trading down with the rams at 16 makes a lot of sense. if they want austin to replace amendola, they likely need to jump over tampa or carolina to get him. and anyone we'd take at 12 is pretty likely to be there at 16, so if we could pick up a 3d and 4th to slide down 4 spots, I'd be all over that. then package some of the 2ds/3ds to move back into the back of the 1st if there was someone we really wanted.
I like this idea a lot.

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

I think Ireland has set himself up to not have to trade up in the 1st rnd, plus the fact he's never done it in the past.
And contrary to popular belief, he's only traded down in the 1st rnd once that I can recall? We shall see in a week and a half.

Ireland has never done it before but we have never had as many picks as we do now either.

Like most people say, value is in the bottom 3rd of round 1 and lower. No elite players at the top.

There is always a players or two that turn out to be elite. We just need to identify that player.....and a couple more in the second round.

Berk: I tend to agree with you about a trade down and STL @ 16 is a good spot but if we go 4 picks later we can pick up an extra 200 points (350 total) and that nets us a 2nd rounder.

We could trade with Chicago @ 20 for their 50th pick but would owe them 50 points (or a low 4th round pick) unless we can make the sale without it...or throw in a player.

We could then package picks 2-50 and 2-54 (760 points) to move back to pick #23 with the Vikings (who have two 1st round picks)....

That would still leave us two 1st rounders and 1 second round pick....or

trade 2-42 and 3-77 (685 points) with Houston for pick 27 (ahead of Pats) and we still have two 1st round picks, two 2nd round picks and one 3rd.

....Just some options we have...

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

Why would you want to trade down and put yourself in position to draft a bust...?

If anything we need to trade up. Do not trade down.

eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ireland has never done it before but we have never
> had as many picks as we do now either.
>
> Like most people say, value is in the bottom 3rd
> of round 1 and lower. No elite players at the
> top.
>
> There is always a players or two that turn out to
> be elite. We just need to identify that
> player.....and a couple more in the second round.
>
> Berk: I tend to agree with you about a trade down
> and STL @ 16 is a good spot but if we go 4 picks
> later we can pick up an extra 200 points (350
> total) and that nets us a 2nd rounder.
>
> We could trade with Chicago @ 20 for their 50th
> pick but would owe them 50 points (or a low 4th
> round pick) unless we can make the sale without
> it...or throw in a player.
>
> We could then package picks 2-50 and 2-54 (760
> points) to move back to pick #23 with the Vikings
> (who have two 1st round picks)....
>
> That would still leave us two 1st rounders and 1
> second round pick....or
>
> trade 2-42 and 3-77 (685 points) with Houston for
> pick 27 (ahead of Pats) and we still have two 1st
> round picks, two 2nd round picks and one 3rd.
>
> ....Just some options we have...

I think the rams trade would be the best. If we dropped down to 20 in a deal with the bears we miss out on Eifert, who won't get past the giants at 19.
M
If that happened I'd keep trading down. There will be teams looking to move up into the late first for a qb they like and you'll be able to add a #1 next year from a team with a top ten pick this year.

If we can't trade up for Fisher it wouldn't be a bad idea to trade back and add an extra pick or two I this draft to take advantage of the depth this year, and then trade out of the first round and pick up a #1 next year.


Not saying it will happen but what if St. Louis wanted Austin and gave us a 3rd to move up from 16? What if the bears wanted eifert at 16...or some team in the mid 20's wanted whatever player and we got another 3rd. Then we auctioned off that pick to a team looking for Barkley, nassib, Manuel, etc for a 3rd this year and a # 1 next year.

We'd end up with two 2nds and five 3rds in a draft that's strength is in the 2nd-5th rounds.

Plus we'd have a lottery ticket from a bad team in next years top heavy, star studded draft.

I know it won't happen but I'd be fine with it if it did.

samsam3738 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why would you want to trade down and put yourself
> in position to draft a bust...?
>
> If anything we need to trade up. Do not trade
> down.


Sam, you are ALWAYS in a position to draft a bust.

And it's not like the only good players in this draft are going to go in the top 12.

Trading down isn't a problem. The issue is picking the right players. And if you can't do that then it doesntmatterwhere you pick.

The truth..... but do you agree that there is a better chance of picking a better player if you trade up as opposed as if you trade down?

eesti that question goes to you too.

From one pick to the next there could be a big difference in who you pick.................................

Not really Samsam, trading up just for the sake of trading up is a ridiculously bad idea. If they trade up, they better have a strong conviction on someone, not sure that guy exists in this draft?

