Poll

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Would you rather fill our most critical needs in the Draft and let it take awhile or go shopping in the free agency market to fill our holes?

	Free agency
	Draft

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The Draft and free agency.

Hey guys. I am tired of shopping in the bargain basement.

Haven't we been doing that for the past decade?

Trying to supplement our need with the trash of others.

What success have we had?

One. Cameron Wake and we got him from the CFL.

But as to Tannehill, Martin, and Pouncey, which are to me our most valuable players otherwise, we got them all in the draft and all recently.

Let's go draft; not free agency.

The below poll will let me know where you stand

Too many holes to fill to be one or the other, Ireland's gonna have to plug some holes with FA's.

These aren't mutually exclusive.

A good GM knows how to build both wats. A bad GM knows neither. I'm afraid we have the latter.

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Miami Dolphins. Always Perfect.

It has to be a tasteful blend of the two but heavy on draft. Free agents rarely work out when you factor in the extra cost. Nothing is going to work out if we don't establish some consistency with the coaches.

Both. We just need play makers and game changers instead of blue collar plodders.

Get the best you can in FA then draft to fill biggest areas of need while still taking BPA.

FA's: Mike Wallace WR, Andy Levitre LG, Jared Cook TE, Randy Starks, Brian Hartline, depth

Draft: CB, WR, TE, OT, DE

Let walk: Sean Smith, Fasano,

Offensive line next year:

LT Martin, LG Levitre, C Pouncey, RG Incognito, RT Rookie

WR's:

1 Wallace, 2 Hartline, 3 Terrance Williams, 4 Mathews, 5 Bess

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“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

Honestly guys when was the last time we hit on a FA? Starks? Last year Ireland signed FA's Garrard, Ochocinco, and Richard Marshall... While I know we need to make a move for a FA WR, but I don't have a lot of confidence in Ireland and his reputation signing FA's... Based on the past he sucks at it...

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

Have to agree with Crowder52 on Ireland's track record. Cam Wake was a good one. Bess was an undrafted FA also, correct?

Cam wake came from the CFL and Bess was signed immediately following the draft as an undrafted FA. Neither of which I would consider a traditional FA signing... Come to think of it, I don't think Starks was either. I don't recall but I think we traded for him ...

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

By the way we spent some where around 9-10 million of last years cap on Garrard , Ochocinco and Richard Marshall... We got pretty much nothing for that money, but paying Jake Long or Reggie Bush is a mistake they are overpriced......lol... Ok, I gues you guys don't pay attention to all of the wasted cap money Ireland has spent on players that gave us squat..Long and bush on the other hand have given us much more value then most of Ireland's moves.. Come to think of it Reggie Bush is probably Ireland's best FA signing of his career, one of the only ones that worked out and everybody wants to move on for greener pastures...lol... Do you guys pay attention to our personnel move the last 4 years...

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

Dansby and Burnett anyone? Dansby was probably the top free agent target that year, not sure how you can fault Ireland for landing one of the top FA targets of his year?

Dansby is overpaid and battled injuries.. He was paid like Ray Lewis, and was above average at best during that contract..This year was probably his best year, coincidently the end of his guaranteed money..

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

Many of you say "both" but the question is as to the "critical" needs.

Question Mark. How did shopping in free agency do it for us with respect to quarterback all those years?

Draft all the way...

F/A is good for stop-gap players, short term solutions, veteran depth, and veteran leadership. The draft is where a teams long term improvement, and overall quality come from.

That said, there are occasionally a few gems in F/A but usually its underachievers and guys at the end of thier career.

Crowder52 Wrote:
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> Dansby is overpaid and battled injuries.. He was
> paid like Ray Lewis, and was above average at best
> during that contract..This year was probably his
> best year, coincidently the end of his guaranteed
> money..


Yeah in hindsight it's easy to criticize the move, at the time though, he was probably one of the top FA targets, and most on here liked the signing. You're just still bitter because they cut Crowder



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/06/2013 05:17AM by dolphaholic.

Starks was indeed a free agent who signing a 5 year, 32 mil contract with Miami. Wake was a free agent as well as cannot be discounted as a FA signing. It was actually more of a risky move because there was no NFL tape on him.

Those are two big ones right there. Starks was a backup DT for Tennessee.

Karlos Dansby, Richie Incognito are a couple more decent signings.

There are undrafted FA's if you want to count them or not....Dan Carpenter, Pat Devlin, Devon Bess. It's still a matter of evaluating talent and signing them so Ireland should get some credit for thse moves.

There were also trades which is the same premise/evaluation process as signing a FA except you give up draft picks.

Reggie Bush, Brandon Marshall, Anthony Fasano, Jason Ferguson, Akin Ayodele, Tim Dobbins...

Waiver wire pickups...Dimitri Patterson...jury still out.

Another FA is Richard Marshall...jury still out.

So now we have....

Chad Pennington
Matt Moore
Reggie Bush
Brandon Marshall
Fasano
Ayodele
Ferguson
Dansby
Incognito
Wake
Starks
McDaniel
Jason Taylor
Marcus Thigpen
Javorskie Lane
Jason Trusnik
Richard Marshall

16-17 acquisitions that produced for Miami that I can think of....

Then there were Justin Smiley and Jake Grove. Two players that played well but battled injuries. I don't view these as smart moves since they had injury problems before coming to Miami and we signed them anyway. They did play well though while they were starting.

