You can 100% guarantee the coaching staff was behind this move as well...

It's like the old days with Zach, the bigs upfront have to keep the hogs off the LBs so they can use their speed and make plays.

Considering we have (2) DT's rated in the top 10 and (3) in the top 13 AND a top 3 DE, I can't blame the DT's for the LB's not doing their jobs. Koa Misi (+.9) is the 15th ranked 4-3 OLB.

Wheeler is 31st with a -12.5
Ellerbe is 45th with -11.8

They ARE the weakest link....(goodbye)

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

if your lbs are fighting of guards then its the DT's faults. That's football by the time your lbs fight off the guard the rb is already behind him plus the rb has gotten time to build up speed.

DT's back with Zach when was Bowens and Gardner -- we ain't got that kind of BEEF upfront.

And I'm not talking about OLB -- I'm specifically referring to MLB and keeping him clean.

Bowens was great our run defense was pathetic before he showed up. I hope he makes the ring of honor one day.

Koa Misi is 15th I really don't see that guy doing much . I actually see
Ellerbe and & Wheeler making more plays than him.

I think those rankings/ratings are nonsense.

Dansby showed up to camp grossly out of shape a few years back, I was watching an AZ game this year and the announcers even mentioned that he showed up to camp in much better shape this year than years past........think getting cut at the start of FA had anything to do with that? Dansby signed a fat contract with us......and got fat.

Dansby is also playing in a completely different system than Miami's. Maybe it's just a better fit. dolpaholic has a point that getting cut might have motivated Dansby. Dansby started his career in Arizona and undoubtedly has a comfort level there as well.

This is not to say that Ellerbe was a great signing. I have hope he'll turn it around but he has missed to many tackles and been blocked to easily this year.

If you are a MLB'er and can't shed a guard then you are not much good.

Are you guys really blaming our DT's for Wheeler and Ellerbe's lackluster play?

We had the same group of DT's last year. Dansby and Burnett were 20 times better.

We have the 17th ranked run defense this year. We were 7th last year. Only think different is the LBer's.

Bowens 6'4 325
Gardner 6'6 295

Total: 620

Soliai 6'4 344
Starks 6'2 312

Total: 657

There's the beef!

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

and yes...Dansby did show up fat one year. I was calling for his head that year too. 2011 I believe. Problem is...even fat he was better than Ellerbe this year.

402: you may be right about the system but Dansby played in our 4-3 last year and still did better than Ellerbe. It was his first year in the system as well.

Ellerbe played much better in the Ravens 3-4 as an ILB last year. He may just not be a good fit in the 4-3 as a MLB.

Same for Wheeler although he played in a 4-3 in Oakland.

As far as not seeing Misi. He doesn't play all 3 downs as Wheeler and Ellerbe do. He leaves in certain coverages.

They both have been a LITTLE better over the last two weeks but are still missing tackles. They may get a LITTLE better as they play more in the system but a little isn't enough.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

eesti, i agree with what your saying.

DT is definitely not the problem.

In addition to your points about Misi. He plays head up over the TE so he doesn't flow to the play like Ellerbe and Wheeler. Misi plays it like 3-4 OLB, he jams the TE and plays contain to the strong side. But, if the play goes weakside then he has virtually no chance of making the tackle. This coupled with the fact that he's a two-down player cuts down on his counting stats.

Another reason the run defense has regressed is due to the inconsisent play of Reshad Jones.

And the reason I hold out hope for Ellerbe and Wheeler is they have proven they can play at a high level. It's not impossible that they return to that level, or close to it, once they have had a full year in the current system. And Ellerbe has played hurt for a large portion of the season.

I think Ireland/Philbin knew the run defense would take a hit. They were OK with that because they thought the coverage and pass rushing from the MLB/WLB spots would improve. So far, the run defense has been worse, the coverage about the same, and the pass rushing a little better.

At least we have outs after next season on those contracts. One thing about Ireland is that he's not afraid to cut bait on players that don't work out. No matter their pedigree or cost of acquisition.

I don't understand the title of this thread. I was expecting to read about how Dansby called Ireland "disrespectful" (something that Dez Bryant and Vontae Davis would agree with).

But as far as I read, the article said nothing about those words being passed.


errr...somebody will have to quote this unless someone else besides eesti can give me the answer.

I am ok w/ Ellerbe & wheeler this year. The defense has had us in most games this season. The only game they stunk was N.O. Most of our losses can be attributed to turnovers by the qb, sacks and a lack of consistent running game. There is room for improvement and they will but I have faith in the d. We have 2 new line backers who have improved as the season has moves along.

jsm08 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think those rankings/ratings are nonsense.


Absolutely 100% agree.

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't understand the title of this thread. I
> was expecting to read about how Dansby called
> Ireland "disrespectful" (something that Dez Bryant
> and Vontae Davis would agree with).
>
> But as far as I read, the article said nothing
> about those words being passed.
>
>
> errr...somebody will have to quote this unless
> someone else besides eesti can give me the answer.


me either

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

BigNastyFish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> jsm08 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I think those rankings/ratings are nonsense.
>
>
> Absolutely 100% agree.

