It is stupid.

I know there is a lot of temptation because TV has made this kind of stupidity acceptable, but how can you possibly attach an arbitrary grading scale to a bunch of players who haven't even hit the field yet?

Some people let their inner Neanderthal get the best of them. That includes clowns like Kiper, McShay, and even some of those writers out there who actually cover this thing for a living...

As much as I love football, I feel like there is more and more (and more) idiocy you have to sift through in order to actually just enjoy the sport itself.

It really pisses me off that people like Kiper and McShay (who was terrible during the draft, by the way) make a living being asshats.

The only criteria for grading the draft at this point are...

Did the team adequately address its needs?

and

Did the team get good value for each selection?

Granted, the second criterion is somewhat subjective, although there are clear cases when a team takes a player too early (i.e. there was an excellent chance they could have gotten this player in a later round).

sconigli Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The only criteria for grading the draft at this
> point are...
>
> Did the team adequately address its needs?
>
> and
>
> Did the team get good value for each selection?
>
> Granted, the second criterion is somewhat
> subjective, although there are clear cases when a
> team takes a player too early (i.e. there was an
> excellent chance they could have gotten this
> player in a later round).


YEP! And the draft all but signals the end of the offseason as we now move towards mini-camps and head into the summer.

So we went into this offseason with a 5 major needs!

#1 WR--Brandon Marshall, oh yeah,FILLED IT
#2 NT--Moved Starks,re-signed Ferguson. FILLED IT
#3 LB--Dansby, Dobbins, and drafted a bunch FILLED IT
#4 OG--Incognitio, Jerry--FILLED IT

The Saftey position is the only place we haven't really addressed yet. ALTHOUGH, you can make the case its "addition by subtraction" by losing Gabril Wilson. And there is still time to fix it whether it be Hamlin or Sharper.

Bottom line, we had 5 major voids to fill. We did a more than nice job addressing 4 of them!

TheFutt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It is stupid.

RESPONSE: You may very well be right. But doesn't that logically apply to exuberant praise as well as harsh criticism?

I always find it funny when people say don't give grades the day after the draft. This is all entertainment, people like reading this stuff. Everyone knows grades are a joke and you need to wait a few years to see how the draft turned out. But it still makes for interesting reading. The grade is usually based on whether the grader feels you reached for a player or got a player later than was expected. And whether you filled needs or drafted at a position you already had a guy at. That's pretty much it. I love reading instant draft grades.

For some real fun, we should be grading the 2005 draft.

Like you say, berk, it's only a prediction. No one knows the future. Only the future can tell who's right or wrong.

Moreover, as I said, those opinions on the draft take into account the entire draft as a "MOSAIC," i.e., who fits in, who was not taken, what needs were filled, what you are wrong about with respect to what is needed.

It's all just a prediction.

However, that does not mean that the optimists have a priority over the pessimist.

The optimists point to the strategy of the front office,,,, here, we need help at LB AND WE NEED IT BAD...WE NEED IT SO BAD WE HAVE TO DEVOTE HALF OUR DRAFT TO IT.

Most people on this board, having blind devotion to Parcells, Ireland and crew, actually take the position that draft experts are to be ignored IF THEY CRITICIZE OUR DRAFT.

I wonder what they would say if those same experts praised it.

The point is, as you say, no one knows and draft analysis, like draft predictions, are 21st Century Witchcraft.

Only the future knows.

Everybody has a right to their opinion though and I think its stupid to utilize half of the draft picks at linebacker.

Stupid based on what?

sconigli Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> For some real fun, we should be grading the 2005
> draft.


sounds good--

1 2(2) Ronnie Brown HB Auburn
2 14(46) Matt Roth DE Iowa
3 6(70) Channing Crowder ILB Florida
4 3(104) Travis Daniels CB LSU
5 26(162) Anthony Alabi OT TCU
7 2(216) Kevin Vickerson DT Michigan St.

I give us a C. Ronnie is a good player, and thankfully we didn't draft the other guys who were mentioned--braylon edwards, cadillac, c benson (though he's come around). Hindsight 20/20 we take Rogers or Merriman. But Ronnie hasn't been a superstar or anything, and always hurt.

Roth--solid player. never should have cut him. but also just decent, not great. let's see what he does with the browns.

Crowder-- meh

everyone else. terrible

But I think 2005 draft was hands down one of the worst draft classes ever, if not the worst. So coming away with 2 starters is about what you could hope for.

You think the 2005 is the worst ever. Go look at our drafts from 2000 to about 2004!!!

Find a couple players that made any real impact. Ya got Chris Chambers but not much else

Travis Daniels was decent for one season and then he dropped off the face of the Earth.

And I meant grading the entire 2005 draft, and comparing it to the scores given at the time.

Mike, I think he meant that the 2005 rookie class overall, not just what the fins got.

Do the stats bear that out?? I dont know. I would be curious to see some kind of analysis on it.

That 2005 class isn't awful. Ronnie has started from Day 1. Channing pretty much too.

Roth was a starter until the "falling out". that 2005 class is a solid "B" grade. Not great but not awful

TheFutt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Stupid based on what?


RESPONSE: Based on the fact that we might regret in the future, for one, not taking Toby Gerhardt with our newly acquired second round pick. Or we might regret not taking Jahvid Best with our first pick and chancing that we might have been able to get Odrick with our second round pick.

Like you said, Futt. Predicting the value of the draft the day afterwards is stupid. But how is the opinion of those of us who think that the draft was bad of any lesser value by your rule than those who think the draft was great?

(I put that question to you above).

Now if you just want your post to criticize those who criticize the draft then say so and I can put your statement in perspective but I take back my agreement with it.

You don't know if it's a "stupid" move or not. Nobody does...that's what I'm saying.

Would you watch the first 2 minutes of a game then try to predict/grade your team's performance for that entire game?

Of course not, because it doesn't make sense because you don't know what is going to happen.

Same idea here...

mikeo I meant 2005 draft class as a whole, not the phins. the 2005 phins draft blows away some of the other stinkers we had in the 2000s

What was the draft where Wanny (dog sh*t be upon him) took Eddie Moore (WHO?!?) in the 2nd round? That was probably the worst draft. (Although that might have been the year of Ricky).

Here's one of those that really blows. Was there ever a worse draft class for any team?

Round Pick Player Pos School
1 16(16) Jason Allen S Tennessee
3 18(82) Derek Hagan WR Arizona State
4 17(114) Joe Toledo T Washington
7 4(212) Fred Evans DT Texas State
7 18(226) Rodrique Wright DT Texas
7 25(233) Devin Aromashodu WR Auburn

Saban's 2nd draft was awful. No wonder he left running! lol lol

How about this one? Ouch!!!

1 9 (9) Ted Ginn Jr. WR Ohio State
2 8 (40) John Beck QB Brigham Young
2 28 (60) Samson Satele C Hawaii
3 7 (71) Lorenzo Booker RB Florida State
4 9 (108) Paul Soliai DT Utah
6 7 (181) Reagan Mauia RB University of Hawaii
6 25 (199) Drew Mormino OL Central Michigan University
7 9 (219) Kelvin Smith ILB Syracuse
7 15 (225) Brandon Fields P Michigan State University
7 28 (238) Abraham Wright DE Colorado



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/25/2010 05:26PM by Jonathan Twilley.

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TheFutt Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Stupid based on what?
>
>
> RESPONSE: Based on the fact that we might regret
> in the future, for one, not taking Toby Gerhardt
> with our newly acquired second round pick. Or we
> might regret not taking Jahvid Best with our first
> pick and chancing that we might have been able to
> get Odrick with our second round pick.
>
> Like you said, Futt. Predicting the value of the
> draft the day afterwards is stupid. But how is
> the opinion of those of us who think that the
> draft was bad of any lesser value by your rule
> than those who think the draft was great?
>
> (I put that question to you above).
>
> Now if you just want your post to criticize those
> who criticize the draft then say so and I can put
> your statement in perspective but I take back my
> agreement with it.

Man, you REALLY wanted us to draft a RB this year. Rofl.

this one was pretty frickin terrible


1995
1 Billy Milner (25) T Houston
2 Andrew Greene (53) G Indiana
Ingram)
4 Pete Mitchell (122) TE Boston College
5 Norman Hand (158) DT Mississippi
6 Jeff Kopp (194) LB Southern Cal
7a Corey Swinson (233) DT Hampton
7b x-Shannon Myers (246) WR Lenoir-Rhyne
(compensatory pick from NFL)

x-Physically Unable To Perform '95

IF Donald Thomas starts (which he still might,but I doubt) that 2008 draft got us 5 starters. Including a franchise LT and a franchise QB. That is one of the better drafts in the NFL in the last 15 or so years.

The 1979 SF draft is considered the best ever, and they didnt' even have a 1st round pick. Our 2005 draft (while not loaded with hall of famers yet) is looking promising as being one of the better ones Miami has ever had!

TheFutt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You don't know if it's a "stupid" move or not.
> Nobody does...that's what I'm saying.
>
> Would you watch the first 2 minutes of a game then
> try to predict/grade your team's performance for
> that entire game?
>
> Of course not, because it doesn't make sense
> because you don't know what is going to happen.
>
> Same idea here...

RESPONSE: So let's hear you come out and say that if nobody knows whether "it's stupid" now, neither does anybody know that it's "not stupid"......so far in advance of the future, that is.... which is your point Right?

You have avoided that question through three posts. Are you saying that the optimists can't be presumptuous for thinking the draft is great because somehow they actually know? That undercuts your entire argument. Are you saying that the pessimists who think it's a stupid draft are the only ones being presumptuous because they are taking the position its a bad move?

I mean you see the logic, right?

So give me a straight answer.

People who grade the NFL draft the day after it happens need to find something else to do because you have no idea how any of this is going to turn out.

I don't think it is dumb that you gave us a "D" any more or less than I think it's dumb that Joe Shmoe gave us an A+.

You want to grade a draft? Wait a few years.

TheFutt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> People who grade the NFL draft the day after it
> happens need to find something else to do because
> you have no idea how any of this is going to turn
> out.
>
> I don't think it is dumb that you gave us a "D"
> any more or less than I think it's dumb that Joe
> Shmoe gave us an A+.
>
> You want to grade a draft? Wait a few years.


Totally Agree

>>>Here's one of those that really blows. Was there ever a worse draft >>>class for any team?

>>>Round Pick Player Pos School
>>>1 16(16) Jason Allen S Tennessee
>>>3 18(82) Derek Hagan WR Arizona State
>>>4 17(114) Joe Toledo T Washington
>>>7 4(212) Fred Evans DT Texas State
>>>7 18(226) Rodrique Wright DT Texas
>>>7 25(233) Devin Aromashodu WR Auburn<<<<<

Craptacular. What ever happened to R.Wright? I do remember thinking at the time that he was a good pick in the 7th round.

Don't forget Saban used a SUPLEMENTAL DRAFT pick on Manuel Wright. Made him cry. CUT HIM. Then Wright goes to the Giants and wins a Super Bowl Ring!


Friggin Brilliant....god I hate that guy