whomever
> > takes it first.
>
> I don't think Starks would take a team friendly
> deal at this point. Soliai might though. I
> prefer Starks but both are over 30 so it would be
> nice to avoid a long term contract.
>
> > I'd take Clemons back on the cheap, but I'd
> prefer
> > a guy who can catch the ball in that spot.
>
> I'm not against letting Clemons walk but I
> question how feasible it would be to find a better
> player. There aren't a lot of good safeties right
> now so to upgrade Clemons we would have to sign
> Jarius Byrd in FA or take a guy like Clinton-Dix
> in the first round. It's a gamble, of either
> money or high draft picks, that we don't have to
> take as long as Clemons remains cheap.
>
> > I don't think you can expect an O-lineman taken
> > beyond the top 45 or 50 picks to be an impact
> > starter year one. I'd look to FA to fill out
> the
> > line because those guys are NFL ready at this
> > point strength -wise.
> >
> > But I'd invest a few picks in O-linemen in the
> > draft to develop for the following year.
> >
> > I'd like to see us go TE, LB, DT, RB and OL in
> the
> > draft.
> >
> > And I'd only go TE if its for a stud like Ebron
> in
> > the 1st.
>
> Let's agree to disagree about TE for now.
>
> Otherwise, I agree. Although, I wouldn't be upset
> if we didn't take a RB and I wouldn't mind seeing
> a S in the mix as well.
>
> > McKinnie and Clabo were very cheap this year.
> > Neither is in line for much of a raise. I'd
> > bring them both back and I'd sign solid RG.
>
> Agree, although if Albert or Monroe signs I'd pass
> completely on Mckinnie. It's not like McKinnie or
> Clabo will be signed quickly so miami should be
> able to see what happens with the top guys and
> then decide on those two.
>
> > Then you can take a run at Albert or Monroe for
> LT
> > if the money is there and you can draft 2
> interior
> > guys in rounds 3-7 for the future.
> >
> > OT: Albert (?), McKinnie, Clabo, Thomas
> > OG: Brenner, FA, Garner, Rookie, Rookie,
> > C: Pouncey
>
> This would be a reasonable scenario. Although, if
> Miami doesn't get Albert or Monroe they should
> draft an OT.
>
> A lot of fans are calling to draft multiple OL
> early and think it will fix the problem. That
> simply isn't true. Almost all of the highly
> picked rookie OL have struggled a lot this season
> and veteran presence is extremely beneficial on
> the OL.

RE: I'm one of those fans and think we should use two of our first three picks on the O-Line. However this belief does not mean that those guys HAVE to start right away...if they did then it would be good but we have to bring in guys that will be younger and that will be around for a long time and we will need depth in any event. McKinnie and Clabo are not those guys, even though we should resign them...that said, none of this means that they should be given starting jobs. They should have to earn them just lke everyone else. We have been in the midst of a youth movement on this team lately and it should continue along the O-Line.
>
> Ireland is backed into a corner on this one. He
> skimped on the OL last off-season in favor of
> building up the rest of the team. To make things
> worse Martin turned out to be a pussy, Incognito
> can't be resigned, and Dallas Thomas hasn't shown
> enough to be penciled in as a starter next year.
> Pouncey is the only certainty for next season. He
> could go in any direction and, whatever fans
> think, OL will take at least two off-seasons to
> rebuild.

RE: Disagree...if we draft two quality guys and sign two more in F/A as well as resigning McKinnie and Clabo we will have potentially upgraded the line from top to bottom as well as preserving continuity and adding depth.

If Brenner continues his good play, Thomas develops, Pouncey stays the course and Garner improves to push Clabo or make him outright expendable, that gives us a quality upgrade all accross the line especially when you add the draft picks and the F/A additions...one of whom might be better than McKinnie is making him also expendable.

The only glaring holes we have then are at LB (need a big time playmaker), CB (Carroll) and finding another Reshad Jones at saftey.

Then there is trying to find a young, dominating replacement for Starks because he isn't getting any younger and will have 11 years in the NFL after the this season.

Everything after that is tweaks, depth, and developmental players. (aka Special Teamers)