I dont think its anything to worry about.

He was at EVERY OTHER VOLUNTARY workout.

Either way, he needs a new deal.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

we got the cap space for sure

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

Tough call on this one, I see both sides of it... Reshad had a great year last year, but that is about it... It is not like Jones has been playing at this level for 3 years. SO why not show you are on the path again this year, and then do a deal before the season is over... SImilar to how Ireland handled the Cam Wake negotiations pushing it to the end of his existing deal..

From Reshad Jones perspective, we just paid Ellerbe and Wheeler both pretty good money and neither of them have had much more then one good season. We paid them mightily for one year of solid production so to speak. SO that argument doesnt hold up to Jones and his agent...

To Jones I am sure it seems we pay outside players more then we take care of our own, and that is reality and a problem for Ireland... We threw most of our money this year at players from other teams.. not players who accomplish in Aqua and Orange... It will create issues with guys like Starks and Jones,etc who want long term new deals... We let Bush walk, Fasano walk, Jake Long walk, trade Bess, etc... To expect their not to be some of this backlash is naive...

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

I'm cool with players using whatever leverage they have in negotiations.

If they want to skip voluntary OTA's to make a point I can live with it.

If they start skipping mandatory stuff then its a problem.

THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm cool with players using whatever leverage they
> have in negotiations.
>
> If they want to skip voluntary OTA's to make a
> point I can live with it.
>
> If they start skipping mandatory stuff then its a
> problem.


I agree, Reshad Jones's agent said he didnt want a new deal immediately, but wanted to open up the dialogue to begin the process, something it seems Ireland has been unwilling to do at this point and why Jones didnt show up...

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I agree, Reshad Jones's agent said he didnt want a
> new deal immediately, but wanted to open up the
> dialogue to begin the process, something it seems
> Ireland has been unwilling to do at this point and
> why Jones didnt show up...


Makes sense for them to want to strike while the iron is hot.

But frankly, if Ireland has been wasting any of his time negotiating with his own players since the season ended he'd have been making a mistake.

It all depends on how you look at it, I suppose. There are views, that you should take care of your own first, then add to the roster.. But I also agree that Jones is still a year out there was no need to focus on resigning him this offseason with all of the craziness that has been going on in with the FO and new additions...

I honestly dont think it benefits Jones in the negotiations to sit out of voluntary OTAs.. Unless it is for 1 day. Make your statement, then do what is best for your team.. That will go much farther in your position IMO.
When you sit out for all voluntary, I think it is counter productive in negotiations, because the GM wants to make an example that this type of behavior is not to be rewarded.. If he were to reward guys for this behavior, it would just encourage more of it, something no GM wants...
Sitting out one day to bring the story to the forefront and then returning the next day, I can understand as a smart position to take.. Because you don't undermine the guys to which you are trying to have a positive dialogue. It shows you are reasonable and don't want to detract from the team's well being and GM's authority for personal reasons..

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/20/2013 02:24PM by Crowder52.

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It all depends on how you look at, I suppose.
> There are views, that you should take care of your
> own first, then add to the roster.. But I also
> agree that Jones is still a year out there was no
> need to focus on resigning him this offseason with
> all of the craziness that has been going on in
> with the FO and new additions...



I can't think of any teams that were worried about extending contracts for players under contract already, unless it was to create cap space for another move.

Ireland would have been wasting his time negotiating with Jones before now.

There were other areas that were far more important: Signing our own FA's, identifying and signing other teams FA's, and scouting/prepping for the draft.




>
> I honestly dont think it benefits Jones in the
> negotiations to sit out of voluntary OTAs.. Unless
> it is for 1 day. Make your statement then do what
> is best for your team.. That will go much farther
> in your position IMO.
> When you sit out for all voluntary, I think it is
> counter productive in negotiations, because the GM
> wants to make an example that this type of
> behavior is not to be rewarded.. If he were to
> reward guys for this behavior it would just
> encourage more of it, something no GM wants...
> Sitting out one day to bring the story to the
> forefront and then returning the next day, I can
> understand as smart position to take.. Because you
> don't undermine the guys to which you are trying
> to have a positive dialogue. It shows you are
> reasonable and dont want to detract from the team
> well being and GM's authority for personal
> reasons..


I agree. if you miss too much of the team workouts, its only fair for the staff and front office to question your commitment to the team and whether or not you fit into their long term plans.


Jones would be smart to not skip all the voluntary workouts.

Just to name a few, Pouncey has 2 years left on his deal, Jones has one year, Keller is on a 1 year deal. Tannehill has 3 years. Paul Solia is on last year of deal. Starks is franchised on a 1 year deal. If Tannehill thrives this year as people expect, you are gonna have to pay him early.... Pouncey could easily demand for new contract negotiations next off season.. If keller lives up to his prior form he is gonna want to get paid.. You still have Starks on a one year deal and Solia. Reshad Jones agent see this, and knows there is only so much money to go around, with how much cash we have at the WR position.. While we are in decent cap space, it is going to get much more difficult in the next year or 2.
Ireland has some juggling to do. And rewarding Jones or Starks for holding out in OTA's I dont think helps him.. I hope he has the cap figured out, because we take a 17 million dollar hit next year on Wallace... I need to take a better look at our future cap space...

