Coaching and O-line: Everyone on the o-line has played poorly at times this season. Even the RBs and TEs have been missing blocks. I don't believe that the line was this bad last year; it wasn't great, but it was nothing like what we've seen over the past 6 games (plus preseason). I find it hard to believe that Incognito, Pouncey, and Jerry have all decided that this would be their worst year in a Dolphin uniform.

What happened? They were decent under Sparano, and then regressed last season because Philbin and Sherman started installing their new offense and blocking schemes. I'm sure that with a year under their belt and added WRs and TEs, Philbin and Sherman are now closer to installing and running their full offense. When they try running the offense the way they want it to run, the blocking is terrible. When they get away from their "system" of quick reads and short passes and concentrate on running the ball (which evidently they don't like to do), the blocking gets a little better, and as a result the running and passing games improve. That is, until the coaches abandon the run again. It's easy to see that these o-linemen (or at least most of them) thrive in a different scheme than what Philbin and Sherman want to run. The job of the coaching staff is to gameplan to take advantage of the strengths and minimize the weaknesses of the players that are on their roster, and put the players in the best position to be successful. However, this coaching staff stubbornly refuses to change their schemes to better fit their players, and in failing to do so they're actually giving the advantage to the opponent's defense. This is why I don't like the coaching staff and the offense that they want to run. BTW, even the defense has regressed from last season!

Jeff Ireland: First, the good... Ireland is pretty good at managing the salary cap (unless that's all on Dawn Aponte). However, IMO someone else should be doing the talent evaluating, Free Agent signing, and drafting. Like many other GMs, Ireland does on occasion bring in or draft some good players, but he appears to be a bit below average in that category. The problem is that he seems to be too focused on "perceived value" and "bang for the buck" of a FA or draft pick. Now, this is all well and good to be looking for a bargain, but he gets too carried away with this process. There comes a time when you really need to add on-the-field talent to your team to improve. Signing Wallace for $60 Million is an example of this. Examples of his "bargain-basement shopping" would be Louis, Clabo, and Watkins on o-line, and let's not forget all of the WRs that came and went last season.

In the draft, Ireland tries to be a shrewd manipulator, often trading out of the middle of one round only to trade back up to the bottom of that round. While this may work for a team who needs a few extra picks in the late rounds to add 2nd and 3rd stringers, it does nothing for a team that really needs playmakers who can contribute on the field quickly. I remember reading that in the 2013 draft Ireland had one of the highest scores if you go by points assigned to picks. I'll bet he felt thrilled to come out of the draft looking smart.

But, how did he really do? O-line was a concern heading into the draft, and he only picked up Dallas Thomas who is nothing more than a project. (In Ireland's defense, he was probably told by the coaching staff that they could work with the linemen already on the roster.) He traded up for Jordan, who was injured and really needs to get bigger/stronger. Jordan isn't a normal "project" player, but will eventually contribute... the key word is "eventually", not RIGHT NOW which should be expected when you trade up to the #3 spot. Taylor and Davis also had issues, and are for the "future". With the exception of Sturgis, Ireland did nothing in the draft for RIGHT NOW, which is especially important now that Brady and the Pats are on a downslide. This is the season to overtake them, but it would have been easier with high draft picks that could actually get on the field.

Another criticism I have of Ireland is that he seems to favor picking "potential" talent at a later spot than going after "proven" talent at an earlier pick. This is what you should do when you're adding back-ups who hopefully will become eventual starters. When your team needs quality players because your starters aren't very good, then you need to look for the best at their position in order to rebuild your team. He worries too much about "value" and not enough about on-the-field talent. Martin was perceived to be a good pick because of where he went, so Ireland took him. But, wasn't he one of the weakest linemen? Not very smart. Ireland spends too much effort on finding acorns at a great bargain, and not enough effort on actually bringing in top talent.

Nice evaluation. I agree with your points, particularly the idea of looking for "potential" talent in later rounds. I remember how the first few drafts he was here, we tended to draft 2 players at the same position and, for some reason, the one drafted later appeared (at least at first) to be better (which was weird). For example:

Patrick Turner (3rd round)/Brian Hartline (4th round)
Shawn Murphy (4th round)/Donald Thomas (6th round)
Vontae Davis (1st round)/Sean Smith (2nd round)

On the other hand, check his 2010 draft. All these guys have started this year:
Odrick, Misi, Jerry, Jones, Carroll. Spitler is also still with the team.

