I mean too tell you that I loved the way this team came back, and competed for the victory. However if that last play worked, by the Steelers we would be talking about how Ross cleaned house today, and fired everyone on this inept staff. Hell that almost happened. I for one could not watch the last 3 minutes because I have seen this team fail so many times before. What a nice surprise too see them win BARELY. My question has this team turned the corner from mediocre to something of a some what viable good team?

Dang no answers yet or is the jury still out?

Yes they have. So either grow a pair and we all get this wagon going, or go pound sand.

The only way I'll believe that they've made progress would be if they win the next 3 games. They have the talent to beat the Pats, but the coaching has been lacking. Personally, I want Philbin and Sherman fired for their failure to do anything about the o-line earlier in the season, and for the complete second half collapses against NE and Carolina.

I can accept the losses to Buffalo (not really, but the Bills were playing well) and Tampa Bay (we just happened to catch the Bucs as they were improving) as these things happen. But, dominating the Pats and Panthers in the first half only to roll over and play dead on offense in the second half is one of the many reasons why Sherman MUST be fired at the end of the year. I'd fire Sherman even if Miami wins the Super Bowl! If Miami finally beats NE on Sunday and then rolls over Buffalo and the Jets, then I'd possibly give Philbin another year on the condition that he gets rid of Sherman and finds someone who knows how to make adjustments during the game, gets more deep passes to Wallace, and changes his offensive philosophy. Philbin promised Ross an explosive, dynamic offense but his system is 90% dinking and dunking.

I agree Sherman must be fired, however the point is that regardless of the poor play calling our player's are making the play's and winning the games.

to me the loss to the bills was the most inexcusable. losing at home to a team starting a practice squad QB, and with the lead and running out the clock at the end. that's the worst loss of the season IMO

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

I agree, which is why Sherman must be fired.

Have we turned the corner yet? A two game winning streak is moving in the right direction but, this team has been known to slap you in the face if you get your hopes up.

........................................

The Clown Show Continues



-

I am fully expecting a loss this Sunday.

But, as I did last Sunday, I will be coaching my son's team in yet another Sunday double header at 1 & 3 and if the past is any indication of future results, we will win.

I feel like I'm in one of those Bud Light commercials. When I don't watch we win. I might be onto something. Less stress, fewer gray hairs, less bruises on my wife....

Turned the corner? To early to say. We have only beaten two teams with a winning record if I remember correctly. THIS Sunday against a long time rival IN OUR HOUSE with our playoff hopes riding on it may go a LONG way toward convincing me. It is usually at this point we choke.

The PATS ARE BEATABLE. But, they are also a division leader with a winning record, a top tier (but aging) QB and are better coached. To me this game will show whether our players are developing that hunger we have desperately needed for so long.

Philbin and company BETTER have us ready for blitzes right off the bat AND have a plan for Brady throwing to the backs out of the backfield since Gronkowski is out. We can't have another Ricky Sproles fiasco...

gofins60 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The only way I'll believe that they've made
> progress would be if they win the next 3 games.
> They have the talent to beat the Pats, but the
> coaching has been lacking. Personally, I want
> Philbin and Sherman fired for their failure to do
> anything about the o-line earlier in the season,
> and for the complete second half collapses against
> NE and Carolina.
>
> I can accept the losses to Buffalo (not really,
> but the Bills were playing well) and Tampa Bay (we
> just happened to catch the Bucs as they were
> improving) as these things happen. But, dominating
> the Pats and Panthers in the first half only to
> roll over and play dead on offense in the second
> half is one of the many reasons why Sherman MUST
> be fired at the end of the year. I'd fire Sherman
> even if Miami wins the Super Bowl! If Miami
> finally beats NE on Sunday and then rolls over
> Buffalo and the Jets, then I'd possibly give
> Philbin another year on the condition that he gets
> rid of Sherman and finds someone who knows how to
> make adjustments during the game, gets more deep
> passes to Wallace, and changes his offensive
> philosophy. Philbin promised Ross an explosive,
> dynamic offense but his system is 90% dinking and
> dunking.


RE: You do realize that the west coast offense is built on dinking and dunking. Thats what it does. I believe the team is making progress but we have get the O-Line squared away once and for all in the off season for this team to truly blossom.

Hey it's ok I do take some comfort in acknowledging first that this team is peaking. So when we win Sunday, then hopefully you fair weather fans can jump on up in the "Epic Wagon Of Destiny".

Ken Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> RE: You do realize that the west coast offense is
> built on dinking and dunking. Thats what it does.


True, but then why go out and pay big money to Wallace (a deep threat), get rid of Bush (perfect fit for WCO) and try to make a pocket passer out of T-Hill when a scrambling QB is also key (Montana, Young, Farve, etc) although, that seems to have improved as of late. There seems to be some sort of dysfunction in coaching/management, everyone is not on the same page for some reason.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/10/2013 08:04AM by KB.

I think the Patriots deal with the devil might be over now that Gronkowski is out for the season. Who do they have that scares you offensively? The only thing that bothers me is that they clearly are a lucky bunch of bastards that get all the breaks. I don't know maybe Belicheat has made another deal with the devil after Gronkowski got hurt. He would sell his children too win sad really.