The not so good moves....

Ernest Wilford, Gibril Wilson, Nathan Jones, Marco Columbo

Who am I missing? A few more bad moves maybe but I don't think the history is as bad as most believe.

Chad Johnson? Benny Sapp? Jabar Gaffney? Anthony Armstrong? Not a big deal because we didn't lose much.

The problem Parcels/Ireland got into in the past was signing players who had a clear history and expecting them to be something other than what they were...Smiley, Grove, Wilford, Columbo, etc. Smiley and Grove had injury problems and then came here and got injured. Wilford and Columbo sucked before they got here and sucked while they were here. I never understood these moves to begin with... We just can't repeat those same mistakes.

I don't like the strategy of finding 2nd tier talent and expecting them to play a key role. Richard Marshall etc....and signing injury prone players and expecting them to stay healthy.

We need to make some bold moves. Mike Wallace, Andy Levitre, Dashon Goldson, Jairus Byrd. These are players who's price tag will be high but will be solid players.

No Gibril Wilson type crap where we project him at a position and hope for the best.

You hit on some and you miss on some. That doesn't mean you give up. We still have to make FA acquisitions.

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“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/06/2013 05:33AM by eesti.

The jury is not still out on Richard Marshall, we paid him 14+ million on a 2 year deal.. We got pretty much nothing from him last year, so unless he plays like Revis next year it was a horrible waste of 14 million.. Signing FA's that have injuries issues is Ireland's M.O...
Last year without any one to blame but himself, Ireland was absolutely horrible at improving the team by signing FA.. All he did was piss away money... He traded Brandon Marshall and Vontae Davis and attempted to fill those voids with the addition of FA's who sucked.... Please tell me how last year moves were not idiotic, please... We had a horrible secondary and got very little from our WR.. What did we have 2-3WR TD's all year.... That is horrible, was it the coaching or personnel moves, who ever is to blame for that joke should be fired... But instead you all will blame Parcells if you could...

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

The bottom line with Ireland as our GM, we have the longest streak of losing season since the existence of our Franchise... You can dress it up any way you like, that facts remains the same... New coaches, new system, but the GM and losing season remained the same.... To think Ireland is gonna break out his shell and make the right moves this offseason that will lead us to the promise land just sounds like a fools bet IMO..

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

I never said Ireland was going to "break out of his shell".

I never said 2012 was a good year for FA's.

I just posted the FA acquisitions since 2008. Frame any way you want to.

I looked at the entire picture. Not just a snap shot. You and many others don't like Ireland. I don't have a lot of faith that he will address all the needs in the right way.

I'm also not going to waste my time bitching about something that is inevitable. He is still the Miami Dolphins GM.

I give my opinions on what I think he should do this year. We just have to wait and see what he does.

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“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

Eesti my response wasn't a direct response to what you wrote, when I have a direct response to someone I normally post their name to address them.. I was making more of a general statement, I can see where it might of seemed different because I addressed the Richard Marshall about the jury not still being out..

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

Marshall ws a bust. I thought Patterson showed more in 2 weeks than marshall had, but then he wants a lot also

OK..take Richard Marshall off the list. There are still more good than bad. We have had other bad FA's but they were not paid much.

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“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

There is a difference between relying on a free agent as a stop gap measure and relying on him as your future.

We have done too much of the latter in the past.

Eesti, I didn't see K Burnett on your list?

Oh yeah...add another good one.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

eesti Wrote:
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> OK..take Richard Marshall off the list. There are
> still more good than bad. We have had other bad
> FA's but they were not paid much.


When you pay a FA the veteran or league minimum they really aren't good or bad FA evaluations. Its just casting a wide net and bringing in guys to compete for jobs.

Signing Chad Johnson after he got cut (after the draft) was a good move. It didn't work out but it didn't cost anything to take a shot either. Every team makes moves like that and the vast majority of them never amount to anything special.

ChyrenB Wrote:
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> There is a difference between relying on a free
> agent as a stop gap measure and relying on him as
> your future.
>
> We have done too much of the latter in the past.

Yes there is a difference and we have done a lot at CB but there is still no disputing the lists of good and bad. Ireland has signed many FA's that have worked out. The bad ones tend to stick out more in peoples minds because they had high hopes and we have not won.

It's still the same....we have no game changers at the moment other than Wake. Bush and Jones could be but Jones is a work in progress and Bush needs a line.

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“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

Eesti- do you realize how much dead money Gibril Wilson, Jake Groves and even Brandon Marshall this year cost us? Our big signing are then and Dansby... As far as value and helping our team win we got nothing.. If you spent that type of money on a business, you would be out of business with those expenditures on assetts that returned very little for their cost... We have had some nice signing like Bush, wake and Starks.. But relative to how we spent our money the last 5 years we have been foolish for the most part.. Ireland's is as good with undrafted FA and 7th rd picks as any other spots.. I am all for giving him control of those moves.. I just worry about the big money and 5 picks in the first 3 rds...

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

But what positions have we LOCKED UP separated by draft and free agency.

Locked up QB, C, LT (Martin), LT Long, Pouncey

Free agency DE Cameron Wake RB Reggie Bush

2 lockup positions in free agency since 2008, ain't too good.

Locked Up definition: This position is secure and we don't have any complaints there and the player is a top notched player.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/06/2013 09:51AM by ChyrenB.