In my opinion, Ireland has hamstrung this organization with dubious free agency signings and underwhelming drafts. With the exception of Jake Long, no player drafted by the Dolphins has made a pro bowl since Paul Soliai (who was drafted by Cameron/Mueller in 2007). He's had some decent picks (Hartline, Clay, Reshad Jones are examples of this). But overall, he's been mediocre. The final nail in his coffin is his bewildering failure to do anything to improve the glaring weakness that we all knew was staring us in the face this year. I'm amazed that the coaches must think that neither Yeatman or Garner would be an improvement over Clabo who's playing like he wants to get Tannehill killed. That we don't have anyone better than Clabo to put at right tackle is cause to fire Ireland in and of itself. Let's put this into proper perspective. Clabo has given up 8 sacks in 6 games. That would put him on pace to give up slightly over 21 sacks for the season-- all by himself. And the kicker is that we don't have anyone on the roster that's better? Really? Ireland is lucky I'm not the owner of the team. I would've fired the same way Pat Haden got rid of Lane Kiffen (out in the parking lot after the Buffalo game).

And management always worries about players not playing after an extension? Looks like Ireland may have been extended prematurely!

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

My memory may be a little foggy, but prior to the draft, wasn't the majority of this board up in arms about Ireland even thinking of drafting another offensive lineman with their first pick? It was my feeling that everyone was tired of OL being picked first; playmakers were needed.

The top two OL were picked, as was expected, in the last draft. Miami traded up to 3 and picked Jordan. I can't remember the OLmen taken after Miami's pick and where they are presently playing, but does anyone know how these guys are doing?

captkoi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My memory may be a little foggy, but prior to the
> draft, wasn't the majority of this board up in
> arms about Ireland even thinking of drafting
> another offensive lineman with their first pick?

That's the way I remember it. I felt that we had Pouncey and Martin but still thought we needed to get more but when Dion Jordan came out, I liked it. Just regret he hasn't seemed to have fully healed yet and when he got a little better, then Wake went out.

I'm not 100% against Ireland because it's impossible to know how much input Philbin and Sherman had in the Draft and Free Agency. I can say that I don't like Philbin and Sherman's offense, a lot of the playcalling, and their poor use of personnel. In fact, the once decent defense has been neutered a bit, and that could be due to Coyle's schemes and playcalls.

If I was the one making the decisions, Philbin, Sherman, and Coyle would be fired. I'd look for someone who puts a priority on winning by taking advantage of the players' strengths even if it means changing their "system". This coaching staff seems to want strict adherance to the system. The o-line is a great example: these guys were decent before, but just can't get the job done consistently in this new system. The staff has watched this line underperform for 5 preseason games and 6 regular season games. They haven't done a thing to REALLY fix it, they just keep doing what they're doing and hoping that it will get better. If what you're doing isn't working, then TRY SOMETHING DIFFERENT! On defense, how many times have they given up big plays on 3rd and forever? Coyle is being out-coached constantly. Ross must be furious; these guys are so stubborn that they refuse to admit that what they're doing is not getting the job done.

I think it's almost a certainty that all these guys are gone if things don't turn around before the end of the season. Marino might be part of the equation but, If we are to land a marquee coach we're going to have to let him pick his own guy to take Ireland's job. If Cowher is indeed looking to get back into coaching, he might be the one to go after, not with a highly publicized cross country caravan but, with discrete feelers to his agent.
Cowher and Marino are already working well together. Both have expressed an interest in actively returning to football.
Ross needs someone like Dan to be the face of the Dolphins and Cowher is a motivator and proven winner.
Filling the stadium would be a given.

........................................

The Clown Show Continues



-

Hooligan2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think it's almost a certainty that all these
> guys are gone if things don't turn around before
> the end of the season. Marino might be part of the
> equation but, If we are to land a marquee coach
> we're going to have to let him pick his own guy to
> take Ireland's job. If Cowher is indeed looking to
> get back into coaching, he might be the one to go
> after, not with a highly publicized cross country
> caravan but, with discrete feelers to his agent.
> Cowher and Marino are already working well
> together. Both have expressed an interest in
> actively returning to football.
> Ross needs someone like Dan to be the face of the
> Dolphins and Cowher is a motivator and proven
> winner.
> Filling the stadium would be a given.


