Whooptie F'ing dooo! Here we go again. I hate. Why can't we just start fresh???? I hope they don't do this I can't take another AJ Feely mess

Wouldn't Flynn actually be starting fresh?

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

Well....I guess we could take Tannehill #9 overall.

Or we could just pickup a QB in the 2nd....just like we did Chad Henne and Pat White.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

I love how 1 backup QB failed for us, so now ALL backup QBs are destined to fail as well. Funny how that works.

Jay Fiedler was no peach. Back up for Jax

AJ Feely - terrible. Back up for Philly

+ Trent Green, who wasn't back up his whole career but his career was over when we got him.

Just saying this is bullshit.

Talk about faulty logic?

Seriously, we had the OPPORTUNITY to win the Super Bowl THIS YEAR if we had made the right decisions over the past 5-7 years.

That’s a fact. Also, just because you get stung by a wasp while walking past a grapefruit tree doesn’t mean all grapefruit trees should be chopped down.

Shit happens and mistakes are made in an infinite number of ways. And X doesn’t always equal X. Every grapefruit tree isn’t the same. And Matt Flynn isn’t AJ Feely or Jay Fiedler. And furthermore, every QB taken in R1 isn’t Payton Manning or Dan Marino. And so forth and so on.

BNF.

What's your solution then?

I've described my opinion on these matters in a number of other threads...

But quite simply:

Don't try to undo all f**kups over the past 4-10 years with a move of desperation - hence don't sell the farm for RGIII, RGV or whoever.

Don't throw Matt Moore in the trash because the kid has some legit NFL chops. And more important, if Philbin is really great O minded coach, give the kid a chance to grow and evolve. And give him the pieces he needs to be successful = OL and more weapons

But yea, start drafting and developing college QB prospects and build from within. Stop chasing the mirage of a miracle fix.

As far as Flynn, we have to trust Philbin on this one. If (???) he believes Flynn is ready to make his mark as a legit NFL QB, and has the core skill set and intelligence to be a winning NFL QB, then make a serious play - because it won't burn draft capital. Use the assets as per the above - to maximize the QB's success potential.

On the other hand, if Philbin isn't sold on Flynn, revert to the previously mentioned option, and KEEP DRAFTING quality QB talent until you find the solution.

End of story. Yet I could go on and on...

BNF.

No big stink, you and I agree on this subject, that question was for GnR.....baby

THe only reason Flynn makes sense is because he knows the offense... Would I want to bet the franchise on a guy who has only played 2 games, and expect him to be a franchise QB.Hell no.. GNR BB is right that it sounds like Jay Feely.. A guy who had a couple of great games and that is it... And we risked our franchise's success on that.... I dont want to do it again...
However, where I disagree, is that our new coach isnt going to want to risk his tenure on Flynn, unless he is absolutely positive about his likelihood of being a franchise QB.. So if we do get him, I would have to have a wait and see approach... It would let me know early on if Philbin is brilliant or a fool..

I'm worried Flynn could be the same as Moore...but coming from a winning team with a strong offense. Moore played crappy on a crappy team (Carolina), then played good on a good team (Phins). Flynn played great on a great team (G. Could a lot of this be the team rather than the player?

On the other hand, Peyton Manning has played GREAT on a CRAPPY team for years. THAT guy is the real deal. Flynn is just a gamble.

You're right. Flynn is a gamble, but Moore is a backup. We know that. If Moore is our #1 guy next season.....we will be no better that 6-10.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

Aqua&Orange Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You're right. Flynn is a gamble, but Moore is a
> backup. We know that. If Moore is our #1 guy next
> season.....we will be no better that 6-10.

I'm not sure how you can definitively say that. Put Moore in Green Bay's system and he may look just like Flynn. Bring Green Bay's system here and Moore could make some noise.

Lol....I promise Moore looks the same in any system.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

I think a reality check is in order…

There are VERY FEW Marino’s, or Peyton Manning’s – dudes that can compete in the NFL with inferior talent and literally will their team to win.

Take the Lady in NE, that POS athlete would have been out of the league if he had landed in a “bad situation,” such as the deal Archie Manning had throughout his career. On the other hand, Archie Manning would have multiple Super Bowls if he played for a guy like Bill Walsh. In fact Archie Manning would have made Montana look stupid in the same system.

And of course, resurrection projects like Young, or Williams, or Plunket, demonstrated the difference between being a “crappy player” on a shit team and then being a really good player on a great team. So stop the absolutes. The QB is at the mercy of the coaching staff, the system, the play-calling, and most important, the surrounding cast.

To say that any one player – especially a coitusback, will look the same in any system, with any surrounding cast, et cetera is nonsense

>>> unless the player clearly demonstrates he doesn’t have the basic skill-set and NFL mind to function in the league!

Is that what some of you think about Moore?

If so, then make your point and stand by it. In other words, in your opinion Moore is a loser like Henne, and his NFL career is dead in the water. So cut the garbage loose and move on.

But if you want to hedge your bet at all, then you must sense there’s “something” the kid has that’s worth working with – and we should see what Philbin and Sherman and whoever else can do with his talents. And the kid does have some legit talents IMO.

We all know football is still the ultimate team game. You don’t win with one player. But yea, the QB is preeminent in the NFL. Right now IMO we have one on the roster worth developing. We need another one – and that means (a) draft some quality prospects and (b) bring one in via FA if Philbin and Sherman believe the kid can make a difference.

Step one. Just do IT! And shut up!

BNF.

Again, nobody in the FO believes in Matt Moore, why should we?

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

If that's the case he'll be gone. But I don't believe that's 100% certain. Right now they're ringing a lot of bells and seeing who responds to the call - that's part of the impression I'm getting.

But I haven't heard Philbin's assessment of Moore yet. Have you? But Philbin did point out he does not believe in the ONE PLAYER equation. I take that at face value and project the fact he will (a) work with what we have while at the same time (b) bring in more QB talent for competition and/or development.

But...there are a number of NFL dudes I've heard from that believe Matt Moore has some legit upside and showed a lot of promise this past season. So IMO his NFL career is obviously on an upward arc.

Question is: how far can he progress with (a) the right cast surrounding him and (b) the right system and coaching?

The partial answer has to be: he'll be given his legit opportunity BUT we will also bring in additional talent and continue to upgrade the position either through player development or new talent acquisition. I would be shocked if this is not our plan - because IMO it's the smart approach and gives us more options and better flexibility to tweek the roster as a whole, and not get anal about one position.

My .02

I understand your stance.

But, I really feel that Ross, Ireland, and Philbin want a different QB. They are not comfortable with Moore.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

"Seriously, we had the OPPORTUNITY to win the Super Bowl THIS YEAR if we had made the right decisions over the past 5-7 years.
That’s a fact."
Oh, for... No, that's an OPINION. It boggles my mind that some people can't tell the difference between the two.

Rick

Do you know what the word "opportunity" means?

And just reflect a moment on ALL THE TALENT we passed on during that period. The best QB in the league, the best DE's, a ton of great OL, a ton of WR's, DB's, LB's and of course Scandinavian Cheerleaders.

That's a FACT. K?

Aqua&Orange Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I understand your stance.
>
> But, I really feel that Ross, Ireland, and Philbin
> want a different QB. They are not comfortable with
> Moore.


You may be right. But I also think they're playing the PR game a bit, which of course is pandering to the fans.

That's part of my concern, If Ross is a l'il antsy about the fan-base erosion and empty seats, he may act out of desperation in an attempt to solve the sins of the past.

That could lead to the proverbial "throwing out the Baby T leftovers with the bath water."

I mean, EWW!

All QB's (and players) are a gamble...we run EXACTLY the same risk by drafting Luck, Griffin, Tannehill, Foles, etc. as we would by staying with Moore or signing Fynn.

There are no guarantees and no one knows how any of them will turn out for us. All we can do is to make a decision that makes us feel better about that decision.

If there were any real way of knowing who would be great vs who wouldn't then chat boards such as this would have a lot less to discuss. Scouts, coaches and GM's would all be making much , much less money...because the jobs would be MUCH easier.

BigNastyFish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think a reality check is in order…
>
> There are VERY FEW Marino’s, or Peyton
> Manning’s – dudes that can compete in the NFL
> with inferior talent and literally will their team
> to win.
>
> Take the Lady in NE, that POS athlete would have
> been out of the league if he had landed in a
> “bad situation,” such as the deal Archie
> Manning had throughout his career. On the other
> hand, Archie Manning would have multiple Super
> Bowls if he played for a guy like Bill Walsh. In
> fact Archie Manning would have made Montana look
> stupid in the same system.
>
> And of course, resurrection projects like Young,
> or Williams, or Plunket, demonstrated the
> difference between being a “crappy player” on
> a shit team and then being a really good player on
> a great team. So stop the absolutes. The QB is at
> the mercy of the coaching staff, the system, the
> play-calling, and most important, the surrounding
> cast.
>
> To say that any one player – especially a
> coitusback, will look the same in any system, with
> any surrounding cast, et cetera is nonsense
>
> >>> unless the player clearly demonstrates he
> doesn’t have the basic skill-set and NFL mind to
> function in the league!
>
> Is that what some of you think about Moore?
>
> If so, then make your point and stand by it. In
> other words, in your opinion Moore is a loser like
> Henne, and his NFL career is dead in the water. So
> cut the garbage loose and move on.
>
> But if you want to hedge your bet at all, then you
> must sense there’s “something” the kid has
> that’s worth working with – and we should see
> what Philbin and Sherman and whoever else can do
> with his talents. And the kid does have some legit
> talents IMO.
>
> We all know football is still the ultimate team
> game. You don’t win with one player. But yea,
> the QB is preeminent in the NFL. Right now IMO we
> have one on the roster worth developing. We need
> another one – and that means (a) draft some
> quality prospects and (b) bring one in via FA if
> Philbin and Sherman believe the kid can make a
> difference.
>
> Step one. Just do IT! And shut up!
>
> BNF.

This post should be a sticky. I don't agree with all of it. Like for instance I don't think Henne was that bad. I think he was a follower who followed Pied Pipers into the slaughterhouse and I think Moore refused to follow them and that's why Moore does not look as bad. Also I disagree that Tom Brady is a POS or a lady. He is a good brains quarterback in the mold of Bob Griese with a superior mind. I hate the Patriots but I have nothing but respect for Tom Brady.

Now, the reason I think this post should be a sticky. It should be a sticky because of its realistic view on just how much a quarterback can and cannot do for a team and how important the system in which the quarterback is playing counts and above all how football is the ultimate "team" sport.

The value of that part of the post is as a warning to all the "quarterback is everything" people. This chatboard has far too many of them.

People are so desperate for a quarterback and so willing to praise as a Newborn King someone like Matt Flynn who is totally untested that when he finally is thrown into the lake and does not walk on water like Jesus, he will be immediately run out of town on a rail with phrases like, "You suck."

Well, what evidence do we have now that he DOESN'T SUCK? None. We don't have any evidence that he does suck either. We simply have no evidence. And without evidence, there can be no really truly intelligent decision made.

The one true point is that Philbin's move with respect to Flynn will be key. Philbin would hardly risk his future NFL career on a guy that he thinks sucks.

If Philbin is trying for RGIII or Luck OR EVEN PEYTON, that should tell you something about Matt Flynn.

Let other suckers willing to risk their franchise on a couple of good games bite that worm at the end of the hook on the fishing line.

Improve the OL, D & WR/TE positions and Moore and Flynn or Tannehill are worth a look

Target

DL Coples, brockers, Upshaw, Crick, Curry, Taamu, or Kendall Reyes


LB Vontaze Burfict

TE Allen, Fleener or Orson Charles

WR Jeff Fuller Devier Posey, Ryan broyles, Mcnutt, Tommy Streeter. or Ty Hilton

OL Zebrie Sanders. Andy Datko, Levy Adcock, Kevin Zeitler

RB bernard Pierce, Dan Herron, or Ron Hillman

S George lloka, Blake Gideon, or Antonio allen

QB Weeden, Keenum, Osweiler, Thomas in late rounds