IMO, taking an O-lineman at 12 is one thing, trading up to do it is another, some of the same arguments used on this board a few months ago about letting Long walk, could be flipped around on why not to trade up to grab another O-lineman.

samsam3738 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> eesti that question goes to you too.
>
> From one pick to the next there could be a big
> difference in who you
> pick.................................

But if those players are gone in the top 3 or 4 picks, then we may end up trading up for a player who carries a similar grade to the players who will be available from picks 12-20. I don't see any players worth giving up mulitple picks to move into the top 3. Like I said it just depends on how each player is graded by the FO. I don't see any huge difference makers. Do you?

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

guys ive never said we should trade up. I guess i was misunderstood.

I meant i rather trade up than trade down. If i had to make a choice between the two.

My true feelings are we should stay put and pick at # 12. we should be able to get someone good at 12. even great.

Its just a matter of finding the right player.

Look at it this way.....To Whoever say we should trade down.......

you mean to tell me there are just about 10 good players in this draft and we are not going to have a shot at them?

there got to be at least 50 players in this draft that are going to become great....or at least 30...........

you mean to tell me we have the # 12th pick and we wont get one of them?

that goes again for the people that want to trade down.

samsam3738 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The truth..... but do you agree that there is a
> better chance of picking a better player if you
> trade up as opposed as if you trade down?


No. Who you pick is who you pick regardless of where you are. Ireland already has a laundry list of who he wants. its just a matter of where they fall and if they are available. Moving up does not give you a better chance of anything, it only ensures you get a particular player if you are dead set on one. The only thing that increases Odds are more picks. Because each pick is a complete new opportunity.

GO DOLPHINS!!!!

samsam3738 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The truth..... but do you agree that there is a
> better chance of picking a better player if you
> trade up as opposed as if you trade down?


Yes and no Sam.

Moving up gives you a larger pool if talent to choose from, it doesn't mean you are going to get a better player.

samsam3738 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why would you want to trade down and put yourself
> in position to draft a bust...?
>
> If anything we need to trade up. Do not trade
> down.

I am not advocating this but it is being reported that KC is "begging" to trade the number 1 OA pick. This should tell you where the value is in this years draft.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

it's pretty clear who will be gone by the time we pick at 12: the 3 top tackles and the top CB. There is a significant drop off at those positons once you get to the 2d tier, and anyone we took at 12 in that tier would be a big reach AND would very likely be available later in the 1st (at least at 16, where I'd like to swap with the Rams). So at 12 we will likely be left with one of the top 2 guards, the top TE, Tayvon Austin (who I don't see us taking), and from a mess of DE/DTs who all have questions (Star L, S Richardson, etc). At least 2 of those folks will be there at 16 same as 12, more if at least 1 QB goes in the top. If the Rams would give us their 3 and 4 to swap, or their #2 in exchange for our #4, I make that trade.

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

Another example of the craziness and unpredictability of this years draft...

Most experts have Star Lotu and Shariff Floyd as the top DT's in this years draft. They are projected to go as high as number 1 overall in some projections but mainly fall in the top 5.

Another player, Sylvester Williams has been projected to go in the lower third of round 1. Some scouts say they have him rated equally with Lotu and Floyd.

So if that is really the case. What's the better scenario for a team that is looking for a DT? Move up for Floyd? or trade down and take Williams?

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> samsam3738 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Why would you want to trade down and put
> yourself
> > in position to draft a bust...?
> >
> > If anything we need to trade up. Do not trade
> > down.
>
>
> Sam, you are ALWAYS in a position to draft a
> bust.
>
> And it's not like the only good players in this
> draft are going to go in the top 12.
>
> Trading down isn't a problem. The issue is
> picking the right players. And if you can't do
> that then it doesntmatterwhere you pick.

*************************************************

Sam, about the only time I would trade up is if my team is on the cusp of a Super bowl and I just need that one guy and he is in the top 5 of the draft. Otherwise, stay at 12 or trade back and pick up an extra pick (or two).

I stick with my original thoughts in that Miami stays at 12 if that guy Ireland has had his eye on is still there. I trade back if that guy is not there, or....I think he could still be there if I trade back about 5 spots. I also trade back, especially this year, because the draft is deep with depth. There are numerous players with about the same grade late in the first as there are at 12, and I would venture to say that starters could be had in the second round, also.

Miami, despite what Ireland has done in the off season, still has holes to fill, and the more bodies he can get in the draft the better chance he has of coming up with starters.