I've repressed that season to the degree that it's hard to recall specifics but in comparing whether we are better off now after 4 years of parcells vs then, here is what I think

QB:
big time problem in 2007, we went thru Trent Green, Cleo Lemon, John Beck.
today, we have chad henne (injured, expiring contract), matt moore and JP Lossman. I don't think we are any better off and our QB next season isn't on roster yet.

Verdict: not better off. And we had 4 years of 1st rounders including #1 overall to fix the problem. QB of present and future not on roster. FAIL

RB:
2007: we had Ronnie Brown, who had his best year before getting hurt. Jesse Chapman was pretty decent. After injuries we had to play guys like Samkon Gado, who did pretty well actually.

2011: injury prone Dan Thomas is promising, but not as good as RBrown in 2007. Bush is misused and not a factor. Otherwise we got nothing. VERDICT: better in 2007. FAIL

WR:
2007: can't even remember who we had.
2011: marshall, bess, hartline, etc. VERDICT: better off now, but no superstar in the bunch---and a lot of $$ tied up in Marshall. Meanwhile we passed on WRs like Nicks. So while we are better off, I won't say we are in good shape at all. VERDICT: FAIL

OL:
2007: can't remember who we had, but it was pretty bad then. Samson Satele, Vernon Cary, etc.
2011: after tons of draft picks and money, we have to show for it jake Long, mike pouncey, Incognito, and glaring holes and no depth. VERDICT: FAIL, given the resources put in and the fact that our OL still isn't any good.


OK this made me sick. Anyone want to add to the above or take the D?

Top-to-bottom: FAIL.

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"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

By your logic, Berk, do you think it could be argued that the fact that we are not better off means it's useless to hope for the worst record in the league in exchange for a first round pick?

I mean you made a pretty good case that we're not better off since the last time we finished with the worst record and drew the first pick in the draft (Long).

whether intentional or not, this sounds like an argument against tanking the season.

no, if we get the #1 pick and Luck, many of these problems will be glossed over---RBs and WRs will be better with a good Qb in there. Had we taken Ryan instead of long #1 we'd be better than where we are now.

my point was that Parcells and co took over a mess of a team, and despite having very high draft picks most years, 4 years later we are not any better off than we were then.

IMO- there is a big difference, between 2007 and before and the last 4 years.... And something that can not be knocked... that is the 1st rd picks IMO.. Jake Long, Vontae Davis, Jared odrick and Mike Pouncey, are all top tier picks and players, and nothing to knock. Then you would have to give props on starks, the devlopment of SOlia. Undrafted FA, Davone bess. SIgning of Canadian Player, Cameron Wake. I also think young players like Jimmy WIlson, and Nolan Carroll, and Reshad jones have value and talent especially from where they were drafted... I also think Chad Henne is a dececent QB and better then anything we have had since Marino and the one year of Pennington...
Saban , Wanny and Cam, brought us much worse talent then this Regime, and the reason I can say that is mainly on the 1st rd pick... There are other players like Misi,Hartline,etc that still have some proven but have not shown to not be an assett or bad by any means.. I also think Fasano is a top TE, who is versatile enough to both block and catch... Just my opinion... and taking the d for Berk to debate..



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/27/2011 01:25PM by Crowder52.

crowder I like your optimism. we do have some decent players out of the first round, but really, outside of long I don't see a pro bowler in the bunch (verdict still out on pouncey). When you draft #1 overall, #15 overall, #12 overall (trade down), and 20 something, one drafted pro bowler is simply no good enough.

only other pro bowler they added in 4 years is Wake. Hell even Wanny signed Ogunleya as a FA and he went to the pro bowl.

btw I hope you don't stop posting, outside of you and sometimes mark there is no one sticking up for the team! we need other viewpoints around here. this place has gotten so depressing!

I say, compare it to 2004 instead. I think the similarities are even closer.

When building a high performance engine, you can buy all of the most expensive,blue printed, elite parts money can buy. But until those parts are put together properly, tested and tuned, you just have bunch of expensive paper weights, in more ways then one. If all you have is distractions putting the pieces together and problems, you have no chance to tune, balance and sync the motor. You just have a bunch of xpensive parts jumbled together in something that resembles a motor and barely runs... So how to do you fix that motor? Throw away all the expensive high performance parts? Blame the parts for failing...
WIth all of the distractions this offseason and around the franchise, shortened practice schedules, etc.... We never got a chance to put togther the motor properly this season, let alone tune it...And now people believe starting over a process, we havent been able to pull off in years, is somehow gonna solve it.... The optimist has serious skepticism....

It all starts with a QB. You have a terrible QB in this league (Chad Henne) your team will be terrible.

Guys, just look at the best teams in this league...what do they all have in common?? A good QB.

We have always got the hottest Coaching name available....Jimmy Johnson, Wannstedte, Nick Saban, Cameron, Bill Parcells...but all have failed...Why? Because we havent had a QB since Dan.

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"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

camoron and wanny the were "hottest coaching name available"? no way

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> camoron and wanny the were "hottest coaching name
> available"? no way


&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
Cameron was close. But go ahead and pick through hairs, Berkley....the rest of the coaches were. Cant argue that.

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"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

Aqua&Orange Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> berkeley223 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > camoron and wanny the were "hottest coaching
> name
> > available"? no way
>
>
> &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
> Cameron was close. But go ahead and pick through
> hairs, Berkley....the rest of the coaches were.
> Cant argue that.

Wanny was NOT a hot commodity at HC after failing miserably in Chicago. In fact, Chicago fans were laughing hysterically when we promoted him to HC.

monte, you said it all

I agree with Monte, only because I used to work with a Chicago Bears fan who indeed laughed his ass off when we hired Wanny.

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> crowder I like your optimism. we do have some
> decent players out of the first round, but really,
> outside of long I don't see a pro bowler in the
> bunch (verdict still out on pouncey). When you
> draft #1 overall, #15 overall, #12 overall (trade
> down), and 20 something, one drafted pro bowler is
> simply no good enough.
>
> only other pro bowler they added in 4 years is
> Wake. Hell even Wanny signed Ogunleya as a FA and
> he went to the pro bowl.
>
> btw I hope you don't stop posting, outside of you
> and sometimes mark there is no one sticking up for
> the team! we need other viewpoints around here.
> this place has gotten so depressing!


Thanks,
But IMO, I believe Vontae Davis will be a probowler and played at the level pre hamstring injury. Odrick, hasnt played much becasue of his rookie year, injury and this year he has been a bright spot with real promise IMO. Pouncey is gonna be up there as Probowl in the future for sure, hell his twin brother made it his rookie year

I think A&O hits the nail on the head...In the NFL, NO QB = NO Success PERIOD. But to Berkley's point, how many times over the last decade or so have we had a chance to fix that with a first round pick and and several regimes have stubbornly REFUSED to take a QB high in the first round?

As a matter of fact going back to Shula's last few years our high round picks have all seemed to be ill advised attempts to fill some perceived 'need' (except QB of course). Ted Ginn, Jamar Fletcher, John Avery, Yatil Green, Sammie Smith, Billy Milner, Lorenzo Hampton...Jeez. 2008 was our first overall #1 pick since 1966 and we pick Jake Long? A good player yes, a first rounder yes, #1 overall? Ehhh. I guarantee Matt Ryan would have had more positive impact on this team.

Wannstedte sucked. We all know that.

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"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"