Ellerbe is playing better than Dansby did last year, so I think he should stick around. As for Wheeler, I say replace him with Dion Jordan.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/21/2013 08:32AM by montequi.

wheeler was a journeyman who we cut in training camp 2 years ago and had one decent year with OAK. Then Ireland, just a year after cutting him, gives him a huge contract and makes him the starter by cutting Burnett/Dansby. Is anyone suprised that Wheeler is playing like a mediocre/poor journeyman?

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

yea. what that berk guy said.

Ellerbe (this year) is nowhere close to where Dansby was in 2012. Dansby was the 13th ranked ILB in the league with a +6.0 rating. that's a far cry from Ellerbe's -4.2. He is terrible vs the run. That's a LB's main job.

In 2012 Ellerbe was ranked one spot below Dansby with a +4.8 rating. He was terrible in coverage.

Dansby was much better against the run and decent in coverage. His only negative grade was in pass rush or he would have been much higher.

Wheeler was the 6th ranked OLB last year but has dropped big time. Burnett was ranked 4th in 2012.

Personally I would rather have LB's that can cover and stop the run and leave the pass rush for the front 4. Enough of these missed tackles and teams running on us with no problem. That's a huge drop-off.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/21/2013 10:17AM by eesti.

how about hope they get better...........They are still young.

we seem to hope players get better a lot around here

Draft a mean hard middle linebacker that can stop the run and put the other 2 as OLB. They have speed to cover the field and let the MLB handle the inside runners.

Misi is rated higher than both and just signed an extension so we need to get rid of one at least.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

samsam3738 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> how about hope they get better...........They are
> still young.


uh, you don't pay a guy many millions as a FA and cut your starter to "hope" they get better. Ireland gets paid good $$ to sign good players, not bad ones in the hope they may someday improve

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

or maybe coyle and his system are the problem.

jsm08 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> or maybe coyle and his system are the problem.

Oh, but YOU want to blame everybody but the HEAD coach. Blame the paperboy for the bankruptcy of the newspaper.

And BTW, the defense is the best part of our team.

I think you have to give them another year... If they are still under performing, then you have to do what you have to do... We can't have that much dead money or solve all of the holes on the Oline and LB's in one year.... I like the idea of moving Jordan... We all know Jordan can cover.... Also Jelenai Jenkins could develop...

Maybe Ellerbe battling an injury is why his play has fallen off?

Either way, what to do is a good question..... not sure any of us have the right answer at this point...

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> jsm08 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > or maybe coyle and his system are the problem.
>
> Oh, but YOU want to blame everybody but the HEAD
> coach. Blame the paperboy for the bankruptcy of
> the newspaper.
>
> And BTW, the defense is the best part of our team.


Chyren, you get so defensive whenever another poster blames anyone but Philbin for any problem. IMO, they go hand in hand, Philbin hired these guys and hopefully tells them what kind of schemes and game plans he want's employed, so whne you criticize Coyle or Sherman, you are really criticizing Philbin as well.......in my eyes anyway.

ps- Unless you have better guys ready to go, why cut these guys after the season, when you are paying them anyways...That doesn't make much sense, even if you decide they aren't starters next year, and draft a guy early... Why pay them to play for another team? LB's battle nagging injuries all the time, having them on our roster makes sense either way. I am also not positive they are bust at this point anyways....

Don't forget Dansby battled health issues, a season out of shape/overweight and inconsistent play during his tenure... Don't know why we cut Burnett, stupid move IMO, he developed into a solid player last year after a shaky start... Who is to say Wheeler or Ellerbe will not be able to do the same at this point in their tenures....

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/21/2013 02:46PM by Crowder52.

Cutting them after 1 year isn't an option that makes any sense

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

No it doesn't make sense but a good manager would not have paid so much for unproven players. Especially when there were so many other glaring needs. Everyone was blown away when we made those two moves.

No we find ourselves in this situation thanks to Ireland and his lack of scouting savvy and ability to project players in another system.

