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This is a moderated phorum for the CIVILIZED discussion of the Miami Dolphins. In this phorum, there are rules and moderators to make sure you abide by the rules. The moderators for this phorum are JC and Colonel.
Welcome to reality and playing against first teams for Ryan tannehill
Although you want to give these guys chances, reality is, we have and other than Bess, as stated, most WR are 3's & 4's at best, if that!
There is no reason to keep Naanee. He has done absolutely nothing. Wallace, Pruitt, Moore just don't cut it either, time to move on and give Hogan and Matthews a chance. At least they have shown some ability to get open and some heart.
We needed to draft a big 1-2 WR and did not . Another screwup by Ireland after trading Marshall your #1 WR
Hartline??? Dude has missed the preseason, are we keeping a spot for a guy averaging less than 40 catches a year? I guess we have to fill the roster somehow.
Need to trade for Wallace or Bowe as we have absolutely nothing.
Fasano is choking badly also. We passed on Hernandez, Graham, Fleener,Allen?
Jonathan Martin looks terrible and is getting embarassed weekly. Even John Jerry looks better! Guys drafted 3-4 rounds later have played better.
Cross our fingers for Barkley, but knowing us , we will stay with Tannehill!
Stop supporting this team until they field a decent product
Ross put your money where your mouth is. Can this crappy GM he has shown absolutely nothing
jlyell13 Wrote:
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>
> Ross put your money where your mouth is. Can this
> crappy GM he has shown absolutely nothing
Ross only puts his mouth where the money is, not the other way around. I agree about Ireland, but he is a good yes man to the owner, and so we won't see a change... unless Ross think it might generate a few extra season ticket sales.
Jlyell, you answered your own question with the first statements you made. We should keep Hartline because, with the exception of Bess and Hogan, every other receiver is crappy.
We SHOULD stay with Tannehill. Barkley has the best college team in the nation around him. You think he would do any different with these guys around him?
More difficult question though. Jonathan Martin. Someone said the guy is used to playing Left Tackle and that is what is causing his problems. We need to find that out! It would be our luck to trade him to a team that plays him at left tackle and he becomes all pro.
Maybe, since Jake Long is the VETERAN. Jake Long will be BIG ENOUGH to move to the right tackle and let Jonathan Martin play the left tackle? See if that helps.
REALLY!!!!! What this ALSO brings up is why didn't the foolish coaches, during the pre-season, play Jonathan Martin at left tackle with the first team but play him at right tackle with the second and third strings JUST TO OBSERVE whether the problem is the position or whether he simply is one of those rare people who is All American in college but cannot make the transition to the pros.
if moving from left to right tackle is that big of a thing, you think maybe you would have drafted a right tackle?
As far as Hartline, has he really shown anything more to warrant paying him more than a matthews or Hogan?I guess he mightbe better than the others, who knows
Barkley is in the league with Luck. Tannehill, who really knows, not a lot of experience
I don't think the issue for Martin is left vs. right, although it might compound the problem. The issue is that he is a rookie and he came in late. He is facing players that are a lot better than the ones he played in college. Apparently, the staff thinks he has great potential and it is just a matter of learning the position. He is a bright guy with skill so give him time to master his craft. If he still struggles around mid-season then I will start to be concerned.
The same goes for Tannehill. As far as I can tell, he seems like he is going to be really good. However, when you offensive line is giving up sacks and your receivers are dropping balls at a ridiculous rate, your stats are going to look bad. I like what I have seen out of Tannehill though.
Finally, the defense showed what they are capable of last night. Cam Wake makes a huge difference when he is in there and Vernon looks like his will complement his play. We know we are strong agains the run so I look for our secondary to improve weekly. This was a good test for them and they held up well.
The obvious cause for concern is the receivers. I simply don't understand how they can drop so many damn passes. Surely, a wet football didn't help though. I hope these guys get it together.
First, you are saying that Martin is strongest on his left, but since he is getting beat to the inside on the right side, then he should be weak with his left.
Also Jake is on the left and Martin is on the right.
East is West, left is right, up is down and black is white, inside out, wrong is right, it's back to front and I'm all up tight. Alright.
Without cheating, can anyone tell me where that is from?
Ken Wrote:
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> Our single biggest problem is at receiver, We
> don't have a WR on the outside that's any good and
> so far Fasano stinks.
>
We have problems all over this team. Lots of people want to blame WR because otherwise their favorite player would look bad.
> Martin wil be fine and Jerry has impoved too.
>
Nothing to see here, move along...
> Tannehill will be our guy but we have to find him
> some help...
This will be the rally cry of Tannehill fans as he proceeds to have a horrible season.
No, Jonathan Twilley, my philosophy is correct but I mixed up the two sides. Martin is playing right tackle for us NOW and he played left tackle for Stanford.
In an earlier post above in this same thread, I suggest that we move Jake Long to right tackle. because as a veteran, he will probably be more able to move and adapt.
I had it right in that earlier post but had it reversed here.
