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When all is said and done, will Jake Long be considered a Bust?

	Yes
	No

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We are starting another season with Jake Long on the sidelines. He admits to not having a good season last year. Since picking Long first overall, the team has done nothing significant.

There is no doubt Jake Long on his own is a good player. He was a pro-bowler a few years. But considering where he was picked (1st overall), his injury history, and what has transpired with the team since he got picked, one must ask, will he be remembered as a bust?

To put this into perspective here are the first overall 1998-2009:

1998 Peyton Manning Quarterback Indianapolis Colts
1999 Tim Couch Quarterback Cleveland Browns
2000 Courtney Brown Defensive end Cleveland Browns
2001 Michael Vick Quarterback Atlanta Falcons
2002 David Carr Quarterback Houston Texans
2003 Carson Palmer Quarterback Cincinnati Bengals
2004 Eli Manning Quarterback (traded to the New York Giants)
2005 Alex Smith Quarterback San Francisco 49ers
2006 Mario Williams Defensive end Houston Texans
2007 JaMarcus Russell Quarterback Oakland Raiders
2008 Jake Long Offensive Tackle Miami Dolphins
2009 Matthew Stafford Quarterback Detroit Lions



Some of these players are clearly busts:
Tim Couch, David Carr, Courtney Brown, JaMarcus Russel.

Then some players are clearly not busts:
Manning x 2, Vick, Palmer, Stafford. All brought their teams to playoffs within three years, and all are still leaders on their respective teams. One could make an argument against Vick because of his doggy troubles, but no one can deny his talent as an NFL player.

Ales Smith and Mario Williams:
It took a while for the Niners and Texans to get to the playoffs after Alex Smith and Mario Williams picks, but both players are leaders on teams now considered front runners in their respective conferences. Hard to call them busts.

Then there Jake Long. Is he more like Courtney Brown - clearly a talent but injury prone and never able to reach full potential? Or is he going to be a leader when/if this team goes to the playoffs?

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Miami Dolphins. Always Perfect.

No he isn't a bust, but it would be nice if he could play without something ailing him for a change.

certainly not a bust

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

Crowder52 Wrote:
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> I dont think a guy who has been selected to the
> probowl every year including his rookie year, will
> ever be considered a bust... Long hasnt missed all
> that many games either... 2 or 3 in 4 years. A
> bust is Vernon Gholston, who was picked #5 overall
> by the Jets the same year.... Clearly a huge
> difference in what was accomplished on the field.
> One guy a bust another guy a constant
> probowler.... All players deal with injuries...
> Jake Long has started in 62 out of 64 possible
> games during his career, but people act like he is
> out for multiple seasons...


Yes, not ignoring that he starts.

But the question is - is he a bust in the context of first overall?

Look at the other first overall picks that aren't considered busts. Those players affected a change that brought their respective teams to playoffs.

What has Jake Long done to bring this team to the playoffs? So far, he has not made that kind of impact.

And with all his various injuries and aliments that limit his capabilities week to week, will he ever have that kind of impact?

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Miami Dolphins. Always Perfect.

DolfanKing Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Crowder52 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I dont think a guy who has been selected to the
> > probowl every year including his rookie year,
> will
> > ever be considered a bust... Long hasnt missed
> all
> > that many games either... 2 or 3 in 4 years. A
> > bust is Vernon Gholston, who was picked #5
> overall
> > by the Jets the same year.... Clearly a huge
> > difference in what was accomplished on the
> field.
> > One guy a bust another guy a constant
> > probowler.... All players deal with injuries...
>
> > Jake Long has started in 62 out of 64 possible
> > games during his career, but people act like he
> is
> > out for multiple seasons...
>
>
> Yes, not ignoring that he starts.
>
> But the question is - is he a bust in the context
> of first overall?
>
> Look at the other first overall picks that aren't
> considered busts. Those players affected a change
> that brought their respective teams to playoffs.
>
> What has Jake Long done to bring this team to the
> playoffs? So far, he has not made that kind of
> impact.
>
> And with all his various injuries and aliments
> that limit his capabilities week to week, will he
> ever have that kind of impact?

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An OLman can't make that type of impact. He can only help solidify the line and make sure his QB doesn't get killed.

Jake Long was a good pick, despite the argument that Miami should have chosen Matt Ryan.

Are you forgetting, Jake Long brought his team to the play offs his rookie year. I dont think you can hold it against Long, that the players around him havent been very good... Mario Williams never lead his team to a play off win? He was out all last year, and the Texans went farther with out him, and Schaub...lol...
Who would Mathew Stafford be without Megatron, and Suh for that matter. That is three top 3 picks... Was Megatron a bust before the rest of the team was built? Alex Smith was a bust before Harbuagh and this one year? Was that on Smith, who rose the team to greatness, after 5 years of failure... I dont think you can ignore the variables that affect a teams success to put that on a player as being a bust, because of those variable, which are entirely beyound his control....

