Lets assume, which isn't a stretch, that both Incognito and Martin are head cases and or bad for the team.. Who's fault is it. the GM for putting these guys on the roster. Or the coach for failing to control and lead them... The fact that we don't have any god veteran leadership like Bush, Long and Fasano, is really showing IMO.. Veteran leadership, either didn't seem important to Ireland or greatly misjudged if the likes of Incognito was to be our veteran leadership for the team....

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/05/2013 04:35AM by Crowder52.

The funny thing about that, Incognito was part of the leadership council....voted on by his teammates

Cant answer your question either, how about 50/50 split on blame for Ireland and Philbin?

Martin is rumored to have went to Philbin last year. If true and he didn't do anything he could be liable. this is a employer bound by employment laws against harassment ,intimidation etc. Incognito didn't know when to shut up & apologize

Still don't get how Martin and others could tell them go take a hike, I'm not paying your bills, and if you have any issues lets talk to management & HR

You sound right jlyell, that it is up to the players to report it to management but, again we still don't know the facts, assuming it was not just a series of recent fast moving events as opposed to being a long festering feud, and that he did go to Philbin last year, the fault clearly lies with Philbin for letting such a condition exists .............and even more so given how poorly we are performing as a team and triple even more so given that both players are on the offensive line which has been pegged as the worst performing part of our team.

There was a poll on here that asked where the fault for the team's failures lies, was it removed, JC? It was within the last month yet I don't see it anymore.

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There was a poll on here that asked where the
> fault for the team's failures lies, was it
> removed, JC? It was within the last month yet I
> don't see it anymore.


I didn't remove anything like that I don't think.

Its Martins fault for not standing up for himself
Incognitos for being just plain stupid
Leadership counsel for not policing themselves
Locker room for not standing up for their teammate
Support staff for not informing Philbin
Philbin for not finding out or acting on it if he did find out
The rest of management for not stopping it

Philbin has said he was never informed of any misconduct until Martin turned over the evidence to the NFLPA.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

So, Philbin would rather appear clueless than ineffective?

Hooligan2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So, Philbin would rather appear clueless than
> ineffective?


Philbin is responsible for what happens on his watch and if it costs him his job, so be it.

But as of this moment we know a few things:

1) The players in the locker room (black and white) are lining up behind Incognito so far.

2) The "racist" stuff that has come to light is 6 months old and it was delivered in private communications via text and voice mail.

3) Martin's actions in leaving the team the way he did over a prank suggest he wasn't exactly going to management with is issues with Incognito.

With all of that...just how are the staff supposed to know what's going on?

Do you have kids? Do you remember when you were a kid?

Do you know everything that happens in you kids life? Did you parents know when you lost your virginity or got high for the first time?

There is no way for management to know the extent of this stuff unless it happens in front of them or a player comes to them with an issue.

If it comes to light that they ignored Martin's complaints or that they allowed this to happen on a regular basis then hammer away...they will deserve it.

But until then, you are blaming them for not being psychic, which seems silly.

The key word you missed was "appear"
Philbin and Ireland will be spared or fired based on appearances not what we or other football minded people think or, think we know.

It's not like you (management) are responsible for the way people behave at a Miami night club. Has anyone heard the latest drunken rant on audio? Possibly from the night Incog punched a bouncer. The "n" word is not said with malice but it shows an out of control person who thinks he can do whatever he wants...including the use of the word.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

Hooligan2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The key word you missed was "appear"
> Philbin and Ireland will be spared or fired based
> on appearances not what we or other football
> minded people think or, think we know.


If that were true then they'd have been fired already.

They will be fired for this situation if the nfl investigation turns up evidence that they ignored what was happening or if they ignored Martin's pleas for help.

Hooligan2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So, Philbin would rather appear clueless than
> ineffective?

He should go into politics

Who's to blame? Plenty to go around. As a fan, I blame the Owner, GM, and coaching staff...Management 101: you just can't ignore things that divide and destroy your 'team' whether it's in the NFL or a McDonald's.

In the bigger picture, MOST of these guys have been handled with kid gloves since they were very very young because of their athletic ability and the future riches/prestige it promised...Big time high school, college and certainly professional sports all allow talented athletes to get by with BS that would land others out on the street or even in jail.

Even in the best of situations how easy it is for a young man to start feeling he's a little better than others and that 'rules' don't really apply to him. Worst case scenario, You take a guy who gets treated like that and then factor in poor family situations and little guidance and you get a recipe for...well...Arron Hernandez for example.

In the end they are all responsible for their own actions, but SOMEONE has to HOLD them responsible.

Sad time to be a Dolphin fan.

If this team wins 9/10 games and makes the playoffs, Philbin should get coach of the year with all of these distractions

........wait for it

.........wait for it

..........that loud explosion that just rocked Southern California was Chyren blowing his top

Doesn't matter. Andy Reid is a lock for CotY right now.

The cops said Incognito didn't punch anybody. They have no reason to lie, and most cops don't have any hesitation arresting a pro athlete for assault if it's warranted. Bringing up this incident seems to weaken the case against Incognito, not strengthen it.

Rick

Does it really matter? The media has made allegations, the public believes them as fact whether they are true or not, so "where there is smoke, there is fire" -it's a done deal. That's the way the lawyers have "justice" going in this country.


What do you call a thousand lawyers at the bottom of the ocean?

A good start.

Rick

dolphaholic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If this team wins 9/10 games and makes the
> playoffs, Philbin should get coach of the year
> with all of these distractions
>
> ........wait for it
>
> .........wait for it
>
> ..........that loud explosion that just rocked
> Southern California was Chyren blowing his top

LOL.

If a guy knows first hand that the coaches condone these hazing pranks, etc. and do nothing about it, no player is going to go to him with an issue about said issue.

A very possible situation is someone like Jim Turner tells one of the appointed leaders (at the request of HC)...."toughen this kid up". Leader is a complete idiot and goes overboard....yada yada yada

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

Correct, eesti.