Cordarelle Patterson, Tyler Eifert & Marcus Trufant in the first 3 picks....not to bad.

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“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

2 pass threats and CB, not a bad way to go... Not to sure the specifics on the players...

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

eesti Wrote:
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> Cordarelle Patterson, Tyler Eifert & Marcus
> Trufant in the first 3 picks....not to bad.


Give me: Dion Jordan/Azeikel Ansah, Tyler Eiffert, and Steadman Bailey if the draft falls that way and I'd be doing backflips.

If Tyler Eifert falls to us in the second I will be doing back flips.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

From what I've seen Patterson is head and shoulders the most dynamic athlete in the top end of WR class. The dude looks like a freaky machine on a number of plays, and his potential for YAC is totally sick.

Check out the moves this kid has in space -- he slices through the D with amazing vision and outstanding quick cuts and wild angles. Definitely fits the bill as a "playmaker" with super-star upside. NOT a finished product and that's the risk. But the kid has the core athletic chops to be a totally dominant alpha dog.

He'll have to wait, BNF, for us to sign Bowe or Wallace or someone else in free agency. After all, let's never get anyone in the first round of the draft at a position that we could fill in free agency. Let's trade down all our top picks and do all our draft picking in the 3rd 4th and later rounds.

BigNastyFish Wrote:
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> Yea but watch this and be entertained:
>
> Cordarrelle Patterson


Well, BNF. Since, you see now from that he's going to be a sensation in the NFL, our path of action is clear.

We wait for him to be drafted by some other NFL team. Then he makes all pro. And then, he plays out his contract and re-signs for an additional 3 years.

Then after he has played for six years in the NFL and his second contract is up, we bid for him.

So who is the All-Pro WR in this draft? Who is the best?

IMO we need to do both...sign a FA, draft a WR and TE with top two picks if the draft allows us to do that.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

I'm not big on going LARGE in Free Agency for a WR or any other position -- it's pretty much proven by the top teams that's NOT the way you build a long-term solution.

Like the organic farmers say -- "grow your own!" And we need to stick to the plan to continuously build through the draft and NOT sell-out to the temptation to win-at-all-costs by going after high-priced FA's with questionable backgrounds and/or motivations (because IMO historically a good percentage of FA players are more about making a money grab than anything else).

Plus, I'm into keeping most of our own FA's and that means we need to reinvest internally before we blow a bunch of money on the street.

Key point here IMO is perspective. We're not on target to be a serious playoff team next year. Maybe we can threaten for the playoffs, and maybe get in as a Wild Card. But more realistically we should be looking for our first wining season under the new regime. To me that's the BASIC benchmark.

So 9-7 is the low rank on the bar with 10-6 (or better) as the goal. But, as I was yacking about back yonder, that's totally contingent on Thill's development. If he amps his game in a significant way then I fully expect the team to produce a winning record. On the other hand, if his development stalls, we'll struggle to get to 500. It's that simple.

So all this fuss about a "big-name" ready made WR etc. is absolutely secondary to the need for Thill to evolve in a big way -- and for the staff to ramp the games up of the young talent this team already has. Add to that a significant haul of draft picks and our FA needs should not be dominant in any way, shape or form.

My .02.

I agree with BNF.

Ive always said we need to draft and groom our own.

Never been in favor of overpaying for players ( whoever they are ) who have been in other teams who are used to other systems.

Bring in the puppy feed him and let him grow into a big bulldog.

Its never worked out for us as far as free agents or trading draft picks for other teams trash.

I understand bringing in a free agent who doesnt cost much to somehow upgrade the position or for special teams. Just dont give the house in order to bring him in.

I also agree we are not a definite serious playoff contender next year. Not even close.

Except we don't have any play makers to resign. We have a few solid players that on occasion make plays....Hartline, Starks & Bush.

By rule of thumb FA is not the way to build but whether it's thru FA or the draft you just have to hit on what you invest in.

We can draft all we want but if you don't find play makers then it's no better than signing a FA.

There are times when you can go big in FA and times when you can't. I don't think the Ravens are regretting the signing of Anquan Boldin.

We've got to spend the money somewhere and most of our own FA's can be upgraded. Like the Kevin Colbert, GM for the Steelers said....We are 8-8 so the roster HAS to change.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

But there are things better changed in free agency, like defensive backs and there are positions in which, risk though it may be, it is better to do in the draft such as QB and WR.

ChyrenB Wrote:
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> But there are things better changed in free
> agency, like defensive backs and there are
> positions in which, risk though it may be, it is
> better to do in the draft such as QB and WR.

I see you speaking of philosophies in general terms when it comes to FA and the draft.

I don't think there is a general rule for this as it changes every year. For instance, there are better WR's available in FA this year then there are CB's. There are not really any stud CB's out there that meet the same criteria....

There were better QB's last year compared to this year in the draft.

Franchise QB's hardly ever come free in FA.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

BigNastyFish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm not big on going LARGE in Free Agency for a WR
> or any other position -- it's pretty much proven
> by the top teams that's NOT the way you build a
> long-term solution.
>
> Like the organic farmers say -- "grow your own!"


Every team in the final 4 has added a key WR/TE via trade or free agency. None of them are all home grown.

NE: Wes Welker, Brandon Lloyd.
Atlanta: Tony Gonzalez, (even Julio Jones was a HUGE draft day trade)

SF: Moss, Manningham
BAL: Anquan Boldin


You find talent wherever you can. Draft, trades, free agency, undrafted FA's, open tryouts...


There is plenty of it in free agency if you know where to look.

I don't see why you'd want to ignore ANY of those channels when trying to improve your team.

You just need to be accurate in your talent evaluations and smart in how you spend your assets.

Mike Wallace comes with definite issues (physicality, durability, attitude, etc) and his signing would totally trash our salary cap management by overpaying for a player we didn't develop -- that creates $$$ resentment and team division (at a critical stage when the vast majority of our roster is still developing).

Signing a douche like Wallace would be a sure sign of desperation. Not a smart move by any measure IMO. Totally short-sighted and reactionary IMO.

But hey. That kind of stupid move fits this franchises history so it just might happen.

Precisely the point. We're no where near a final 4 team so stop the nonsense of signing a big-buck FA football messiah and get with the building program.

No more stupid moves. No more desperation reaches. No more quick fixes. No more BS. Just get the freaking job done. And shut UP!

BigNastyFish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mike Wallace comes with definite issues
> (physicality, durability, attitude, etc) and his
> signing would totally trash our salary cap
> management by overpaying for a player we didn't
> develop -- that creates $$$ resentment and team
> division (at a critical stage when the vast
> majority of our roster is still developing).
>
> Signing a douche like Wallace would be a sure sign
> of desperation. Not a smart move by any measure
> IMO. Totally short-sighted and reactionary IMO.
>
> But hey. That kind of stupid move fits this
> franchises history so it just might happen.


If Wallace is such a bad dude...why did Pittsburgh offer him 5 years, 45 mill?

They are notoriously frugal. Yet they were willing to pay him near top dollar to lock him up long term. Doesn't seem to fit the disposing of malcontents pattern they have displayed over the years (Burress, Holmes, etc).

As for your durability concerns...they are unfounded. He's been inactive for ONE game in 4 years.

As for the physicality issue...not every WR is Brandon Marshall. Of course if we wanted a Brandon marshall type WR he'd still be here.

I don't want him on our roster. But hey, I'm just a amateur with an opinion.

If the dude is out to make a big $$$ grab I'm totally out of the market. And I was under the impression he'd missed more time with assorted nicks etc. Maybe I'm wrong... But still, way too rich and I'm not cool about the precedent it sets for this regime.

BigNastyFish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't want him on our roster. But hey, I'm just
> a amateur with an opinion.
>
> If the dude is out to make a big $$$ grab I'm
> totally out of the market. And I was under the
> impression he'd missed more time with assorted
> nicks etc. Maybe I'm wrong... But still, way too
> rich and I'm not cool about the precedent it sets
> for this regime.