You're both right. Wheeler and Ellerbe have been outstanding this year and our DT's have been terrible. Ellerbe and Wheeler did not play bad vs Car, SD, TB, Pit, Indy or Atlanta or NOLA.

Ellerbe has not missed 13 tackles this year for 6th most in the NFL.

Phillip Wheeler does not have more missed tackles (11) than ANY OTHER OLB in the league.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

Why is that some dudes think slinging some BS random stats around from a service that doesn't know crap about any one players particular responsibilities one any one particular play is somehow legit???

Are you that desperate to prove you're right? Or prove you're privy to "inside info?" Or that you really know football better than the next guy?

I mean -- get a life. And stop pretending these BS rating service stats are like "real stats."
Just so you know -- only the coaches know -- AFTER they break down film and assign ratings based on the REALITY of assignments and scheme -- what a players (objective) grade is.

Actually I'm just here to talk football because I love it. I put the PFF stats on here because not everyone wants to pay for the subscription. I always enjoyed it when Dolfanmark quoted stats from PFF so I thought I would provide the info for a few fans since he no longer posts.

Get a life? really? You post on here as much as I do and usually offer your "holier than thou" opinion and pose it as fact. Talk about pot calling kettle black. Hilarious irony.

So why don't you stop pretending you know more than people who actually watch EVERY play of coaches tape. I don't have the time to do that so I appreciate that someone has taken the time to do it. Coaches don't even watch as much tape as these guys. Are all coaches former NFL greats? Hell no.

Are the stats perfect? No and they don't claim to be but they are more informed than some arbitrary QB rating that penalizes a QB for spiking the ball to stop the clock...or give them credit for a 2 yard dump-off when a RB runs for 80 yards. That's probably why 1/3 of teams use PFF.

Am I trying to pretend I am privy to inside info? Dumb question since I always quote the source. It's not like I am watching a game on TV and pretending to be an all knowing expert. That would be make me...YOU.

Some people would rather crap on the idea that someone (PFF) may have a more informed opinion to offer because then, that person would have to admit that someone may know more than they do. Such an blow to your fragile ego?

Do I know more than NFL coaches? NO and I don't pretend to know. Do I know football more than "the next guy"? Possibly, since I actually played college football for a few years. It may have only been Div III but it probably gave me a little more knowledge than "the next guy". Thanks for asking.

Unfortunately I have to wade through the dregs so I can chat with some of my open-mined phinatics.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Unfortunately I have to wade through the dregs so
> I can chat with some of my open-mined phinatics.

Wow! I guess he told us. And although he did not say it, I will also be obedient and never ever ever never say anything negative about the coaching.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/11/2013 02:08PM by ChyrenB.

Open minded must interpret as the ones that like to bitch and moan and call the players names that they don't have the balls to call to their faces. Also the same ones who don't know real stats like how while the lbs tackles have gone down that our top 6 defensive linemen alread have more tacles than the top six did all of last year. More stops have been made by the front 4 this year is partially the reason the lbs nbr are down. Not the primary but its in the equation. Funny if dude played even division 3 football he should know the importance of the defensive tackles containing the interior olinemen to the mlb in a 3-4 defense.

The categories are:

"PFF Stats"
"The hallucinagenic ramblings of a former coitus back"
or
"How Joe Philbin caused the demise of western civilization by asking Carpenter to kick a 48 yrd FG"

...........I'll take PFF Stats for $500 Alex

Its true big nasty. Other stats, compare Luke Kuechlys stats to Ellerbe's and they are pretty close. Compare Carolina's (#1 defense) to our defensive stats like forced fumbles, ints and sacks and they are not far off. What's the big difference, Carolina's offense is #1 in time of possesion. We are number 24. If our offense controlled the ball more our defense would be much better.

If one of our lbs miss a tackle most of the time someone else makes it. You cannot say that for an int or a drop passes, missed 3rd down conversion. We have lost more games because of those offensive mistakes than missed tackles.

F PFF

Wow best most productive DT, I would give Odrick a slight edge over Stark. Soliai is playing well too. Just my opinion.

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> dolphaholic Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The categories are:
> >
> > "PFF Stats"
> > "The hallucinagenic ramblings of a former
> coitus
> > back"
> > or
> > "How Joe Philbin caused the demise of western
> > civilization by asking Carpenter to kick a 48
> yrd
> > FG"
> >
> > ...........I'll take PFF Stats for $500 Alex
>
> Praise the Lord, Holic! You done seen the
> light!!!!!

Edited to add that:

Now, Holic, you know that the last thing I want to do is bore you but, given the anniversary of it all, I can private message you with ABSOLUTE PROOF that Joe Philbin was on the Grassy Knoll on November 22, 1963.

Yo Mizzou,

I can certainly dig on your insight into TOP which is always a very "profound" stat in often subtle ways. Thanks for reminding of the ways…(as it pertains to overall D rank).

I think your onus on the O is even more acute given the nature of the game today. Playing winning O also means you're intrinsically playing winning D -- at least in terms of percentages…

I think Starks is a real man. Though JO is not too far behind. I used to think Soliai was essentially the 80% factor -- but no more. He's lost explosiveness and needs to shed 25+ if he intends another season… IMO.