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/20/2013 02:47PM by Crowder52.

I think it can be smart to negotiate a year early for the team in some cases.. Had we resigned Hartline last season which he wanted, we probably would have gotten him cheaper.. If the Ravens didnt wait until this year to resign Flacco, they probably get him for half to three quarters the money it cost them this year, which cash strapped their cap this year... If Reshad Jones lights it up this year again, he will surely want more money then you could probably get him for today... I definitely think there is value in working out deals early in some situations... But it is also a risk and can set a bad precedent.. Tough call to make...

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Pouncey has 2 years left on his deal, Jones has
> one year, Keller is on a 1 year deal. Tannehill
> has 3 years. Paul Solia is on last year of deal.
> Starks is franchised on a 1 year deal. If
> Tannehill thrives this year as people expect, you
> are gonna have to pay him early.... Pouncey could
> easily demand for new contract negotiations next
> off season.. If keller lives up to his prior form
> he is gonna want to get paid.. You still have
> Starks on a one year deal and Solia. Reshad Jones
> agent see this, and knows there is only so much
> money to go around, with how much cash we have at
> the WR position.. While we are in decent cap
> space, it is going to get much more difficult in
> the next year or 2.
> Ireland has some juggling to do. And rewarding
> Jones or Starks for holding out in OTA's I dont
> think helps him.. I hope he has the cap figured
> out, because we take a 17 million dollar hit next
> year on Wallace... I need to take a better look at
> our future cap space...

Any player can holdout at anytime. very few do. Why? Because they have no leverage. Not only does the new CBA allow teams to fine players $30k a day for holding out but the new CBA is a partnership between the NFLPA and the Owners. The economics they have set up for that partnership rely heavily on ownership being able to manage their cap by knowing what their expenses will be for the first 4 or 5 years a player is in the league.

No owner is going to want to have to explain at the owners meeting why he caved to a hold out and messed up that dynamic. Can stars get extensions quietly before their rookie deal is over??? Sure. But That's really only going to happen for QB's and the best of the best at other positions. Of course, the deal is going to have to work for both sides and it won't get done if a team feels like it has a gun to its head.

I'm not worried about holdouts with this team. Anyone who puts $$ before the team and honoring his current deal is going to be out of here so fast it makes his head spin. No way Philbin puts up with that primadonna nonsense.

Just look at how things went for two of the league stars who held out recently: Revis got traded, and Jones-Drew got nothing but a fine.


Besides, Ireland has us well positioned cap-wise. We'll be able to pay our stars when the time comes. We will be able to pay Pouncey and Tannehill, Keller too, if we want him back. But Soliai and Starks won't be back at anything near what they are making this year.

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think it can be smart to negotiate a year early
> for the team in some cases.. Had we resigned
> Hartline last season which he wanted, we probably
> would have gotten him cheaper..

Hartline was in the hospital near death last year. Even if we'd been pushing for a deal then it's unlikely he would have taken less.

Go look up the news reports. We offered less last year, we offered a little more during the season. He turned those down because he knew he'd have more leverage in March. its easy to say we could have gotten them for less. it's usually not the case.

They know the business just as well as the teams do. first contract...advantage team. Second contract is where you get paid. Very few guys take less than what their agent tells them is fair market value.


Still, if Ireland had signed Hartline to a $20-25M 5year deal last summer, people would have been questioning the sanity of giving that much money to a guy who nearly dies last off-season, missed all OT's and nearly all of training camp and who had never had a 1,000 yard season.




> If the Ravens
> didnt wait until this year to resign Flacco, they
> probably get him for half to three quarters the
> money it cost them this year, which cash strapped
> their cap this year... If Reshad Jones lights it
> up this year again, he will surely want more money
> then you could probably get him for today... I
> definitely think there is value in working out
> deals early in some situations... But it is also a
> risk and can set a bad precedent.. Tough call to
> make...


Flacco turned down their offer September that would have made him a top 10 QB salary-wise. He bet on himself and won big. A lot of these guys share that self confidence. Its why they don't usually take less money to re-up sooner.

What Ireland should do is wait until mid to late August, assess Joens play this pre-season to see if he was a one-hit wonder or not.

If he thinks he's the real deal, then start talking about a long term deal.

Just because Jones wants to start talks now doesn't mean he's willing to take less. Could be he's just in a hurry to get paid.

*EDIT*

In all fairness, I have edited my entire post regarding Reshad Jones being a no-show for day one of OTA's. I was wrong for reacting so harsh prematurely.

We all have personal issues to tend to and sometimes the timing is bad. I hope he has whatever issue it was sorted out and will be able to fully participate in the remainder of OTA's.


808



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/22/2013 06:11PM by 808phan.

Sign him now.

If we dont, and he has another huge year as most expect, his price tage only gets higher.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

Maybe he should be signed. As A+O said, if he blossoms this year into a top 10 DB, which a lot of critics have said he can if he does the right things this off season and going into the season, he'll cost us more.

He or his agent must have been reading my post...lol

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche