With all the bad that came out of the Falcons game this past Friday, I must say that in my opinion, the biggest "bomb" is how bad Clemons is....
I was at the game, and simply watched this dude on every defensive play... He absolutely SUCKS!!!
He really has no insticts what so ever.... He is late on every play...

The touchdown that Jason Allen gave up was partially his fault... A MENTAL mistake that had himself in limbo, not choosing the proper side of the field to cover...

We have at least 2 better options at Strong safety that would be a much bigger improvement over this guy,,,,

Tyrone Culver is a much better option that this dude.


I know that many of you will say that you didn't notice him make any mistakes...
The problem is that he needs to get more into the play...Read plays... Make plays...Be a "playmaker"

steviec13 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> With all the bad that came out of the Falcons game
> this past Friday, I must say that in my opinion,
> the biggest "bomb" is how bad Clemons is....
> I was at the game, and simply watched this dude on
> every defensive play... He absolutely SUCKS!!!
> He really has no insticts what so ever.... He is
> late on every play...
>
> The touchdown that Jason Allen gave up was
> partially his fault... A MENTAL mistake that had
> himself in limbo, not choosing the proper side of
> the field to cover...
>
> We have at least 2 better options at Strong safety
> that would be a much bigger improvement over this
> guy,,,,
>
> Tyrone Culver is a much better option that this
> dude.
>
>
> I know that many of you will say that you didn't
> notice him make any mistakes...
> The problem is that he needs to get more into the
> play...Read plays... Make plays...Be a "playmaker"

I agree...I have seen the same thing in these preseason games. He appears lost or that his head is not in the game. I got to believe the coaches have seen the same things as us and Clemons will not be starting..

I wouldn't call him a BUST just yet. Give the guy some time playing games that matter. Just like the corners lets see how he looks when we "unleash" our real defense and all of the blitz packages.

This preseason we have done NOTHING on defense and it has left our secondary on one giant island being exposed. So I wouldn't jump on any of them yet. As I have been saying....WEEK 1 vs Buffalo. IF they play horrible, start yelling and screaming then. Until then I can't be fair judges of them, its not fair.

MikeO Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I wouldn't call him a BUST just yet. Give the guy
> some time playing games that matter. Just like the
> corners lets see how he looks when we "unleash"
> our real defense and all of the blitz packages.
>
> This preseason we have done NOTHING on defense and
> it has left our secondary on one giant island
> being exposed. So I wouldn't jump on any of them
> yet. As I have been saying....WEEK 1 vs Buffalo.
> IF they play horrible, start yelling and screaming
> then. Until then I can't be fair judges of them,
> its not fair.


Based on how he has played, I do not think he will get his chance to prove himself as a starter, that is kind of the point. You have to at least show up, and show something in preseason to get a starting job. Most players have done this. Vontae, Dansby, Misi, Odrick, Starks, YB, Smith,Langford, Solai, Carroll, etc. They have all made mistakes and been inconsistent, which is expected in preseason. Clemons has sucked consistently all preseason, which is not what you expect from a guy expected to be a starter, regardless the defensive scheme being vanilla.

Clemons is the starter at this point. We have nobody else really at that position.

Watch the waiver wire though.

or another trade...

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

I'm not sure the guy is an upgrade over Gebril Wilson. Yea, that is bad.

But he is a 5th round pick - Hard to call him a "bust".

This is why I was all for signing Ken Hamlin this offseasson on the cheap when nobody wanted him after he was cut from Dalals. Yes, Hamlin isn't great and is nothnig special by any means. But we could have broke Clemons in slow. Play Hamlin on heavy rushing downs. Clemons on passing downs. Have a seasoned vet mentor Clemons and break Clemons in slow.

Clemons has learned under Gabril Wilson and pretty much no other vet FS. In 2 years now. Signing an old guy who's skills were diminished wouldn't have been awful for the role we needed him for. Now we are stuck in the situation we are in.

DolfanMike Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm not sure the guy is an upgrade over Gebril
> Wilson. Yea, that is bad.
>
> But he is a 5th round pick - Hard to call him a
> "bust".


Good point, it is hard for a 5th rd pick to be a bust in just his second year, for not looking like a starter. At times last year he looked alright... Hopefully something will click for the guy and he will translate the success Sparano says he consistently has in practice in to an actual game and as Mike O says, something more then a preseason game... I am just praying he isnt starting. I also agree lets give Culver a shot, he cant be any worse then what we are getting...

Clemons will start. He has had every 1st team rep in practice. They have nobody to back him up on the roster at FS. Jones is a true SS as is Culver. Clemons is starting the year at FS.

If anything HOPE and PRAY they find someone on the waiver wire they can bring in as a legit back-up

Geez you guys are rough, give the guy a chance would ya!

Hate to say it...but you don't give him the roster spot because he is "the best we have"!!!

I agree with Crowder52: You have to show at least "some" evidence that you have what it takes to be a special player...

On one play the throw was over the middle (overthrown" and right into his hands and he flat out missed the catch for the interception...

Culver can play both FS and SS.... He will be our starter barring a waiver wire pickup...

This guy is Gibril Wilson part II

steviec13 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hate to say it...but you don't give him the roster
> spot because he is "the best we have"!!!
>


Sure you do, if you don't who the heck is gonna play the position?

MikeO Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Clemons will start. He has had every 1st team rep
> in practice. They have nobody to back him up on
> the roster at FS. Jones is a true SS as is Culver.
> Clemons is starting the year at FS.
>
> If anything HOPE and PRAY they find someone on the
> waiver wire they can bring in as a legit back-up


Aren't you the same Mike O that a few months ago, wouldnt stop arguing how, Sean Smith was our best corner and heads and shoulders above Vontae Davis.... and it would be Will Allen and Sean SMith as our starting corners... Not sure I trust your judgement on the secondary, including that Clemons is the best guy to start at that position...

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MikeO Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Clemons will start. He has had every 1st team
> rep
> > in practice. They have nobody to back him up on
> > the roster at FS. Jones is a true SS as is
> Culver.
> > Clemons is starting the year at FS.
> >
> > If anything HOPE and PRAY they find someone on
> the
> > waiver wire they can bring in as a legit
> back-up
>
>
> Aren't you the same Mike O that a few months ago,
> wouldnt stop arguing how, Sean Smith was our best
> corner and heads and shoulders above Vontae
> Davis.... and it would be Will Allen and Sean
> SMith as our starting corners... Not sure I trust
> your judgement on the secondary, including that
> Clemons is the best guy to start at that
> position...


Hey I didn't know Sean Smith was gonna start showing up late and not taking things seriously. Things change, Can I change an opinion when the facts of the situation change can't I?!?

And last year if you break down the stats Sean Smith WAS better than Vonte. The stats don't lie!!!

And to say you don't want Chris Clemons ON THE TEAM when we don't even have a back-up FS.....its silly. Come on!! You don't have to like the guy but to not want him on the team is just silly



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/30/2010 03:47AM by MikeO.

MikeO Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Hey I didn't know Sean Smith was gonna start
> showing up late and not taking things seriously.
> Things change, Can I change an opinion when the
> facts of the situation change can't I?!?
>
> And last year if you break down the stats Sean
> Smith WAS better than Vonte. The stats don't
> lie!!!
>
> And to say you don't want Chris Clemons ON THE
> TEAM when we don't even have a back-up FS.....its
> silly. Come on!! You don't have to like the guy
> but to not want him on the team is just silly


I hear ya and give you credit and props for sticking to your prior statement. Most would have squirmed out of it.
I want Clemons on the team, I just dont want him starting... Last year showed us that if you dont stop the big plays, it doesnt matter how many other plays you stop. We are notorious for coming out of the gates slow and this year with our AFC East Round Robin in the first 4games,we must play well early. Clemons making the right call, to lend help to the deep ball, at the right timing, gives me nightmares... I would rather start a rookie out of positions, or Culver...(now that might be silly, but what choices do we really have) To be honest I wish they would give Carroll a try, he seems to know the playbook as well as anyone, which in itself is impressive and also he appears to be one hell of an instinctual football player.... All of the attributes I wish I could say about Clemons, but I can not find one good reason to have the guy as our starting FS at this point... I hope I am wrong and Clemons is a stud and these nightmares go away...lol...

On a side note: Nate Allen from USF has claimed the starting FS spot in Philly. Many on here thought we should have drafted a FS and Allen was high on the list.

Taylor Mays has been moved to SS in SF and is still a backup (2nd string) to Michael Lewis but he has been doing pretty well I guess.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

LOL isnt it exciting!!! He might suck real bad, and we lose every game!! He might excel and we win every game!!!

dolphan4545 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There seems to be quite a range of opinion on this
> guy's value. I haven't been watching him too
> closely so I don't have enough information to
> render an opinion, but Chris Shashaty's column
> doesn't seem to agree with many posters on this
> board.
>
> "LIKE: Chris Clemons. Last season we saw his range
> and ball skills, but we also saw inexperience.

In 2009, Chris Clemons had 0 INT and 0 passes defensed. So, how did we see his ball skills?

dolfanmark Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In 2009, Chris Clemons had 0 INT and 0 passes
> defensed. So, how did we see his ball skills?

He was burned 0 times for TDs

The people jumping all over Clemons right now I think are overreacting a bit much. At least wait till Sep 12th at about 4pm or so. Then it will be justified. Right now it really isn't.

Do not read anything into these preseason games. Seriously.These games ONLY matter for the marginal players and guys trying to make the team. Someone like Clemons who was handed the starters job by default in May esentially...you can't judge him. Especially with the vanilla defense we have played. You can't get a true evaluation of him.

I think you have to give him an even longer leash than 1 week Mike, he's a 2nd yr player and will no doubt have some rough growing-pain type games this year, if he's single handedly costing us games then yank him, but if he's showing improvement each week then all you can do is grow with him.

I will give him a month or two. But some of these people kiling him now for crying out loud, at least give him 1 game before you unload on the kid...lol lol lol

I think what we're looking for from Clemons is an improvement from game-to-game. That's something Gibril Wilson didn't give us. He was just BAD every game. If Clemons starts to "get it" and get better as the season goes on, I think he'll be fine. Not a pro-bowler, but fine.

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Just like Bokamper praising Berger when he was
> getting schooled. Reporters have relationships
> with players and that can and does cloud their
> view and stories IMO. DO me a favor go back and
> watch the presseason games specificaly when
> Clemons is playing and tell me what you think of
> his play.

Generally, Shashaty seems more objective than this. Maybe he is seeing some details we aren't.

It would be interesting to hear from if he has some connection with Clemons or if the reasoning was more substantial - he does sometimes post to this forum, right? Chris, you out there?

DolfanMike Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Crowder52 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> >
> > Just like Bokamper praising Berger when he was
> > getting schooled. Reporters have relationships
> > with players and that can and does cloud their
> > view and stories IMO. DO me a favor go back
> and
> > watch the presseason games specificaly when
> > Clemons is playing and tell me what you think
> of
> > his play.
>
> Generally, Shashaty seems more objective than
> this. Maybe he is seeing some details we aren't.
>
> It would be interesting to hear from if he has
> some connection with Clemons or if the reasoning
> was more substantial - he does sometimes post to
> this forum, right? Chris, you out there?


yes I agree, I like Chris's work but this one I dont get. Sparano has praised the guy in practice before the Jax game, once the Jax game, he stopped praising him and said the job was undecided. I would love to hear one or two plays from any game thus far this preseason, that shows Clemons making a standout play. Anyone? I want to feel better about the guy. I dont think I am killing the guy, I just dont see him as a starter, I think he is a great backup at this point and nothing more, I am more worried about the position then Clemons. That position was a major weakness, and that specific position led to several losses last year. From what I have seen, we probably have gone backwards with the position from last year, which is what I am truly worried about. Nothing against Clemons, I hope he does well and I am wrong but at this point, All I can judge is what I have seen and as far as I am concerned it is what it is. The tape doesnt lie.... Maybe Chris, has seen him shine in practice and that is where the statement comes from. So far he has not translated that to game time, at least that I have seen.

This is how I based my thoughts on Clemons:

I have season tix, and sat through the entire preseason game against Tampa and Jax.

I specifically focussed on Clemons on every play....

You can NOT do that watching the game on tv.

The problem with Clemons is that he lacks the instincts needed by a safety...

A safety is supposed to read the play quickly and react...

Clemons is at least 1-2 seconds to late on every play. He also is a very poor tackler...

Sorry to say, but this guy has the makings of another Gibril Wilson...


I think that the coaches are seeing this now...

I promise you Culver or a waiver pickup will be the starter along with Bell.

Culver has much better instincts...He is young, and he is a good tackler..

Just my 2 cents...