I know that it's highly unlikely that they beat NE, but Buffalo is certainly in play... but for purposes of this question, assume that they win out, and finish 8-8. In that event, is the season a success? No one credibly believed we would contend this year. In fact, most of the pundits were saying the Fins would be one of the worst teams in the NFL. If they finish at .500, along with having amassed a decent number of picks and cap room, would you say 2012 was positive? I for one was pretty unhappy about where we were, but then a dose of reality hit me and I wondered what did I really expect? I think that with the number of picks we have, we could take a giant leap next year, IF we pick wisely. That is one huge IF. I hope that Ireland's job depends on how well he uses all the picks.

Yes, I'd say it was a positive at 8-8. But I'd also say it was positive if we'd finished 4-12, as long as Tannehill showed improvement throughout the year.

Tannehill was supposed to ride the pine but now he has a year of experience under his belt. That is invaluable. He is a hard working, motivated and smart kid. I think he grows by leaps and bounds over the next off-season.

Add to that some speedy weapons on offense and upgrade the line and we are in contention next year.

Even if we totally ignored the defense and just resigned our own FA (Starks and Smith) and added all the weapons on offense (draft and FA), we would be a much better team. LG, RG, RT, WR, TE, resign Reggie Bush.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

It depends on how you define success.

If you define it by whether or not we made the post season then it's not a success.

Personally I think it's already a somewhat successful season but I think it's a clear success if we beat buffalo and finish 7-9 or 8-8.

First year with a new offense.

Full year of valuable experience for our rookie qb.

1 year into converting from smash mouth to west coast on offense and 3-4 to 4-3 on defense.

We've clearly made a lot of progress and are trending in the right direction.

As for next year, this is it for Ireland. This offseason either ends his tenure here or cements his future.

It wouldn't surprise me if virtually all our draft picks were devoted to the offense.

THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It depends on how you define success.
>
> If you define it by whether or not we made the
> post season then it's not a success.

errr......I think that is a given that he is not using that definition in his initial post.

Season success or not, I really want us to beat Buffalo so that we can even dream about beating NE to end up 8-8.

For me, 8-8 with rookie QB, rookie HC, new offensive scheme, new defensive scheme and a real lack of bona-fide playmakers...yeah, that's success for 2012.

Tanihill can be Vastly improved next season. Hopefully we now have the staff to reconize who and what he needs to be even more successful.

GO DOLPHINS!!!!

THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It depends on how you define success.
>
> If you define it by whether or not we made the
> post season then it's not a success.
>
> Personally I think it's already a somewhat
> successful season but I think it's a clear success
> if we beat buffalo and finish 7-9 or 8-8.
>
> First year with a new offense.
>
> Full year of valuable experience for our rookie
> qb.
>
> 1 year into converting from smash mouth to west
> coast on offense and 3-4 to 4-3 on defense.
>
> We've clearly made a lot of progress and are
> trending in the right direction.
>
> As for next year, this is it for Ireland. This
> offseason either ends his tenure here or cements
> his future.
>
> It wouldn't surprise me if virtually all our draft
> picks were devoted to the offense.

******************************************************

What you said, Truth, is understandable, but our D needs a couple of key pieces, i.e., DB. An outside LB to help Wake get pressure on the QB sure wouldn't hurt.

Offense? It goes without saying Miami desperately needs that number 1 receiver. They could also use a TE that can stretch the field, and they could use one or two extra OL (especially if Long is allowed to leave).

More than likely they will be going after another RB. Bush may leave, but also, Thomas may be let go.

Lots of pieces that Ireland/Philbin need to fit into the puzzle.

I would LOVE to see us beat NE and have it actually mean something (i.e. seeding in the playoffs). Not sure if it will, though.

tsstamper Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Season success or not, I really want us to beat
> Buffalo so that we can even dream about beating NE
> to end up 8-8.
>
> For me, 8-8 with rookie QB, rookie HC, new
> offensive scheme, new defensive scheme and a real
> lack of bona-fide playmakers...yeah, that's
> success for 2012.


I agree. First things first. After that last showing against Buffalo we really need to beat them in the same style that we did against the Jets. We showed up and played against the Pats. I'd be happy with at least the same effort.

GO DOLPHINS!!!!

captkoi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> THE Truth Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > It depends on how you define success.
> >
> > If you define it by whether or not we made the
> > post season then it's not a success.
> >
> > Personally I think it's already a somewhat
> > successful season but I think it's a clear
> success
> > if we beat buffalo and finish 7-9 or 8-8.
> >
> > First year with a new offense.
> >
> > Full year of valuable experience for our rookie
> > qb.
> >
> > 1 year into converting from smash mouth to west
> > coast on offense and 3-4 to 4-3 on defense.
> >
> > We've clearly made a lot of progress and are
> > trending in the right direction.
> >
> > As for next year, this is it for Ireland. This
> > offseason either ends his tenure here or
> cements
> > his future.
> >
> > It wouldn't surprise me if virtually all our
> draft
> > picks were devoted to the offense.
>
> **************************************************
> ****
>
> What you said, Truth, is understandable, but our D
> needs a couple of key pieces, i.e., DB. An
> outside LB to help Wake get pressure on the QB
> sure wouldn't hurt.
>
> Offense? It goes without saying Miami desperately
> needs that number 1 receiver. They could also use
> a TE that can stretch the field, and they could
> use one or two extra OL (especially if Long is
> allowed to leave).
>
> More than likely they will be going after another
> RB. Bush may leave, but also, Thomas may be let
> go.
>
> Lots of pieces that Ireland/Philbin need to fit
> into the puzzle.


I agree cap. We need at least 1 cb... Probably two. Depends on what we do with smith.

We also need another pass rusher. You can't ever have enough of them.

It really all boils down to what we do in free agency. Which of our guys do we keep. What other pieces do we add.

I know dolphinmark disagrees, but I think Ireland HAS to get an impact WR in free agency. That a oline are the two areas most likely to be upgraded that way. We might also score a solid 3rd RB on the cheap.

I just believe Ireland knows its over for him here if the offense doesn't take a big step forward next year. I just can't see him rolling the dice on two rookie wr's who might take more than one season to have an impact.

If I had to bet I'd think we sign a WR and draft one.

I think we get a DB on the open market.

I think we draft a pass rusher, cb, WR, two olineman and a TE in our first 6 picks.

I'm not a big fan of drafting for need but I get the feeling this will mostly be a need draft for us.

Regardless if they win the next two, I truly feel the season wasn't a seccess but definitely more fun to watch.

Drafting for need probably won't be a problem for us this year since we have so many.

Needed starters...

Two WR's, TE, RT, Two CB's, DT, RB (5 FA's to resign or find)

Need upgrades at LG, RG, FS

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

It's true we have lots of needs, but I can't help feeling that if we did no more than add a pass rusher to complement Cam Wake and even one decent cornerback, the defense would be more than adequate.

The offense is where the major focus needs to be in the off season.

eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think we draft a pass rusher, cb, WR, two
> olineman and a TE in our first 6 picks.
>
> I have a feeling Ireland (as stubborn as he is)
> will not even draft a TE considering the
> investment he has made in Clay and Egnew.
>
> I hope I am wrong.
>
> I also find it interesting that we have not signed
> any of our FA's or even talked about resigning
> them.
>
> I read an article the other day that speculated
> that it may have been instructed by the owner not
> to sign anyone since Ireland may get fired and the
> new GM will want to decide who to sign. I doubt
> that very much but it was in the article.


Clay was what? A 6th round pick? If Ireland can cut Clyde gates who was a 4th round pick to keep an I drafted FA and a 7th round pick at WR I don't think he's going to be tied to clay in any special fashion.

Besides, clay is a FB/h-back. He's not an inline Te. I do t think he blocks us from drafting another TE in any way.

He traded up for Clay and Egnew was a mid to high 3rd round pick (3-15).

My definition of investment does not just include the draft pick. Clay has also gotten a lot of playing time.

Yes, Gates was a 4th rounder but he did give him two off-seasons before cutting ties. Unfortunately by the time he cut him, the draft had already passed and he did not take a WR until the 6th and 7th rounds.

It's not like we didn't have an immediate need at WR. He traded Marshall well before the draft.

Like I said I hope I'm wrong but it just seems like something he would do...or not do.

He totally ignored WR after trading Marshall. There could have been no realistic expectation for a 6th or 7th round WR to contribute much.

Do you think he'll know enough about Egnew by the draft to make a decision to keep him or spend a high pick on another? He sure didn't seem to with Gates.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> He traded up for Clay and Egnew was a mid to high
> 3rd round pick (3-15).
>

He traded up for clay but he was still a 5th or 6th round pick.


> My definition of investment does not just include
> the draft pick. Clay has also gotten a lot of
> playing time.

Ireland doesn't dole out playing time. I doubt it factors into to his thought process.


>
> Yes, Gates was a 4th rounder but he did give him
> two off-seasons before cutting ties. Unfortunately
> by the time he cut him, the draft had already
> passed and he did not take a WR until the 6th and
> 7th rounds.

Actually gates got one off season. The first was whipped out by the lockout.

Plus gates had to learn two different offenses in two years as a project WR.

The point on gates is he had every reason to keep him and give him the last WR spot. He even said how hard it was to let him go on hard knocks.

But he listened to what his coaches were telling him about who they preferred and gave them what they asked for. No emotional investments got in the way.


>
> It's not like we didn't have an immediate need at
> WR. He traded Marshall well before the draft.

It's also not like we had the cap room to go sign a big WR either.

We had about $10 mill in cap. Space going into free agency with the ability to create another $5-8 if need be.

That money was tied up in an offer to Peyton manning. By the time he signed, most of the better wr's were off the market.

To be fair though, we were never spending big money on a WR last year. It wasn't in the budget considering what we were paying Marshall to play for Chicago.


>
> Like I said I hope I'm wrong but it just seems
> like something he would do...or not do.


I don't see him having shown any emotional attachments to any players. Everything he's done seems the opposite: very unemotional and pragmatic.


>
> He totally ignored WR after trading Marshall.
> There could have been no realistic expectation for
> a 6th or 7th round WR to contribute much.

That's the point. You are right. No reasonable expectation a 7th round pick makes the team. Could have triedto get Matthews on the practice squad and keep gates. But he didnt.


>
> Do you think he'll know enough about Egnew by the
> draft to make a decision to keep him or spend a
> high pick on another? He sure didn't seem to with
> Gates.

I don't think gates had anything to do with us not selecting awr early in the draft. That was more a function of Martin falling to us In the 2nd and the fact that WR was so deep.

As for egnew, it all depends on free agency.

We need 3 te's at minimum. Do we keep fasano? Do we add a FA? Do we do both?

Why are we on the hook for Marshall's money when we traded him? I thought the other team took over all financial resposibility in trades.

This is some of our dead cap space this year....

Marshall 5.5 mil
Y. Bell 1.85 mil
V. Carey 4.8 mil
V. Davis 1.1 mil

That's 13.25 mil in dead cap money.

If it were me I would try like hell to draft TE,WR,OT in the first 3 picks even if I resign two free agent WR's (Hartline & Wallace). Surely he knows his job depends on how well Tannehill does in 2013.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why are we on the hook for Marshall's money when
> we traded him? I thought the other team took over
> all financial resposibility in trades.
>
> This is some of our dead cap space this year....
>
> Marshall 5.5 mil

>
> If it were me I would try like hell to draft
> TE,WR,OT in the first 3 picks even if I resign two
> free agent WR's (Hartline & Wallace). Surely he
> knows his job depends on how well Tannehill does
> in 2013.

I agree with that thought process. I mean its subject to change based on FA signings but if we added wallace to hartline, bess and Wallace I'd draft a WR in the 2nd or 3rd. I'd use the first on bpa at TE, oline and pass rusher and then go after the others with the 3 picks we don't spend on a WR in the 2nd and 3rd.

The one positioned have a glaring need at that I prioritize as last on my list of things to address is cb.

Assuming we keep smith, we get Marshall back and we add a serviceable cb in FA then I can wait a year to invest a good draft pick in that position. I think it's more important to build around Tannehill this year than to fill every hole in our defense.