You do realize that no coach in NFL history has won a Super Bowl with one franchise and left to win another Super Bowl with a second franchise...right?

Do you think that somewhere it's chiseled in stone that it could never happen?
Parcel came very close.

montequi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>

> On the other hand, check his 2010 draft. All
> these guys have started this year:
> Odrick, Misi, Jerry, Jones, Carroll. Spitler is
> also still with the team.


to me this is the draft that proves the OP's point. We traded from 12 to the way end of the 1st and could've had Dez Bryant, Dimitrous Thomas, or Earl Thomas (not hindsight, these were deemed great players at need positions for us many wanted us to take) and instead got Odrick and Misi, both nice players but not different makers like we could've had and still need to this day at those spots

John Jerry is terrible and we took him over Jimmy Graham who we wanted to wait till the 4th to get due to "value" issues. Carrol and Spitler do not make this team if it had any true depth

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

Hooligan2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Do you think that somewhere it's chiseled in stone
> that it could never happen?
> Parcel came very close.


I'm not interested in "close."

I am,
I'd settle for "close" right now.
You got to GET to the SB before you can win the SB.
You got to GET to the playoffs before you can get to the SB.
So, just getting to the playoffs should look pretty good to a Dolphins fan right about now.
Unfortunately, Philbin just doesn't have the motivational skills to make it happen.

Hooligan2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am,
> I'd settle for "close" right now.
> You got to GET to the SB before you can win the
> SB.
> You got to GET to the playoffs before you can get
> to the SB.
> So, just getting to the playoffs should look
> pretty good to a Dolphins fan right about now.
> Unfortunately, Philbin just doesn't have the
> motivational skills to make it happen.


I'd rather look for the next Don Shula, or Mike Tomlin, or Bill Belechick than rely on a guy who has spent the last 7+ years sitting in a studio working 1 or 2 days a week and who had a reputation for losing at home in the playoffs before he landed in the studio.


Cowher is a solid coach who isn't hungry anymore.

He's another Parcells.

Thanks, but no thanks. I'm not relying on a guy like that to break the trend of ZERO head coaches winning a Super Bowl with two teams.

There have only been 50 Super Bowls and there are 32 teams.
Several teams have never won a SB, that's a trend. Doesn't mean they never can.
Several teams have never been to a SB, that's a trend too.
It's silly to say that they can't make it there.
A couple of coaches have been to SBs with different teams. It's just a matter of time.
No QB has ever won the SB with two different teams. That may change this season.
Finding the next Shula or Walsh is fine and dandy. Winning the powerball would be great too.
It seems we tried a string of rookie head coaches. I'm sure all of them have been great football minds but, results have been dismal.
Unfortunately a coach's tenure is measured in years, a long time before you can fire him and try something else and I'm getting old.
We'll see how it plays out this season but, if we finish no better than last year who could blame Ross for looking in another direction, especially after spending a hundred million thinking he was buying the Superbowl.
If it comes to a choice between an experienced, proven HC versus another three years experiment with a rookie, I would choose someone like Cowher or Chuckie.
When you think about it, working in a studio for 7 years is not a bad thing. If anything, it gives you a different perspective. You see the big picture, the whole league and not just your own team. You see what works and what doesn't. More importantly, you get to identify up and coming coaching talent and can move beyond just hiring old buddies.

Hooligan2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There have only been 50 Super Bowls and there are
> 32 teams.
> Several teams have never won a SB, that's a trend.
> Doesn't mean they never can.
> Several teams have never been to a SB, that's a
> trend too.
> It's silly to say that they can't make it there.



Nobody is talking in absolutes. I never said it was impossible or that it could never happen. All I said is that its never been done before despite some pretty darn good coaches giving it a shot. And that there is probably a reason for that.

Coaching is a 24 hour a day, 7 day a week job. You have to be very hungry and very committed to get to the top of that profession. Cowher has hardly been displaying that hunger sitting on his ass in a studio the last 7 years.







> A couple of coaches have been to SBs with
> different teams. It's just a matter of time.
> No QB has ever won the SB with two different
> teams. That may change this season.
> Finding the next Shula or Walsh is fine and dandy.
> Winning the powerball would be great too.


Check that...I'd rather win Powerball.


> It seems we tried a string of rookie head coaches.
> I'm sure all of them have been great football
> minds but, results have been dismal.
> Unfortunately a coach's tenure is measured in
> years, a long time before you can fire him and try
> something else and I'm getting old.


So is Cowher.




> We'll see how it plays out this season but, if we
> finish no better than last year who could blame
> Ross for looking in another direction, especially
> after spending a hundred million thinking he was
> buying the Superbowl.


> If it comes to a choice between an experienced,
> proven HC versus another three years experiment
> with a rookie, I would choose someone like Cowher
> or Chuckie.


I wouldn't blame him for that. I just don't think either of those guys is the answer.

You need a HC who is HUNGRY. Who is driven to succeed and who will drag the team with him in the process.

Nobody presently employed by ESPN, CBS, NBC or FOX fills that bill.



> When you think about it, working in a studio for 7
> years is not a bad thing. If anything, it gives
> you a different perspective. You see the big
> picture, the whole league and not just your own
> team. You see what works and what doesn't. More
> importantly, you get to identify up and coming
> coaching talent and can move beyond just hiring
> old buddies.


Anything is possible I suppose, even if some things are far more improbable than others.

are we really talking about our next coach 1 year and 6 games into hiring our last? hoo boy

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> are we really talking about our next coach 1 year
> and 6 games into hiring our last? hoo boy


I sure hope so! The way I see it, Miami's previous "system" would have been more successful with upgraded talent at the playmaker positions, and better playcalling and game management. Philbin comes in with a new system and gets additional talent (like Grimes, Gibson, Tannehill, Wallace), yet in his second year the play of the team is regressing. Guys like Incognito, Pouncey, and to an extent Jerry could block before, but now they struggle. The only reason for this has to be the system itself. Yes, Miami still needs to upgrade a lot of positions, but for the most part there is enough talent to win games, but Philbin and his system just aren't working out with this team.

Another coaching change would be excedingly stupid...teams that change coaches all of the time are ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS...bad!

We aren't a bad team, we are just going through growing pains.

Ken Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Another coaching change would be excedingly
> stupid...teams that change coaches all of the time
> are ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS...bad!
>
> We aren't a bad team, we are just going through
> growing pains.


I agree completely Ken.

Ken Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Another coaching change would be excedingly
> stupid...teams that change coaches all of the time
> are ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS...bad!
>
> We aren't a bad team, we are just going through
> growing pains.


When you make bad decisions, both in personnel use and playcalling, that's not growing pains. Teams that change coaches are always bad? Well, I guess we should not have hired Don Shula away from the Colts and fired our first coach (you said ALWAYS).

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> montequi Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
>
> > On the other hand, check his 2010 draft. All
> > these guys have started this year:
> > Odrick, Misi, Jerry, Jones, Carroll. Spitler
> is
> > also still with the team.
>
>
> to me this is the draft that proves the OP's
> point. We traded from 12 to the way end of the 1st
> and could've had Dez Bryant, Dimitrous Thomas, or
> Earl Thomas (not hindsight, these were deemed
> great players at need positions for us many wanted
> us to take) and instead got Odrick and Misi, both
> nice players but not different makers like we
> could've had and still need to this day at those
> spots
>
> John Jerry is terrible and we took him over Jimmy
> Graham who we wanted to wait till the 4th to get
> due to "value" issues. Carrol and Spitler do not
> make this team if it had any true depth

*******************************************

This year, Odrick has made a major impact on this defense. The last few years, his name is the one I hear the most.

BTW, I will ask this again....where the hell is Wake?

THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hooligan2 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I am,
> > I'd settle for "close" right now.
> > You got to GET to the SB before you can win the
> > SB.
> > You got to GET to the playoffs before you can
> get
> > to the SB.
> > So, just getting to the playoffs should look
> > pretty good to a Dolphins fan right about now.
> > Unfortunately, Philbin just doesn't have the
> > motivational skills to make it happen.
>
>
> I'd rather look for the next Don Shula, or Mike
> Tomlin, or Bill Belechick than rely on a guy who
> has spent the last 7+ years sitting in a studio
> working 1 or 2 days a week and who had a
> reputation for losing at home in the playoffs
> before he landed in the studio.
>
>
> Cowher is a solid coach who isn't hungry anymore.
>
> He's another Parcells.
>
> Thanks, but no thanks. I'm not relying on a guy
> like that to break the trend of ZERO head coaches
> winning a Super Bowl with two teams.

