To get off the subjects of "White QB's who try to act black" and "Lockoutgate 2011" for a while, I was wondering how bad of shape our O-line is actually in?

L.T. - J Long, enough said
L.G. - R Incognito? Much needed draft choice?
C. - R Incognito? Much needed draft choice?
R.G. - J. Jerry? Give the kid another year to jell or draft another?
R.T. - V Carey

Is this unit as bad as everyone makes us out to be? Obviously Incognito and Jerry are the wild cards, if you can trust those two then all we really need for the starters is 1 position (LG/C). Is Incog trustworthy as a starting Center? Thoughts?

I think Carey is still a question. He seemed out of shape, and slow last year, as well as he seemed to have some problem with his footwork. For what he makes that analysis doesnt cut it. So Carey needs to show he is not going to play like last year, if you want to pencil him at RT in my book.
In my book, Incognito, and Jerry and Carey, are all in the same book, When given the chance they all need to play better then last year as a unit and individually

I have high hopes for Jerry, and Long is the only guarantee on the oline at this point before the draft and FA IMHO

wow, when you see it written out like that, the line looks horrible.
but remember we've got garner coming back who played well before and can likely start. Carey to me is below average and has been for some time. I think this team could use a first round caliber G, C, or RT. Plus we have zero depth at T, which has been the case for awhile. I haven't given up on Jerry---hopefully he starts and plays well and does not follow in the footsteps of our recent bust G draftees (Murphy, Thomas (who I still think is pretty good), Toledo, etc).

I don't see any future pro bowl OL in this draft, unfortunately. Given all of the picks we've thrown at the OL, and our big time needs elsewhere, I don't want to spend our first rounder on "adequate," I want great.

We need an anchor. We need a young stud Center to lead our line for the next 10 years.

The Center is the "QB" of the O-line, making all the calls.

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"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

I agree, A&O, we need a beast at Center,

2 questions then, who's the dominate center on our radar and does that mean Incog is or starting LG or a backup?

I have no clue if there really is a dominant Center available for us.

But it needs to be a priority.

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"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

Pouncey is the safe pick.

Drafting Pouncey would be my second choice after drafting Ingram. I don't mean to start a fight with the Pouncey people by saying that but if this were next year and Ingram was already on our team and the rest of this year's draft pool was available, I'd say "DRAFT POUNCEY!"

Incog is a Center, he is big mauling, and bad in space.

He has been desperatly playing out of position his entire career.

When he started that one game for us as center I think our rushing stat's where over 5 yards a carry.

He will be beast for Center if he is going to compete there.

I want to see Berger try out LG, he is 6'5 and what 305? I think he could pull, and since he played alot of center I think he is more than capable to cary his own one on one at LG, and quick enough to be a affective pulling guard.

My problem is RG, AND RT!!!! Both sucked pretty hard.

We have Garner comming back, which no doubt he will be winning a starting job at one of the G position's.


Still no depth means we need to draft a stud G.C and RT this year within the first 4 rounds.

The line is worse than most make it out to be. It is our single biggest problem on offense. The run blocking is atrocious, and the entire of the line allows way too much pressure on passing plays.

Cumulative grades from profootballfocus.com

Plays at Tackle
Long +24.3
Carey -1.0
McQuistan -3.9
Murtha -3.9

Plays at Guard
Incognito +6.5
Jerry -7.7
McQuistan -9.5

Plays at Center
Berger +1.3
Incognito -2.4

Incognito had played RG his whole pro career until last season. That's where he belongs. It is the easiest position to play on the line. The RG rarely pulls, and is rarely matched up with a good pass rusher. This is one reason why Jerry's play was so alarming. If he is so bad at the easiest position on the line, what hope is there for him? We need Vernon Carey to be healthy. And we desperately need a LG and C. I think they will play Incognito at C because it is such a thin draft class at the position.

I think that if we stay at #15, we will look to draft Costanzo or Carimi. While both ar tackles, both can play guard. You can plug one of them in at LG, and if Carey continues to struggle with injuries, you have an option to replace him long term.

Jerry played well even at LG initially, then he had that weird illness, where he wasnt even allowed at the facility for over a month. Then when he came back, he never played like he did before the undisclosed illness. That was odd, and I am not sure what to say. Other then he never got back into playing shaped after whatever sickness he had.

Garner is back and played well at LG but Sparano views him as a T.

Jerry is striclty a RG and can only play one position. He was drafted too high to just play RG as he has not been good for whatever reason.

Incognito is good in the running game but not very good in pass protection but could get better.

Carey has not lived up to his contract.

Berger is a backup.

I think PF2 is right. We need to add a true LG in FA. The line could work with one player added and less tinkering but we could use two or three players to compete.

Still many questions at all positions except LT. Long, Garner,Incog and Carey may work but where and how well is still the question due to health and ???

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“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

Garner should be playing LG/RG competing with Berger, who I feel will lose out to Incog, then they will bring in a RG prospect to compete with whoever at RG, also I see them bringing in another RT prospect.

I don't look to F.A for line help. I think that Sparano likes to hand pick, and groom players for his "0-line" rather than sign a older injury proned veteran.

Consistancy baby.

No I just think with the disaster with our last big F/A o-lineman that drafting a high rated o-lineman in the draft would make for a much better investment, and also somone who can contribute from day one.

Which is why I am all for trading down, and then first second round take two best guards.

Or we can roll the dice, pay ALOT of money for a proven vet, who if get's injured well TADAAAAAAA. We will be at where we are at today!!!!!

Hey hey stupid on the surface brilliant on the inside.

You have to look beyond the waves phinsfan. Look where the tide originates!!

And who said that we have to go after an injury prone lineman? Hopefully we learned from those mistakes.

We need a big time C or LG. If we can get a big time center we can put Incognito at RG and Garner at LG. Lots of options.

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“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

Incognito can, and should be our Center, the man can play center.

He is built for it. Give him the offseason to learn it here, and watch the man tear it up.

Our problem SHOULD be solved at C with him.

NO. No. No. No. No. Leave Incognito at LG, draft another center. Center was my position. It's the most skilled position on the line. Center has to be in your blood and in your head.

ChyrenB Wrote:
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> NO. No. No. No. No. Leave Incognito at LG, draft
> another center. Center was my position. It's the
> most skilled position on the line. Center has to
> be in your blood and in your head.


Um he was a center throughout college. He was placed at RG in the pro's.

Um. Well he must have been a piss poor center.

incognigo was terrible at G last year, I don't want to leave him there. we need an upgrade

Some guys that can help

Marcus Cannon
Ben Ijalana
Jake Kirkpatrick
Tim barnes
Ryan Batholomew
Colin Madison
Kyle hix
John Moffitt
Jason Pinkston
Marcus Gilbert

We originally signed two pretty big free agents to contracts...Grove and Smiley.

Problem is they were injury risks and the f.o. ignored that fact....they missed games but we had a top 5 line while they were here.

We released them and tried to replace them with cheaper options.

IT DIDN'T WORK! We need to sign two quality linemen in free agency. I would not be surprised to see us release Carey. He is old and expensive and injured. Gonna be 30 and make almost 5 mil. He has never been dominant.

It is more expensive to sign skill positions than to draft them so this draft should be about offensive playmakers IMO.

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“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

I think alot actually depends on the future CBA, if the salary cap is lowered drastically, you'll see Jerry and Incog(C/G?) starting for sure with Carey's 5 mill probably getting cut for a rookie or Garner, if the cap is equal or better then than last year we could go out and spend some FA dollars on the line.

Phinsfan2 Wrote:
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> I think we'll be looking to free agency (Carl
> Nicks? Davin Joseph?) to help out the o-line.

Nicks received the first round tender. So much for him.

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“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers