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Miami Dolphins Civilized Discussion :  Phins.com Phorums The fastest message board... ever.
This is a moderated phorum for the CIVILIZED discussion of the Miami Dolphins. In this phorum, there are rules and moderators to make sure you abide by the rules. The moderators for this phorum are JC and Colonel
Posted by: realist ()
Date: January 04, 2009 03:24PM

Some people are ready to blow up the team, but the sky is not falling. It is a drag we lost...no doubt. But this was a winnable game. We were in scoring position 3 times down by 17 points. Chad threw a pick, we scored a TD, and our ridiculous reverse play took us out of scoring range.

Over-all our team was good enough to play and beat the 11-5 Ravens. Our defense did not cost us the game. Our WR's were good enough to get open, the OL provided 'decent'protection.

Chad blew the game with some help from Ted Ginn. That is the reality of it all. Ginn was open, the ball was too high. The ball should have been in Ginn's belly, and Ginn should have gone up for it with urgency. Chad threw into triple coverage deep.

We were 11-5 in a tough division with another 11-5 team, We beat every team in our division at least once, we beat every team in the AFC West, we were 3-1 against the AFC West.

This team is competitive. We have fewer missing pieces this off-season than we did last season.

- Our OL still needs improvement, but the Left Tackle spot is finally solved!! it gets easier after that.

- If it is possible..our running back quality is even better. Once that OL improved...look out.

- WR...Ginn is crap, but at leats we know that now. Bess, Camarillo, and even London are keepers. Now we need to find/sign a deep threat.

-QB...Pennington stays and competes with Henne. If Chad Jr. can't beat him out, then hopefully our OL/RB improvements coupled with our Defensive improvements will allow Pennington to 'not hurt us' next year.

I hate that we lost. I hate how we lost. But next year should see us back in the hunt and on the rise while other teams are on the decline. The Bills hit a speed bump, the Jets will need to find a QB, and the Pats are aging. ( Scot Pioli leaving makes me wonder if Bilicheat is getting ready to take off).

I am looking forward to the off-season and next season. This year was a fun ride. We were NOT going to win the Superbowl...so bett to lose now with our faults exposed and a better draft slot than to go one round deeper drop 4-5 spots in the draft and get exposed next week.

Be happy. We are AFC EAST Champs, and do not have to be embarrassed to wear our team apparel.

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Re: Thoughts
Posted by: Ken ()
Date: January 04, 2009 04:52PM

I wouldn't be embarrassed to wear my team apparel at all. Even last season I wore my stuff proudly and even though I thought we'd win 3-4 games this season I'm glad that they exceeded everyone's expectations...except for Gotirule. I still maintain (even if I caught quite a bit of undeserved, very opinionated and narrow minded flack from that belief) that the team needed to lose a few more games to get a better talent pool to chose from in the draft but they didn't and it's all good. But like I said originally they shouldn't tank any games and they didn't. They did very well this season and it sure was fun sticking it to all of my friends that are Tampa, San Francisco, Jets, Patriots and Dallas fans. With some well placed improvements to the roster hopefully we'll be able to do it again next season...while taking it a step or two farther.

BTW: I don't think that Ginn is as bad as people are making him out to be...I just think that right now he's being asked to more than he is able to do. Only dressing three WR's for this game was a stupid decision IMHO. He really did make some positive strides this season. He may never end up being a really good #1 but he may be just fine as a #2 or #3. However, we sure do need to find someone that is a real and consistent #1.

I agree with Realist...the sky is not falling. right now it looks pretty bright.

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Re: Thoughts
Posted by: montequi ()
Date: January 04, 2009 06:35PM

Ginn isn't "bad", he's just not a #1 WR. For a #9 pick, he's garbage. Plain and simple. He can't even run back punts or kickoffs, let alone get open deep consistently.

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Re: Thoughts
Posted by: KrK ()
Date: January 04, 2009 06:40PM

I'm also not going to Dump on Pennington either. He had a bad day, but he was getting pressured constantly and not every INT was necessarily a bad decision, the Raven's defense is good and they go for the INT's.

I am confident we'll be a good team again next year.... for a 1st year rebuild, this season was fantastic!

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Re: Thoughts
Posted by: Aqua&Orange ()
Date: January 05, 2009 03:24AM

This Ginn hater stuff is way over the top. Do you people actually watch the games and understand how the game and WR position is played?