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/03/2012 10:03AM by Crowder52.

Crowder has said it all for me.

Also, Mario William and Stafford have been hurt more then Long anyway you want to look at it, but you seem to give them a pass for their injuries and criticize Long for less..

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/03/2012 09:58AM by Crowder52.

By DolfanClowns rationale....Dan Marino was a bust also

Crowder52 Wrote:
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> Also, Mario William and Stafford have been hurt
> more then Long anyway you want to look at it, but
> you seem to give them a pass for their injuries
> and criticize Long for less..


First, I never said that Long was a bust. I voted "NO".

But the question needs to be asked. He is the only #1 pick on that list where the jury is still out. His presence hasn't exactly lifted the play of the offense, or the offensive line. Yet he is one of the highest paid players (if not the highest paid) on the team.

And so, the question is legit. All the other #1 picks - we know where they are going and where their teams are going. Long, not so much.

I will say this - if Long does end up considered a "bust" it will reflect more on Parcells than Ireland or Long.

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Miami Dolphins. Always Perfect.

Again , another Negative Tinged Thread .

Do you sit around all day in a dark room lighting matches just thinking of doom and gloom? Seriously Bro, they make medication for it. Even a patch. Get help.

I got no problems with u asking the question, I was just telling you why I didnt think so, somethings that were contradictory about other players and your suggested assesments.. The question which you were kind of asking, Can a play be considered a bust, if his team hasnt flourished. I dont think so...

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I got no problems with u asking the question, I
> was just telling you why I didnt think so,
> somethings that were contradictory about other
> players and your suggested assesments.. The
> question which you were kind of asking, Can a play
> be considered a bust, if his team hasnt
> flourished. I dont think so...


Well, if it was a first overall pick and that pick didn't have a significant impact in playoff runs, then I think the player can be considered a bust even if individually they play well.

The great players make everyone around them better. It remains to be seen if Jake Long does that.

As for Stafford and Williams, it is clear that they make players around them better. Stafford makes an under achieving WR corp a scary WR corp. Williams gives whoever plays opposite him a single team.

I've yet to see Jake Long make the O-line as a whole better. Its not as if the other side of the line is better because Jake Long pancakes the DE on his side.

Jake Long may not be a bust, but the pick may have been wasted.

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Miami Dolphins. Always Perfect.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/03/2012 11:19AM by DolfanKing.

there are more than just 2 possibilities for a player (bust and hall of famer who takes team to super bowl). Jake is a great player, by no stretch can he be considered a "bust." It's a completely specious question.
what DK is getting at I think is whether we should've taken him at #1 overall, when Matt Ryan was available. The answer is probably no, but that doesn't make Jake a bust. "Bust" top-2 OL are Tony Manderich and Robert Gallery. Is Jake Long anything like them? No.

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

A LT is suppose to be a rock on the blindside of the QB and be solid on his side in the run game. He cant polish a turd into a diamond. He cant make a reciever get open, he cant make a QB make the right read. He cant help the WR,RB,TE, catch the ball. He cant make the running back hold onto the ball. He cant help the QB not throw a bad pass.. He cant insure the Coach had the right offensive game plan. He cant make sure the cordinator calls the right play. He cant make sure the GM drafts well, handles the cap properly and signs FA that will flourish... But without him Tannehill, proably wouldnt have a chance in hell at succeeding...

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/03/2012 11:23AM by Crowder52.

berkeley223 Wrote:
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> there are more than just 2 possibilities for a
> player (bust and hall of famer who takes team to
> super bowl). Jake is a great player, by no stretch
> can he be considered a "bust." It's a completely
> specious question.
> what DK is getting at I think is whether we
> should've taken him at #1 overall, when Matt Ryan
> was available. The answer is probably no, but that
> doesn't make Jake a bust. "Bust" top-2 OL are Tony
> Manderich and Robert Gallery. Is Jake Long
> anything like them? No.

Maybe a better question would be - was Jake Long worth a #1 overall?

I think if a player falls far short of the expectations of his draft position, then the b-word comes into play. I think some may disagree, but this is more a question of semantics. When it comes to first overall, it is very difficult right now to classify Jake Long as a success.

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Miami Dolphins. Always Perfect.

Jake Long has been one of the top LT in the game during his career, since he was drafted. What else can you expect of him, to throw TD's?

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A LT is suppose to be a rock on the blindside of
> the QB and be solid on his side in the run game.
> He cant polish a turd into a diamond. He cant make
> a reciever get open, he cant make a QB make the
> right read. He cant help the WR,RB,TE, catch the
> ball. He cant make the running back hold onto the
> ball. He cant help the QB not throw a bad pass..
> He cant insure the Coach had the right offensive
> game plan. He cant make sure the coach calls the
> right play. He cant make sure the GM drafts well,
> handle the cap properly and signs FA that will
> flourish... But without him Tannehill, proably
> wouldnt have a chance in hell at succeeding...


Henne didn't exactly succeed.

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Miami Dolphins. Always Perfect.

berkeley223 Wrote:
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> that is a better Q. the answer is if you have a
> potential franchise QB available, you take him at
> #1, not another position. but Long has not "fall
> far short of the expectations of his draft
> position." Dude has made the Pro Bowl every year.


Compared to other successful first round picks, he hasn't done as much. Compared the the outright busts - he has done more.

So he the worst of the best?

I think the Jury is still out.

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Miami Dolphins. Always Perfect.

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> DolfanKing Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > Henne didn't exactly succeed.
>
> exactly but that is because Jake Long, can not
>
> make
> > a reciever get open, he cant make a QB make the
>
> > right read. He cant help the WR,RB,TE, catch the
>
> > ball. He cant make the running back hold onto
> the
> > ball. He cant help the QB not throw a bad pass..
>
> > He cant insure the Coach had the right offensive
>
> > game plan. He cant make sure the coach calls the
>
> > right play
>


And yet Stafford made a mediocre Receiving corp stellar overnight.

And Mario Williams makes the Texas D-Line fearsome by just being on the field.

Those two players make their teams a threat simply by stepping on the field. Jake Long does not do that.

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Miami Dolphins. Always Perfect.

please name me an OL who makes the OL "fearsome" by himself or make a mediocre receiving corp stellar? By nature of the position an OL can't do that, he can only block his man. which is why it is stupid we keep spending super high picks on the position instead of play making positions

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

DolfanKing Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> And yet Stafford made a mediocre Receiving corp
> stellar overnight.
>
> And Mario Williams makes the Texas D-Line fearsome
> by just being on the field.
>
> Those two players make their teams a threat simply
> by stepping on the field. Jake Long does not do
> that.


Come on really, Ok, Stafford has Megatron, the number 1 WR in the entire NFL, a #2 overall draft pick, having signed the highest contract in NFL history this offseason. The fact he is triple covered, probably helps out the other WR's get open a bit. Without Megatron, nobody on that offense looks good, including Stafford. Not to mention Stafford has missed 19 games from injuries in his short 3 year career.

Mario Williams, never lead his team to the play offs. His defense was so fearsome, went to the playoffs, without him. In the last 2 years. He has missed 14 games due to injury has never been part of leading his team to nor playing in a playoff game. Mario was so threatening, his team succeeded without him and his team choose not to resign him..

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

excellent response crowder

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

Was Tony Boseli a bust? 2nd overall pick. Played only 6 years. 5 PB's. Misses 8 games thru 6 years. Missed 7 games in his first 3 years.

Jake Long played 4 years and 4 PB's. Missed two games last year and that was it for his career. Can't knock a guy because he gets injured and still plays thru it. Toughness.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

berkeley223 Wrote:
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> please name me an OL who makes the OL "fearsome"
> by himself or make a mediocre receiving corp
> stellar? By nature of the position an OL can't do
> that, he can only block his man. which is why it
> is stupid we keep spending super high picks on the
> position instead of play making positions


Exactly.

I'll repeat, if he is labeled a "bust", this reflects on Parcells, not Long.

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Miami Dolphins. Always Perfect.

but you are missing the point. drafting a great OL who does not make the team better is not the same as drafting a bust. it is just drafting the wrong position with the #1 overall pick. which is what the idiots running the team did.

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> but you are missing the point. drafting a great OL
> who does not make the team better is not the same
> as drafting a bust. it is just drafting the wrong
> position with the #1 overall pick. which is what
> the idiots running the team did.


The draft position has everything to do with being labeled a bust.

If David Carr were drafted in the second round, would he have been considered a bust? I don't think so.

The expectations of a first overall pick are that they will make the team markedly better. If we hadn't have picked Jake Long, you have to ask how much worse this team would be. I don't think - at this point in time - the results would have been that much worse.

We have a first overall pick who, while considered one of the best at his position, is not necessarily making this team markedly better. When compared to many #1 overall picks, that is not up to par for first overall picks.

So, I think the question is valid - if the player is not up to par with his draft position, is he a "bust"?

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Miami Dolphins. Always Perfect.