Martin is getting beat to the inside while playing right tackle for us, which means that actually his left side orientation in blocking is weak. The pressure is coming right into Tannehill's face instead of from the outside. That's why so many Jonathan Martin DEFENDERS ON THIS BOARD have argued that it is RT's fault for not simply "moving up into the pocket."
Since Martin played left tackle at Stanford and was protected Luck adequately against inside rushes, then his right side oreintation must be strong.
DolfanKing Wrote:
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> Ken Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Our single biggest problem is at receiver, We
> > don't have a WR on the outside that's any good
> and
> > so far Fasano stinks.
> >
>
> We have problems all over this team. Lots of
> people want to blame WR because otherwise their
> favorite player would look bad.
RE: I never said we don't have problems in other areas, just that WR is the biggest one. RT has, and is going to continue to make mistakes until the talent around him is good enough to help him out and he gains experience. I know it, and so does everyone else that's grounded in reality. However, the receivers continue to struggle and make mistakes that directly impact the ability of the QB and the entire offense to be productive. The team will be OK if we ever get the WR's sorted out.
>
>
> > Martin wil be fine and Jerry has impoved too.
> >
>
> Nothing to see here, move along...
>
>
> > Tannehill will be our guy but we have to find
> him
> > some help...
>
> This will be the rally cry of Tannehill fans as he
> proceeds to have a horrible season.
RE: and it should be, until we get better players or until the unit steps up and improves...if it ever does, in its current form. I don't care who we start at QB, he's going to struggle until we get productive WR and TE help. RT will be fine...he simply needs help and experience. One of those two he's going to get the hard way...the other, I fear, will have to wait for the off season.
Our O-Line will come together because we do have quality players now and we do have some quality depth.
The D will also be OK, because we also have quality players and once the starters return we'll once again be a solid unit.
Special teams is looking really good so far.
And the RB's are also a quality group...they will be effective (how much we'll be able to lean on them is the question) this year, and should be leaned on as our primary offensive weapon given the lack of quality WR's we have. Fasano stinks, Egnew might not make the team, struggles to catch and get open, and he can't block right now anyway. That leaves us with an also struggling Clay.
You don't move one of the best LT in the league because LT is the premium position on the line. Martin will learn how to play RT, lots of rookies make the adjustment. Bryan Bulaga did it in GB, struggled his first year and is now one of the best RT in the league. Expectations need to be lowered. Martin will get handled from time to time by some of the better pass rushers in the league, like Charles Johnson, but he should get better as he learns the speed of the NFL game, the moves of the opposing player, and gets comfortable on the right side.
Everyone needs to calm down a bit. I thought the game against Atlanta showed quite a few positives overall. The defense finally looked good and the 1st team didn't give up a TD against a good offensive team. Offensively, the WR struggled but we knew they would struggle a long time ago. I'm surprised most haven't come to grips with this already. We will probably pick up one or two guys on the waiver wire but expect to see some drops. The offense will struggle this year. We have a rookie QB, young RBs, completely new right side of the Oline, and not much explosiveness at WR or TE. Look for improvement but keep expectations in check. Enough with "the sky is falling" threads. There are positive things happening if you care to notice and it is only the preseason. The guys calling for 2-14 season just look moronic. We went 6-10 last year. Are you saying that BM and Langford are worth 4 wins? Are you saying Sporanos "excellent" coaching is worth 4 wins? Not to mention we have an easier schedule this year.
Oh one more thing, lay off Egnew. Yeah the guy looks bad but some of you are ready to cut him and call him a bust. That's asinine. Some guys take more time to adjust from college to pros, give him at least one whole season before calling bust. Seems to me that most of his problems are mental, maybe the light bulb goes on or maybe it doesn't. Not every guy is the next pro bowl rookie. In fact, 90% of guys aren't the next pro bowl rookie.
jlyell13 Wrote:
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> As far as long moving to right, what would you
> move a pro bowler because you blew your draft and
> drafted another left tackle!
Very good question as well as a very good point, jlyell. But the answer is that you try it to see if you can elevate the level of the play of the kid, hopefully, without suffering a drop off in the play of the all pro.
And if should have been done in the first three preseason games because if you try it and it does no good, then you make the trade prior to the start of the season that stuns the world.
Maybe you trade him to Indianapolis for one of their second stringers.
It is obvious that despite the words of the poster who calls himself THE Truth, Ireland and company are a bunch of no talent recognizing clowns.
They F'ed up with their pick of Martin but given his pedigree, they could hardly be blamed. Sticking WITH HIM just because they made a mistake in the first place is an unforgiveable and blameworthy SECOND mistake.
But now, we'll never know because Jake Long, nor any other starters, will be playing in game 4 preseason, so the only way they can impliment my plan is to try it after the season starts, which is REALLY problematic.
Bob, I realized what you had meant, but I was just point out the error. Having said that, I disagree with you. The left side is the blind side and you need your best tackle there. In theory, it is supposed to be easier to play right tackle so Martin is cutting his teeth there
and perhaps one day might become a left tackle. I believe the coaches have made the right decision and will let him take his licks early in hopes that he will perform better as the season progresses. As jlyell13 pointed out, he isn't as strong as he will eventually become, but for me I have noticed that it has been more of a question of balance. A couple of times, he seemed to be reaching and some other times he stammered in his back pedal, perhaps tripping over the runningback. Aside from the one bad play, it appears he did a much better job this game and I hope to see continued improvement. I believe, one day, he will be a strength of this team.
OMG can everyone calm down about J Martin? He is a good player learning a new position---a transition he will make but it will take a little time. He's actually played OK. He is the least of our problems and people are talking about trading him or moving Jake Long to RT and him to LT already? This guy was a great player in college and a projected top 15 draft pick heading in to the draft by some. I am not worried
________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.
They are my favorite band. Are you a fan? Since you are the one that got that right, I wonder is your name is a reference to the Who or is it a football hooligan thing?
Chyren, how did they F up? Are you calling Martin a bust already? He bounced back fairly well against ATL. I mean seriously, Martin struggled against one of the best pass rushers in the game, Charles Johnson, so he is a bust? He is adjusting to RT. Lots of rookie OT get flipped to the RT in the pros, it's not anything new. He will take time to get comfortable at the new position and learn the speed of the NFL game.
By the way, you would never flip a top 3 LT to RT, ever. Have you any idea how upset Jake Long would be over getting moved out of his position for a 2nd round rookie? He would be royally pissed and I would be right there with him. That's asinine. LT is the more important position so I'll keep my all pro player there and let my rookie learn RT.
The problem is that you expect Martin to be like Long was as a rookie. that's not happening. Long was a #1 overall pick and an absolute beast. Martin has talent but there will be bumps on the road as there is for most rookie OL, especially against top pass rushers. Long was an exception to the rule. Keep your expectations in check.
if you move Long to RT he will not be on the team next year. This is a contract year and RTs may WAY less than LTs in this league. He would not appreciate a move that would cut his value 40%. Quite a panic move based on a few bad plays out of Martin in his first preseason games of his career
________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.
He just need reps (as Turner said). he needs to develop the muscle memory needed to play on the right. It is too early to move him and no way in hell is anyone moving one of the leagues best LT to the right side. Tha being said...Long needs to pick it up a bit too as he has given up a few sacks.
Actually, berk and other guys, I would have shifted Jake Long to right tackle for the preseason to see how Martin handled it at left tackle. If he came back to Stanford form, then we would have a problem with easing Jake Long's ego. If not, we call up Indy and ask how would Andrew Luck like to be re-united with his left tackle.
Of course, we are dealing with Ireland so as far as thinking............
you don't spend a 2d round pick on a LT when our best player happens to be one and we have glaring needs at other positons. Martin was drafted to be a RT exclusively. In which case why play him at LT in the preseason and play our Pro Bowler out of position?
Anyway consider me unconcerned about MArtin, I think he will pull it together at RT. He better ASAP
________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.
Well, for that matter, berk. Why would you draft an college student who has only played LT and was just all-conference (not All-American) just because he played on the team with the most successful college QB, Andrew Luck.
But we did and we're there.
Maybe we ASSUMED he could be shifted to RT.
We assumed wrong.
But we should have conducted the experiment.
He sucks.
Pouncey was a rookie and didn't suck so you don't have to go to the example of Jake Long to view first round OLs that don't suck.
All you are saying berk, is that we screwed up once so why try to experiment.
If he did work out at LT and was in Stanford-form, then we would have a problem with Jake Long but now we'll never know, right?????
ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well, for that matter, berk. Why would you draft
> an college student who has only played LT and was
> just all-conference (not All-American) just
> because he played on the team with the most
> successful college QB, Andrew Luck.
>
> But we did and we're there.
>
> Maybe we ASSUMED he could be shifted to RT.
>
> We assumed wrong.
>
> But we should have conducted the experiment.
>
> He sucks.
>
> Pouncey was a rookie and didn't suck so you don't
> have to go to the example of Jake Long to view
> first round OLs that don't suck.
>
> All you are saying berk, is that we screwed up
> once so why try to experiment.
>
> If he did work out at LT and was in Stanford-form,
> then we would have a problem with Jake Long but
> now we'll never know, right?????
Give me a break chren. Almost all college lineman shift positions when they get to the NFL. OT move to OG, OG move to OC, LT to RT. The adjustment is not huge and patience is key. Pouncey did well but he was also a top 15 pick and didn't change positions, same as Jake Long. Martin was a second rounder, for goodness sakes manage your expectations. There are plenty of mistakes by the FO to be upset about but this is certainly not one of them. I'm with berk, i'm not worried at all about Martin. I'll be worried if he continues to struggle next year.
how can you completly give up on a guy who has played OK (not horrible not great) in his 3 weeks playing a new position? I just don't get it. Have some patience
________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.
Given our history with second rounders I can certainly see how you could jump to the conclusion he will be a bust. I am holding out hope that at least one of our last 5 2d rounders will pan out. I mean, law of averages, right?
________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.