Ahhhh....nevermind, its not worth it anymore.

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Re: Thoughts
Posted by: phinfatale ()
Date: January 05, 2009 03:52AM

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Re: Thoughts
Posted by: tboneabbott ()
Date: January 05, 2009 03:55AM

First of all we had a great season. I am very prod of this team,and I can not wait for this years draft. The Dolphins lost this game yesterday because of two reasons. First the Offensive line could not get any push in the running game,and could not pass protect. We need to upgrade the offensive line. and second It was the turnovers we had,you can,t win with 5 turnovers.

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Re: Thoughts
Posted by: JC ()
Date: January 05, 2009 05:12AM

phinfatale Wrote:
> There is a reason the Jets got rid of Pennington.

Yeah? Now tell us the reason they replaced him with Favre.

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Re: Thoughts
Posted by: realist ()
Date: January 05, 2009 06:13AM

I wanted to like Ginn. He has potential, but really with his speed he isn't getting open deep, he doesn't fight for the ball, and he isn't terribly effective as a return guy either.

I suppose he has shown improvement, but really by the end of his second year we should know whether or not he is 'the guy'.

Ginn finished as our leading WR, but only because Camarillo was injured and Bess was a rookie.

I will give Gin another year before I write him off. But it would be irresponsible to go into next season expecting Ginn to do more than he did this year.

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Re: Thoughts
Posted by: Leon In Denver ()
Date: January 05, 2009 06:14AM

I just have to laugh at you guys saying Pennington is not any good and that Ginn stinks. I really don't think that you people actually watch what is going on.

Our OL and lack of pass rush caused this loss. You can talk from now until hell freezes over about the QB and WR, plane and simple this game proved that we really need improvement in the OL and the DL if we ever want to move forward.

The Ravens have the formula for success. Further proving that a good QB is needed NOT a great QB. They have a great running game and a great defense. There are two other teams in the NFL that also have the formula. The Giants and the Eagles. The Tiatans are close.

Look for the Ravens to be in the SB.

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Re: Thoughts
Posted by: phinfatale ()
Date: January 05, 2009 06:26AM

JC and all the other Pennington Kool-Aid drinkers: I don't blame us for wanting to believe in Chad. We have been so crappy for so long, and only this year started to believe that we might possibly have a decent QB and team leader. But we will learn the hard way, the way the Jets did, that Pennington is a great backup QB, and that's about it. The minute he has to throw longer than 10 yards we are screwed. The minute he loses his footing we are screwed. The minute he gets out of the pocket we are screwed. He does not have the arm to win WHEN IT COUNTS, AGAINST GOOD TEAMS WITH GREAT DEFENSES.


From the Bleacher Report:
He can win some regular season games, build up his completion percentage, and be a leader on the field. But he is not a Super Bowl-caliber quarterback.It was this truth—this fact—that forced the New York Jets to make the move they made for Brett Favre.

We need to get Henne going, and if that doesn't work, look elsewhere.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/05/2009 06:34AM by phinfatale.

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Re: Thoughts
Posted by: JC ()
Date: January 05, 2009 06:44AM

phinfatale Wrote:
> JC and all the other Pennington Kool-Aid drinkers:

I specifically said I never expected him to be our franchise QB. But he did do a great job leading the Phins during the regular season, especially considering the way he was cast aside in favor of an aging, ineffective St. Brett.

He guided us to a divisional championship, when we weren't even expected to have a winning season. He finally had an awful game and threw a year's worth of interceptions in one day, but don't forget that the haters/naysayers/noodle arm chanters were saying that he would have 16 games like t hat. Yesterday's performance by Chad does not nullify the AFC championship, and all the great scoring drives with great ball control he'd led this team on up until then.

He had "the arm win WHEN IT COUNTS" because those first 16 games during the year...they counted. That last game against the jets, for the AFC East crown, eliminating the Patsies from the playoffs--guess what: that counted too, especially for me as I live in New England.

I, and most rational fans, would have considered our season led by Chad a success even if we'd gone 8-8 this year. If Chad doesn't start for us next year, great...that'd mean that Henne is ready.

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Re: Thoughts
Posted by: eesti ()
Date: January 05, 2009 06:52AM

Chad Pennington won some games for us this year but you can't expect a QB to doit ALL the time.

Look what happened to Manning vs the Chargers. He lost too. CP is no PM but the truth is..he has the intellect and ability to be a SuperBowl QB but he cannot do it by himself no more than Marino could.

One way he could do it is with a more complete team...ala a great running game and defense and we have neither...yet.

We need to continue to build this defense and we can be a top 5 Defense again. Ditto for the running game.

Chad will go into next season as the starter but it is only a matter of time before Henne gets his shot. He can't ride the pine too long. Everyone gets injured and when CP goes down...and he will. Henne will come in and prove himself...or not.

I do expect to see Henne at some point next year. I must say that I think Henne should have gotten a shot yesterday.

Any QB that throws three INT's should be pulled and he threw 4. That's not to say he should lose his job but he should not continue in the game. Not many QB's have ever come back to win after that.

That being said...I don't think CP will be here by the time we build a dominant defense and running game.

“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

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Re: Thoughts
Posted by: EGDolfan ()
Date: January 05, 2009 08:42PM

Nice post Realist. I agree with everything you said here (amazing).

I am more concerned about the future however. I think it will be tougher to win our division once Brady comes back. I think it will be nearly impossible to get 11 wins in the next two years unless we strike gold at the following positions:

WR - Ginn is no Chambers...and Chambers had only one good season, otherwise he has not lived up to his potential. We need someone that can live up to Chamber's potential.

D-line - We either need another bookend to Porter and/or we need a young stud NT that can stop the run consistently.

CB - We need one guy who we can leave on a island against the best WRs in the league, like Randy Moss.

Obviously we also need help at the LB and OG positions also...maybe a couple guys there.

I am very proud of what the Dolphins did this year...but as Sparano said: It gets tougher to move up the next level.

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Re: Thoughts
Posted by: realist ()
Date: January 06, 2009 06:13AM

Hey, long time EG.

Our agreement is scary or a sign of age? Just kidding.

I think Chad was great this season, but he is best once the run game provides a threat. Against the Ravens our run game did not scare them off and Reed just sat back and waited.

I am hopeful that on defense Roth will improve from this year as a LB. He was switched After training Camp started so physically he was bulked up and ready for DE, and mentally he would have been hesitant. This off-season I am sure his program will involve more speed and agility than in prior years. I think merling and Langford will also be improved.

I honestly think on D our biggest weakness is ILB.

I would draft ILb in the 1st round, WR and OLB in the 2nd round.

I just hope Parcells is still around to run this draft.

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Re: Thoughts
Posted by: Ken ()
Date: January 06, 2009 02:40PM

Realist. How many kicks has Ginn run back for touchdowns in his two years? I realize penalties were involved but that is not Ginn's fault...He's doing fine returning kicks but he does need to continue growth as a WR. With better special teams play maybe he will run back more kicks for big plays and scores a bit more frequently.

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Re: Thoughts
Posted by: realist ()
Date: January 06, 2009 04:57PM

agreed. I think he should be returning kicks & punts. Bess has quick feet but doesn't see the seam the same way Ginn does.

Ginn was doing great and then something happened to his returns. He started running to the sidelines again. Not sure if it was coaching or contact?

I over-stated a bit with 'Ginn is Crap'; that was an emotional response to my disappointment in his development.

I don't expect him to be a 60-70 rec guy in his 2nd year, but of he 50 or so hat he did have it would have been nice to see him torch the defenses of the weak teams at least. He has a couple nice plays...but if he is going to be a starter we count on...even as a #2...he needs to burn guys now & then.

HIs best game to my recollection was against Buffalo when McGhee was only 80%.

Year 3 will be his last 'good' shot at redeeming his draft value.

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Re: Thoughts
Posted by: Phinjim ()
Date: January 07, 2009 02:01AM

Good post realist ... pretty much on the mark.

We had an incredible run from 1-15 to 11-5 - awesome!

1. Pennington is good for this team, Henne will be there to make sure he stays good and perhaps take the reins in a year.

2. We truly need another WR, it hurt to have camarillo out as he was developing well, and has the knack of getting open. Bess played well and will only get better.

- We need to get a breakout WR and expect we will.

3. Agree also on needing an ILB, perhaps a young NT if available.

4. The good news ... a lot of young players got a taste of winning ... they'll be hungry for it again next year and have a lot of trust in the program.

Too bad JT & Zack weren't along for the ride, would have liked to have seen it play out different. It however is what it is and we have an extra 2nd & 7th rounder for the way it went.

It would have been neat to see both JT and Porter pressuring the QBs.

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