*******************************************

Jon Gruden is another one: no fire to return to coaching.

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> are we really talking about our next coach 1 year
> and 6 games into hiring our last? hoo boy

*****************************************************

It's frustration coming out, berk.

I highly doubt any of the folks calling for Philbin's ouster truly believes that now is the time for that. Who could take over that would be worth a damn? Sure can't come from inside the Miami organization, as those guys are the ones I would fire, if anyone. My aim would be to dump Sherman and get a younger coordinator in who can adapt to today's game and can adjust on the fly, along with putting in some "can't miss" plays for certain situations.

Even if Philbin was fired after the season, who is really out there that Ross wouldn't be taking a chance on? There are no truly established HC candidates out there, and if there are, there will be about 6 other teams going after them.

Be extremely difficult to let the head man go.

Cap, Ross doesn't see the connection between putting a winning product on the field and the value of his investment going up-Translation: Philbin is safe.

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cap, Ross doesn't see the connection between
> putting a winning product on the field and the
> value of his investment going up-Translation:
> Philbin is safe.

********************************

Which is why I asked in another post whether or not Ross would even be back?

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> THE Truth Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Ken Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Another coaching change would be excedingly
> > > stupid...teams that change coaches all of the
> > time
> > > are ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS...bad!
> > >
> > > We aren't a bad team, we are just going
> through
> > > growing pains.
> >
> >
> > I agree completely Ken.
>
> RESPONSE: Old saying "If you keep doing what
> you've always done, you will always get the
> results that you have always gotten."
>
> Tell me that Philbin is not the problem and I
> disagree but I respect you.
>
> But tell me that EVEN IF Philbin IS the problem,
> we should not get rid of him and what you are
> saying is that "even if the coach is BAD, always,
> always, always, stick with him." To me that makes
> no sense.

************************************

What is the definition of BAD?

I don't think Philbin is a BAD coach, but I do feel he is a very stubborn coach, and being stubborn leads to not making adjustments or putting your talented players in positions where they can make plays.

Too many coaches get fired before really getting a solid shot at doing what they want with their team. Belichick is a perfect example. It took him a while before he got things going and now is considered a shoo-in for the HOF.

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ken Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Another coaching change would be excedingly
> > stupid...teams that change coaches all of the
> time
> > are ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS...bad!
> >
> > We aren't a bad team, we are just going through
> > growing pains.
>
>
> When you make bad decisions, both in personnel use
> and playcalling, that's not growing pains. Teams
> that change coaches are always bad? Well, I guess
> we should not have hired Don Shula away from the
> Colts and fired our first coach (you said ALWAYS).


RE: Are they bad decisions or not...just because some of them have not worked, or bore fruit yet dosen't mean they were bad, and yes I realize bad decisions do happen. There are too many variables to really say without all of the facts, which we don't have. And you forgot, or simply didn't read, that I said teams that change coaches "all of the time" NOT "teams that change coaches."

We fit the "all of the time" part because we have had Shula, Johnson, Wanny, Bates, Sabin, Cameron, Sparano, Bowles, and Philbin fill the H/C position since 1995. Thats an average of a new H/C every two seasons. You can't win like that because the system gets changed, and it never gets in place completely, the front office and the coaches have no continuity, the players never get comfortable, and the roster never really fits the system/scheme.

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> THE Truth Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Ken Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Another coaching change would be excedingly
> > > stupid...teams that change coaches all of the
> > time
> > > are ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS...bad!
> > >
> > > We aren't a bad team, we are just going
> through
> > > growing pains.
> >
> >
> > I agree completely Ken.
>
> RESPONSE: Old saying "If you keep doing what
> you've always done, you will always get the
> results that you have always gotten."
>
> Tell me that Philbin is not the problem and I
> disagree but I respect you.
>
> But tell me that EVEN IF Philbin IS the problem,
> we should not get rid of him and what you are
> saying is that "even if the coach is BAD, always,
> always, always, stick with him." To me that makes
> no sense.


RE: Not what I said at all, read my other post above. Of course you don't stick with a bad coach just for the sake of sticking with him...but one, two, three, or even four seasons in alot of cases isn't enough time to know for sure. Unless the team is never competitive over multiple seasons. Because there are entirely too many variables.

We have been, and continue to be competitive.