We are all amateurs here BNF...to each his own.

I was under the distinct impression this place was littered with pro scouts and assorted
N F L 22 caliber "insiders?" And now you tell me its just a beebee gun???

Heck, if the joint is dominated by a bunch of amateur hacks, I'm out!

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> He'll have to wait, BNF, for us to sign Bowe or
> Wallace or someone else in free agency. After
> all, let's never get anyone in the first round of
> the draft at a position that we could fill in free
> agency. Let's trade down all our top picks and do
> all our draft picking in the 3rd 4th and later
> rounds.

***********************************************

You sound bitter, Chyren <g>

Who would you rather have; Wallace or Patterson?

Me? I would take Wallace. He's got the speed, has been in the NFL for a while and knows the ins and outs, and most importantly, has already proven himself. As everyone says, it usually takes a rookie WR 2-3 years to get used to the pro game. Can Miami wait?

I do realize, however, that Wallace is going to be expensive; but we are (almost) guaranteed that Miami will get quick results.

It is very possible that he could be there when Miami has their first 2nd round pick. Then the Fins have the best of both worlds.

Also, as has been mentioned here numerous times; Ireland's job is on the line. He has to hit on this draft (and FAs) this year. He can't be messing around, and he won't be.

samsam3738 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I agree with BNF.
>
> Ive always said we need to draft and groom our
> own.
>
> Never been in favor of overpaying for players (
> whoever they are ) who have been in other teams
> who are used to other systems.
>
> Bring in the puppy feed him and let him grow into
> a big bulldog.
>
> Its never worked out for us as far as free agents
> or trading draft picks for other teams trash.
>
> I understand bringing in a free agent who doesnt
> cost much to somehow upgrade the position or for
> special teams. Just dont give the house in order
> to bring him in.
>
> I also agree we are not a definite serious playoff
> contender next year. Not even close.

**********************************************************

The problem with that Sam, is that Miami doesn't go after a big name FA (i.e., Wallace) then Ireland and the Fins organization gets hammered for not doing so. Wallace signs with someone, Miami doesn't even bother to be serious, he has an All Pro year, then here come the dogs. Fire Ireland!!!

Again, Wallace is not trash; he just wants more money than Pitt is willing to pay him.

I, too, am not in favor of overpaying for players; never have been. Long is a good example. Wallace will be overpayed no matter who gets him. but, IMO, I think he would be worth it, and if Wallace is the guy we pay big bucks to, then he is the only high-priced FA I would sign.

Patterson is exactly the kind of player we need more of on our roster.

I'm also not against us signing a F/A WR either but even if we do we should be taking CP at #12.

A quality F/A, CP, Bess, and Hartline would give us a potent 4 WR set...then add a Dynamic TE in RD #2 of the draft and resign Bush and we suddenly have a great group of threats as our pass catchers.

To answer your question as to who I would rather have, Wallace or Patterson, Cap. Patterson.

BigNastyFish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mike Wallace comes with definite issues
> (physicality, durability, attitude, etc) and his
> signing would totally trash our salary cap
> management by overpaying for a player we didn't
> develop -- that creates $$$ resentment and team
> division (at a critical stage when the vast
> majority of our roster is still developing).
>
> Signing a douche like Wallace would be a sure sign
> of desperation. Not a smart move by any measure
> IMO. Totally short-sighted and reactionary IMO.
>
> But hey. That kind of stupid move fits this
> franchises history so it just might happen.

**************************************************

Wallace will be Miami's #1 target this off season, but I can guarantee that if he asks for the sky, Miami will drop the pursuit. Signing Wallace, IMO, is not an act of desperation, unless you define desperation as wanting to get the best players available to improve your team.

This franchise's history? Look back and you will see many, many smart moves. Have there been any dumb moves? You bet, but Miami, through the years, has done very well. BTW, all NFL teams have made dumb moves.

But the last four years have had a few good draft moves and too much of the free agency dumpster diving.