I'd rather sign Winston to play RT and draft Warmack or Cooper to be a pro bowl pulling guard (allegedly) for the next 10 years, than trade up for Lane Johnson

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

do you trust Martin @LT?

I'd like to. But not so sure.

As evidenced by the draft projection -- ninja level pass-pro LTs are still a big-time premium and... All I'm saying is that if we make a move for Johnson -- and it's not off the charts costly (like maybe a 3rd) then I'm OK with that.

soLong sucked in pass pro no matter what the dweeb stat-heads say. So it's not like we've had a legit "state-of-the-passing-art" LT on the roster. Putting that piece in place will help Thill as much as another WR -- over the long term probably a lot more.

Outside of that -- the #12 pick is just slightly out of the money and we'd be better parlaying that spot for what I described in plan b -- though of course this is all theoretical and you should not try this at home without proper supervision.

BNF.

Hell no i dont trust martin at left tackle.

If not Martin @LT then who???

It may be that simple as far as our draft plan if indeed Philbin doesn't see Martin @LT. Then we obviously have to draft one.

In such case break glass and revert to plan a.

Draft a Stud Left tackle with either of the first 2 picks.

I like the Trade down scenario. The more the better our odds that we land starters and play makers. I'd rather have 7 Picks and miss out on 4 , the have 5 and miss out on 3. Or........maybe by a miracle the hit on 6 out of 7!?

GO DOLPHINS!!!!

samsam3738 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Draft a Stud Left tackle with either of the first
> 2 picks.

I agree but...

The problem is there are 3 "stud LTs" in the draft and they are ALL projected to be gone by #12 (they will probably be gone in the top 7-10 picks).

After that there's a number of good looking RT prospects and some "developmental" LTs but none that are considered to be day 1 NFL ready starters -- which we presently need.

So barring a trade for Brandon Albert (and that will be costly on $$$ and draft capital) it's easy to see where our #1 need is. And it ain't a midget WR.

Gil Brandt says to not believe the rumors, and that 3 QBs will be drafted in the top 15 picks. If that happens, Johnson could slide to us.

I hope a few qbs fall to the first 15 so we can have a crack at one of the better tackles. You never know whats going to happen.


quote: And it ain't a midget WR.


God no.

dolfanmark Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gil Brandt says to not believe the rumors, and
> that 3 QBs will be drafted in the top 15 picks. If
> that happens, Johnson could slide to us.

I just want johnson to at least slide to 10. I don't mind trading up two spots to get in front of SD to get him.

what's the fascination with johnson? was he really that great in college or is everyone just excited b/c he runs a good 40?

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

Having our starting tackles next year being Winston and Martin does nothing to comfort my fears about the tackle position.. Signing a fairly cheap starting LT is not a bad way to go... The thing about Johnson is most of the scouts I have heard say you are really splitting hairs when ranking the top 3 tackles. I have heard them say Johnson has the most upside of the 3 and the only reason he is below the other 2 is because of lack of experience... If we(the phins) believe in Martin then we could definitely draft a decent right tackle with one of our 2nd rd picks... I am happy with whatever we do, as long as our hole at tackle is filled and it does not become a problem next year..

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

berkeley223 Wrote:
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> what's the fascination with johnson? was he really
> that great in college or is everyone just excited
> b/c he runs a good 40?

That's a good question -- and you can overlay a similar concept on a number of draft prospects...

But regarding Johnson -- the dude has huge upside to his game athletically AND was dominant impressive at the Senior Bowl (practices where he supposedly pitched a complete shut-out in drills -- better than Fisher).

The dude is a vastly superior athlete in comparison to the pharmacological "wonder boy" we lost via FA -- and hopefully should be a legit N F L LT for 10 to 12 years (barring an unforeseen alien intervention and subsequent mass obsession with "pong" in all of its "ping" and so forth iterations).

Do you follow?

BNF.

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> what's the fascination with johnson? was he really
> that great in college or is everyone just excited
> b/c he runs a good 40?


I think the fascination is a combination of the 40 time, his upside, and the fact that he is the only top rated LT prospect that may be available to us.

Interesting that one of the knocks on Johnson is that he needs to improve his strength, just like Martin a year ago.

I thought I read somewhere recently that Parcells/Ireland never drafted anyone from Oklahoma in either of their careers?

dolfanmark Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> berkeley223 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > what's the fascination with johnson? was he
> really
> > that great in college or is everyone just
> excited
> > b/c he runs a good 40?
>
>
> I think the fascination is a combination of the 40
> time, his upside, and the fact that he is the only
> top rated LT prospect that may be available to us.


not sure that is worth 12 + a 3d rounder (or a 2d to here some on here tell it)

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

Then plan b. Trade down. Drop down. Make more picks happen. Load the gun. Shoot more bullets. Kill the opposition. Obliterate all of Foxborough. Destroy all Massachusetts wastelands including Boston Framingham and every Wal-Mart in North America. Just do it. And shut UP!

But first. Get us a legit LT.

you a masshole, bnf?

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

No. A big nasty Masshole. More like prime SFL catfish left to rot in the moldy ningland fridg. But hey. I'm totally vegan.

dolfanmark Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gil Brandt says to not believe the rumors, and
> that 3 QBs will be drafted in the top 15 picks. If
> that happens, Johnson could slide to us.


I don't see that as a realistic likelihood. Though of course it's a possibility. Based on my ciphering there are 5 teams in front of us with significant LT needs. They are:

1. Kansas City Chiefs
4. Phila Eagles
5. Detroit Lions
7. Arizona Cardinals
11. San Diego Chargers

The Chiefs are expected to grab Jockel no.1, which immediately leaves 4 teams chasing 2 players (5 teams if you count us). Most expect the Eagles to take Fisher, which leaves 3 teams in front of us who need LT with only one (Lane Johnson) remaining on the board.

Based on the above projections we will need to trade places with Cleveland @ #6 to have a realistic chance to land Lane Jonson (provided he's on the board). In that scenario 3 of the top 6 picks are LTs -- which I find more likely than 3 QBs going in the top 15.

Note: the move with Cleveland would most likely cost us our #54 pick (i.e., Vontae Davis trade).

No matter how you slice the pie it's going to cost us if we want to land a legit LT in this draft. We have the resources to do it -- and the #1 pick (Lane Johnson) should be an immediate impact player for us -- and stabilize the OL. Barring that, I would hope for a trade-down scenario whereby we can maximize the yield in this draft while maybe not finding the ideal solution at LT.

In that case we have to hope Martin is up to the task. And that's the real wildcard here IMO. If Philbin & Co. have a high degree of confidence that Martin is going to solve LT problem then we have zero reason to make a play for Johnson -- unless he does happen to fall into our lap.

everyone is writing Martin after after a steller college career as a 4 year starter at LT, but you want to trade up our 1st and 2d for another college OT with less experience and you expect immediate greatness?

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

It's not about my projections or expectations -- its the consensus on the player + ((more important)) the evaluation Philbin & Ireland have on (a) Martin as a bona fide NFL LT and (b) the need to fill that role with a player like Johnson and thus (c) the grade they have on Johnson to be an immediate impact player @LT.

Like I says in the prior posts -- this is 100% contingent on where Philbin believes Martin is going to perform this season. I'd say it's at least 50/50 they're not 100% confident that Martin is the solution at LT. But maybe they are.

Beyond that -- if they're convinced Martin is NOT the solution at LT then we need to solve that right away. That's my take. Nothing more.

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> everyone is writing Martin after after a steller
> college career as a 4 year starter at LT, but you
> want to trade up our 1st and 2d for another
> college OT with less experience and you expect
> immediate greatness?


Precisely.

dolfanmark Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Interesting that one of the knocks on Johnson is
> that he needs to improve his strength, just like
> Martin a year ago.
>
> I thought I read somewhere recently that
> Parcells/Ireland never drafted anyone from
> Oklahoma in either of their careers?

********************************************************

From Pro Football Weekly Draft 2013:

Lane Johnson

- Not explosive rolling off the ball and generating movement

- Does not consistently finish blocks

- Sets tall and will let defenders get underneath his pads

- Can improve finishing strength - struggles some with power

- Only a one-year OLT starter

Converted prep quarterback and college tight end who outgrew the position and still moves with the agility and grace of a skilled athlete. Technique continues to steadily improve and possesses the quickness, agility and balance to become a quality blind-side protector.

He is a late-bloomer who has the footwork and balance to hold down a left tackle job for a long time.

From an anonymous scout: Lane Johnson is not very strong. He's really a developmental guy that you'd like to let spend a year in the weight room. He has feet - he just hasn't filled out yet. He can bend. He started as a tight end. He has a lot of upside.

Remember too that the magazine was published BEFORE the combine.

BigNastyFish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's not about my projections or expectations --
> its the consensus on the player + ((more
> important)) the evaluation Philbin & Ireland have
> on (a) Martin as a bona fide NFL LT and (b) the
> need to fill that role with a player like Johnson
> and thus (c) the grade they have on Johnson to be
> an immediate impact player @LT.
>
> Like I says in the prior posts -- this is 100%
> contingent on where Philbin believes Martin is
> going to perform this season. I'd say it's at
> least 50/50 they're not 100% confident that Martin
> is the solution at LT. But maybe they are.
>
> Beyond that -- if they're convinced Martin is NOT
> the solution at LT then we need to solve that
> right away. That's my take. Nothing more.

*******************************************************

I see it as Philbin and company "hope" Martin is the answer at LT. Remember, there was a lot of talk of Martin having to strengthen his upper body to be able to play LT well. The off season camps have yet to start (for Miami), but hopefully he has been working out on his own, then once training camp starts, Miami will have a better idea as to where he is. But....

Miami can't depend on Martin (hopefully) getting stronger, so they will have to grab another LT, either in the draft or (again) in FA.

Ireland is stuck between a rock and a hard place. If Martin had shown enough in the few games he played at LT last season, then Ireland would have no doubt that he wouldn't have the NEED to go after another one. But because he doesn't have that confidence, he is trapped and will have to grab another one (or two) somewhere in the draft and (probably) have to go after a FA as well.

this guy johnson sounds like more of a gamble than martin. at least martin played LT at a high lever for 4 years at stanford. this guy played for one season and is a workout wonder, and people want to trade up for him?
why don't we sign winston already, draft an OT in the 2d to groom for LT or RT (let's see how Martin does at LT with an offseason under his belt) rather than get desperat to draft a starting OL and trade up for someone unproven.

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

I don't agree with trading up anyway, unless it is for a blue chipper. Johnson is not that.