So you say it doesn't make sense but that's when you have to ask yourself "what's more important?"....losing the money for a bad investment OR the success of the team. They are dragging this defense down and costing us games. The choice is obvious.

That's when Ireland's job is in jeopardy...when he starts wasting the owner's money.

Like Crowder said, you don't just outright cut them. You draft a LB high and offer legit competition. That will force change in two ways...Either the rookie beats out the vet or pushes one of them to play better, prepare better, etc.

Get one guy who can push the WLB and MLB for their job. Put the pressure on. Then you can praise the vet publicly and pursue a possible trade. Could be Ellerbe is just made for a 3-4 where he has someone next to him to make up for his shortfalls. A 3-4 team may see that.

Jordan moving to WLB is a possibility but LB'ers should be able to stop the run first of all. That is Jordans weakness at this point.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

I think Jordan should be used as a spy on newton this week.

why would anybody blame the paperboy for the newspaper industry failing? that's pretty stupid.

I think philbin hired guys he knew..guys he was comfortable with because it's his first HC job. I also think he made a mistake with those hires. I'd like him to find new coordinators.

I also don't think that warrants firing him for that mistake in his first head coaching stint.

ron rivera got a new oc this year and they're 7-3. is ron that much better of a HC this year or is it surrounding himself with a better supporting cast and having a gm that can actually draft talent?

Couldn't agree more. Too many coaches are fired before given a legitimate chance. Some deserve it but even Sparano got 4 years. Coaches are human and have to learn and adapt just as players do...

You can't expect them to be compete when the team has glaring deficiencies.

That day may come but it's too early. Let's see how the season plays out at least. He has coached 26 games.

Not everyone can win a SuperBowl in their second year like Brian Billick....but he had Ozzy buying the groceries. Mike Smith also was given lots of talent...and then John Harbaugh.

I have very few problems with Philbin.

Head Coach has to be one of the most time consuming, emotional, demanding professions in the world and there are fewer and fewer people that even want to do it. Look at all the commentators that are former HC's. Most want nothing to do with coaching any more.

Jimmy Johnson, Brian Billick, Bill Cowher, Tony Dungy, Marty Shottenheimer, Jon Gruden...the list goes on...

Took over a 6-10 team...did a complete rebuild and went 7-9, Lets see how the season ends. If he can win 9 games, he deserves another shot. Did anyone actually expect us to be a top 5 team after a year and a half with a complete makeover?

Tannehill, the very inexperienced QB is continually improving....

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

Okay, The reasons Philbin should be fired.

First of all, he's damned stubborn! When he ran a pitch back in one game on 4th and an inch and the announcers criticized him when it failed. He did it the next week in a similar situation just to prove he's in charge.

Second, he tries to adapt the players to his system instead of trying to adapt the system to the players. I refuse to believe that Sherman, having coached Tanny at TAM IS THE ONE insisting that he be a POCKET QB. To me that's Philbin.

Third, he takes reckless actions when you have to be conservative to either a) win the game b) preserve what looks like a win or c) go into overtime.

Sparano was too conservative and Philbin is too liberal. But Sparano just didn't have the talent. Philbin is MIS-using the talent he has.

Under Sparano, I asked, "Is Henne good enough?" Under Philbin, I ask, "Why in the hell is he trying to FORCE Tanny into being a pocket QB."

As for the notation, on this thread or maybe on another thread, that Tanny beat Russell Wilson, RGIII, or whoever, how does that prove that Tanny is being properly used as a pocket quarterback. All that might show is that the rest of those teams were not as good as our team LAST YEAR, remember we have neither played Seattle nor the Redskins this year.

I actually saw a lot more roll outs and QB movement in the Chargers game CB...they must have heard you.

eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Couldn't agree more. Too many coaches are fired
> before given a legitimate chance. Some deserve it
> but even Sparano got 4 years. Coaches are human
> and have to learn and adapt just as players do...
>
> You can't expect them to be compete when the team
> has glaring deficiencies.
>
> That day may come but it's too early. Let's see
> how the season plays out at least. He has coached
> 26 games.
>
> Not everyone can win a SuperBowl in their second
> year like Brian Billick....but he had Ozzy buying
> the groceries. Mike Smith also was given lots of
> talent...and then John Harbaugh.
>
> I have very few problems with Philbin.
>
> Head Coach has to be one of the most time
> consuming, emotional, demanding professions in the
> world and there are fewer and fewer people that
> even want to do it. Look at all the commentators
> that are former HC's. Most want nothing to do with
> coaching any more.
>
> Jimmy Johnson, Brian Billick, Bill Cowher, Tony
> Dungy, Marty Shottenheimer, Jon Gruden...the list
> goes on...
>
> Took over a 6-10 team...did a complete rebuild and
> went 7-9, Lets see how the season ends. If he can
> win 9 games, he deserves another shot. Did anyone
> actually expect us to be a top 5 team after a year
> and a half with a complete makeover?
>
> Tannehill, the very inexperienced QB is
> continually improving....


I would normaly agree with this eesti, but if Ireland gets fired (and he should) and Philbin fires both co-ordinators (arguably he should), whats the point of keeping Philbin? Aren't we basically starting over anyway? and what has Philbin done to warrant the free pass?

9 games is looking more impossible by the minute....

I really don't understand this notion of Philbin trying to make RT a pocket passer or that he was NOT a pocket passer at A&M....This is based on what exactly?????

He ran the ball 51 times for 76 yards as a junior and 58 times for 306 yards as a senior. Not exactly Johnny Manziel numbers.

He ran 49 times last year and is on pace for about the same this year.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

The point is that does he pass from the pocket or does he pass on the run.

BTW, your numbers of 75 yards as a junior, when he was being used more at WR, and 306 yards as a senior, when he was being used more at QB seems to contradict what you are trying to say. That is without putting Manziel into the equation, an element I don't really understand.

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The point is that does he pass from the pocket or
> does he pass on the run.

Who even does that on a consistent basis? QB's run when they get in trouble. RT did it on Sunday on several roll-outs but didn't do much good. I would like to see him take off and run more but only as an escape mechanism. Not as an offensive philosophy.

>
> BTW, your numbers of 75 yards as a junior, when he
> was being used more at WR, and 306 yards as a
> senior, when he was being used more at QB seems to
> contradict what you are trying to say.

Although he played WR for the first 6 games of his junior year, he only caught 11 passes...He played QB for the last 7 so he actually wasn't "used more at WR".

I don't see the contradiction. My point is, he was never a running QB and disagreeing with your theory that the coaches are trying to change who is was....The system is the same and he never did run that much.

That is
> without putting Manziel into the equation, an
> element I don't really understand.

Because Manziel IS a running QB...in a different system....under a different coach.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Free Agent Failure?
>
> Dannell Ellerbe (-3.5) has not been the every-down
> middle linebacker Jeff Ireland hoped for when he
> signed him to a multimillion dollar contract. Run
> defense has been the biggest problem and that was
> no different against the Panthers (-3.1). Despite
> making six tackles, Ellerbe failed to register a
> single stop, consistently going backwards when
> guards got to him at the second level and only
> bringing runners down when they were far
> downfield. Ryan Kalil especially had his way with
> him at the second level generating consistent
> movement whether pulling or heading straight from
> his centre spot. The struggles are especially
> concerning considering the quality of defensive
> tackle play in front of him with Jared Odrick and
> Randy Starks. One of the most disappointing plays
> came on third and one with 1:55 to play in the
> fourth quarter when Newton threw him a stiff arm
> and picked up about seven yards after contact as
> all Ellerbe could do was ride him out of bounds.
> The former Raven also graded negatively in
> coverage (-0.3) as he lacked general zone
> awareness and as a pass rusher (-0.2, no pressure
> on two rushes).
>
> This guy is terrible! 5th year player isn't
> getting any better. Does not fit the system.


I saw this too. This is very disheartening. Although the entire defense has been wildy inconsistent with tackling and Ellerbe has been playing hurt all year. Ellerbe and Reshad Jones are easily the biggest disappointments of the season for me.