KB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ken Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > RE: You do realize that the west coast offense
> is
> > built on dinking and dunking. Thats what it
> does.
>
>
> True, but then why go out and pay big money to
> Wallace (a deep threat), get rid of Bush (perfect
> fit for WCO) and try to make a pocket passer out
> of T-Hill when a scrambling QB is also key
> (Montana, Young, Farve, etc) although, that seems
> to have improved as of late. There seems to be
> some sort of dysfunction in coaching/management,
> everyone is not on the same page for some reason.

1- Wallace opens up the offense for guys like clay, hartline and matthews. If our O-line was better earlier on, and RT was a better deep passer he'd have earned every penny he got from us and then some.

Take Wallace off this team and watch how small the windows RT has to throw become. besides, we have to pay players $120mill a year. Who cares which players get the money?

2- We should have kept Bush. In hindsight, it was a bad decision to let him walk. But letting him go had nothing to do with Wallace or any of the other FA's we brought in. We are far enough under the cap right now to sign him 3 times over. Bush was let go because they thought they had a star in Lamar Miller and Bush would have been a progress stopper for him.

3- Montana, Young, Favre, etc were all pocket passers with mobility. They all lived in the pocket and ran only as a last resort.

Our staff is trying to turn RT into that guy, just as Green Bay did with Aaron Rogers. QB's who are run first guys don't last in the NFL. They take too many hits.

The gameplan with RT seems to be to break him of the run instinct so he develops pocket presence and awareness he hasn't need until now. Once his brain is reprogrammed in that way, he will take off more often. you are seeing that now. He's scrambled plenty the last 6-8 games. As he's gotten more comfortable staying in the pocket he gets a better understanding of when is the best time to bail.

Will he ever develop into a top 5 "elite" guy? Probably not, but if he continues to improve he'll be plenty good enough to win big with.

Don't forget that they have the refs in their pocket, Finshady. Did you see how the refs gave them the winning touchdown on that overthrown ball at the end of the last game.

Responding to jsm08 comment about tht e bud light commercials. Had my 8 year old watching the game at a local resturaunt/bar that has the sunaday package(only place we can see a game here in rhode island). Jst before clay's TD my son has to piss so we go in and come out to seeign the TD my son immediatly looks up at me and says "dad...i broke the code"(just liek the guy going into the basement in the coors light commercial) Pretty funny. So anyhow he says he is going to do his part this weekend for the pats game and drink a ton of water on sunday.

As far as who scares me on their offense without Gronk. Pretty much anybody Brady is throwing to as much as i hate to say it.

Ken- The west coast offense is about dink and dunks, to get the defense to play tighter to the line of scrimmage, then using that, to hit the long ball... All of this West Coast offense is about short passes, it is but only to set up the defense for the long ball... It is not one without the other... The long ball is very important to the West coast system.... The long and short passes in the system are designed to manipulate the defense's coverage....

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

I hear you Chyren however we owe them an ass whooping. I think without Gronkowski, and some of their other banged up players they lose on Sunday even if the refs help them. You know what they say karma is a Bit..

Finshady Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I mean too tell you that I loved the way this team
> came back, and competed for the victory. However
> if that last play worked, by the Steelers we would
> be talking about how Ross cleaned house today, and
> fired everyone on this inept staff. Hell that
> almost happened. I for one could not watch the
> last 3 minutes because I have seen this team fail
> so many times before. What a nice surprise too
> see them win BARELY. My question has this team
> turned the corner from mediocre to something of a
> some what viable good team?

******************************************************

Yeah, the team did a good job coming back, but it seemed as tho they told the Steelers to just go ahead and do what you gotta do and score.

Come on, man....did any of us fans not expect that last Steelers routine for a miracle victory? Once again, where the hell were the defenders when Big Ben first threw the ball? Do you guys realize not one Steeler that had the ball was even touched?

I thought for sure the Fins were going to give the game away.

This team is still doing too many stupid things to even think about playoffs.

What these guys will probably do, if they follow their season-long pattern, is knock off the Pats then lose to the Bills and Jets.

Let's hope so.

Finshady Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I hear you Chyren however we owe them an ass
> whooping. I think without Gronkowski, and some of
> their other banged up players they lose on Sunday
> even if the refs help them. You know what they
> say karma is a Bit..

**************************************

It doesn't matter what players the Pats lose, they still find a way to win. Even with all their injuries, they still have some dangerous weapons.

Besides that, our defense still has a bad habit of crumbling during crunch time. Yeah, they have made some positive plays, but they have made way too many negative ones, both on the ground and in the air. Opposing receivers are still way too open.

I still don't trust our offense; they scare me. And I don't trust our play calling either, both offense and defense. Quite often something is working and the coaches go away from it. When pressure is needed on D, Coyle doesn't call it. Wake, Vernon and Jordan are strong pass rushers. They get shut down too often. Our middle LBers, quite often, are nowhere to be seen. I read where Wheeler graded out in the negative again.

THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> KB Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Ken Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > RE: You do realize that the west coast
> offense
> > is
> > > built on dinking and dunking. Thats what it
> > does.
> >
> >
> > True, but then why go out and pay big money to
> > Wallace (a deep threat), get rid of Bush
> (perfect
> > fit for WCO) and try to make a pocket passer
> out
> > of T-Hill when a scrambling QB is also key
> > (Montana, Young, Farve, etc) although, that
> seems
> > to have improved as of late. There seems to be
> > some sort of dysfunction in
> coaching/management,
> > everyone is not on the same page for some
> reason.
>
> 1- Wallace opens up the offense for guys like
> clay, hartline and matthews. If our O-line was
> better earlier on, and RT was a better deep passer
> he'd have earned every penny he got from us and
> then some.
>
> Take Wallace off this team and watch how small the
> windows RT has to throw become. besides, we have
> to pay players $120mill a year. Who cares which
> players get the money?
>
> 2- We should have kept Bush. In hindsight, it was
> a bad decision to let him walk. But letting him
> go had nothing to do with Wallace or any of the
> other FA's we brought in. We are far enough under
> the cap right now to sign him 3 times over. Bush
> was let go because they thought they had a star in
> Lamar Miller and Bush would have been a progress
> stopper for him.
>
> 3- Montana, Young, Favre, etc were all pocket
> passers with mobility. They all lived in the
> pocket and ran only as a last resort.
>
> Our staff is trying to turn RT into that guy, just
> as Green Bay did with Aaron Rogers. QB's who
> are run first guys don't last in the NFL. They
> take too many hits.
>
> The gameplan with RT seems to be to break him of
> the run instinct so he develops pocket presence
> and awareness he hasn't need until now. Once
> his brain is reprogrammed in that way, he will
> take off more often. you are seeing that now.
> He's scrambled plenty the last 6-8 games. As he's
> gotten more comfortable staying in the pocket he
> gets a better understanding of when is the best
> time to bail.
>
> Will he ever develop into a top 5 "elite" guy?
> Probably not, but if he continues to improve he'll
> be plenty good enough to win big with.

I agree Tannehill IS looking better but I still think it is because, after that OLine fiasco and all the sacks Tannehill was taking, SOMEBODY won the argument that I believe was going on about how the offense should be run. Tannehill isn't just getting better at the same old things he was doing. He is now taking quick three step drops and getting rid of the ball, and he even ran a read option succesfully several times against the Steelers which then opened things up for other plays because it had to be accounted for.

Sadly, I agree about the 'run first' stuff being a fools errand in the NFL and hope Tannehill doesn't get hurt. BUT, he will have to do an increasing amount of that IMO just because that is his game. He's NOT a good long ball QB, nor does he move in the pocket well, he runs well and is getting better at when to take off (out of necessity) but he still can't avoid the rush well AND STAY in the pocket. That is a MUST skill for a successful NFL QB, top 5 or not.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/10/2013 12:35PM by KB.

THE Truth Wrote:
> Will he ever develop into a top 5 "elite" guy?
> Probably not, but if he continues to improve he'll
> be plenty good enough to win big with.

I agree he'll be good enough to win with and it's unlikely he'll get to a Brees, Rodgers, Manning, Brady type level.

I've been saying for a while I think he'll be a top ten guy most of his career, like Romo, and crack the top 5 for a few seasons in his prime, like Philip Rivers a couple years ago. Thoughts?

I'm curious, what do you see as his ceiling?

phinsfan402 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> THE Truth Wrote:
> > Will he ever develop into a top 5 "elite" guy?
>
> > Probably not, but if he continues to improve
> he'll
> > be plenty good enough to win big with.
>
> I agree he'll be good enough to win with and it's
> unlikely he'll get to a Brees, Rodgers, Manning,
> Brady type level.
>
> I've been saying for a while I think he'll be a
> top ten guy most of his career, like Romo, and
> crack the top 5 for a few seasons in his prime,
> like Philip Rivers a couple years ago. Thoughts?
>
> I'm curious, what do you see as his ceiling?


That's about how I see it as well.

I think his ceiling is probably a Philip Rivers/Tony Romo type player.

He'll probably be more like Eli Manning statistically (with or without the titles).

This is where you typical homers are sucking wind…

Thill has the upside to be in the "CAT5" pretty much from here on out. And he's not remotely comparable to someone like Eli Manning, Philip Rivers or Tony Romo.

Thill is more akin to a Joe Montana -- albeit with developing pocket sensibilities and an burgeoning offensive complimentary concept.

Bottom line -- if Ryan maxes out his potential -- he's as good as any in the league.

TRUTH wrote
> That's about how I see it as well.
>
> I think his ceiling is probably a Philip
> Rivers/Tony Romo type player.
>
> He'll probably be more like Eli Manning
> statistically (with or without the titles).

Ehh, I don't know about Eli. Statistically, Eli has only had about four good seasons out of ten. I think Thill could consistently have a passer rating in the 90.0s which Eli has only done twice so far.

BNF makes an interesting point, Thill still has a chance to be a Rodgers or Brees type of player. In my mind, it's a pretty small chance but still a possibility, especially if we upgrade from Sherman down the line.