Not sure that it means anything, but all the '0/0/0' WR were taken very close to one another. Sort of feels like there was a 3rd-round run on tier-2 WR in the draft and teams took shots on players they thought (probably a little too) highly of.

Similar to what you pointed out about other teams taking 2 WR, NE drafted Brandon Tate and then Julian Edelman in the 7th round, and it was Julian who ended up taking the starts after Welker went down.

Another observation is that the 4th round was the round (other than the 1st) to find WR talent in the 2009 draft.

I think Turner may be better served doing what Ernest Wilford tried to do and converting to TE. The knock I heard about him is he can't get open because he's too slow. Maybe he could outrun LB's?

I think the Turner thing is a coach preference thing.

I did not believe the whole BS about him struggling to beat press coverage. Especially when our rookie corners were easy to beat. Unless Turner was up against Smith EVERY snap...this is a smoke screen.

I also don't believe that he is too slow when I saw him get open in the pre-season by running good routes and using speed to increase seperation.

Our WR corps are weak. Bess is very good in the slot and Hartline has established himself as a solid #2 guy. BUT that too took way too long. Hartline would make a great play and then sent to the sidelines for 2-3 snaps. It was weeks before he was given the opportunity to develop a rhythm with his QB.

Turner did not get an opportunity to play. We were lining up in 3 TE sets, we trotted out the Wildcat, Pistol, Spread, Option... all because our base offense wasn't good enough and they were experimenting. At 6' 5" Turner is a very safe experiment. ON 3rd and 4 he would have no problem getting open. Put a tall big man like that out there and the coverage MUST change.

I personally suspect that his practice appearance left the coaches un-impressed, so they didn't bother to put him out there.

IMO, this was the biggest offensive wasted opportunity of the year.

It was reported Turner couldn't beat little Nathan Jones on plays in practice all season long. And the coaches soured on him because of that.


I mean if you are Turner's size and can't beat out Nathan Jones in practice....not a good sign

One year and two off-seasons is a little too early to abandon the kid IMO. Most WR's take 3 years. We have had this discussion many times.

Sometimes players don't pan out (Derek Hagan 3-18) and sometimes they start fast and then flame out (Rod Gardner). You just never know.

Problem is that it feels like when a player starts off as Turner is, they never see the field and get a chance under Sporano ala Ernest Wilford. Seems to be following the same path.

Its too bad because of all the other WR's we passed on for him. Louis Murphy was my choice last year and would be great to have had....oh well.

Lets hope the light comes on soon.

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“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

On his radio show, Channing Crowder said that Turner runs sloppy routes. Given his slowness, running sloppy routes means he is never going to get open. With no speed and no route running ability, how can he get separation? It's too early to give up on Turner. He may figure it out. But, he was a reach in the 3rd round. At the time, Mel Kiper said he should not have been drafted, period. I think that Massaquoi, Tate, Wallace, and Barden being off the board caused our front office to panic, and they reached for the biggest target available.

The problem I see with Turner and a long term future in Miami is his slowness. We cannot continue to have a roster of WR who cannot stretch the field. Hartline is a 4.55 guy, but he has shown some ability to get behind defenses. Camarillo was a 4.6 guy coming out of Stanford. Bess was a 4.7 guy at the combine, and he looked slower in 2009 than he did in 2008. Turner is another 4.7 guy. Turner can't be part of the solution unless the WR corps is revamped with some speed guys. This is also why I wouldn't even consider trading for Boldin, another slow wideout who cannot stretch the field. I'm of the opinion that even if we sign an Antonio Bryant, we need to draft a WR in the 2nd or 3rd round. If we had Bryant, Gilyard, Hartline, and Bess/Camarillo as our 4 top WR, I'd feel a lot better about Henne's supporting cast.

Channing Crowder throwing another teammate under the bus in the press.

Another reason to get rid of that clown. Some teammate he is. Defends Porter and badmouths all the other OLB's on the roster. Now he is ripping Patrick Turner on the radio.

This is gonna be some clubhouse/lockeroom next year!!

Channing is a moron

I agree. If it is true that a 6'5" 225 lb WR can't beat a 5'10" 183 lbs nickelback...that would be pathetic.

But I don't believe it. And I don't believe that the only way the guy has any value is being able to beat Jones deep.

There is something else. Maybe they were pissed about him fraternizing with Mark Sanchez?

But the guy didn't get a sniff. At 6'5"? On the same field with Ginn, Bess, and Ronnie Brown? ANY high School coach could come up with a handful of plays that would have him in man coverage against a shorter DB or a slower LB. I'm not saying he would be a guarantee...but you gotta have a look. Especially when WR is a weakness.

I could see the Saints or Cardinals not activating him...but us? No..we needed to see what we have in him.

I read that he was in a couple games...Was it special teams? Was it on regular 'O'? what were the play calls? Were they even passing plays? Anyone out there with some film?

Like I have said a hundred times....the poor play of our WR's ( by NFL standards - not Tony's press briefings about how great they are) gives even more reason to put the guy on the field and throw him a ball or two.

I'm with you on that one!

Get rid of Crowder ASAP!

realist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I read that he was in a couple games...Was it
> special teams? Was it on regular 'O'? what were
> the play calls? Were they even passing plays?
> Anyone out there with some film?
>
> Like I have said a hundred times....the poor play
> of our WR's ( by NFL standards - not Tony's press
> briefings about how great they are) gives even
> more reason to put the guy on the field and throw
> him a ball or two.

But two things to consider.

1) The WR's in front of him stink. If he can't beat out that group in practice that is telling.

2) Our secondary stunk last year. If he can't beat our secondary in practice that is telling.

Maybe the guy flat out can't play. Like I said, it was reported by Omar Kelly and numerous others all season long. Turner couldn't beat out little Nathan Jones in practice all season long.....so you don't play in games if you can't do anything in practice against nathan jones!

malcolm Floyd & Vincent Jackson took a few years to develop

Maybe pete Carrol would take him?

when does FA signing period start?

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“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

Like I said...I don't believe it the whole story is given.

His speed was a known when they drafted him in the 3rd round. No surprises there. he is a 4.6 guy.

They had film on him. Most people were aware that he was the 'go to' guy in the 'redzone'.

That's what they wanted Wilford fo. That's what they drafted him for. We got down into the redzone too.

Rather than put this 6'5" guy on the field and let him do what he did well in college, they brought Pat White out...or asked Ricky Williams to throw the ball...or some other trick play.


Maybe he can't beat Nate Jones downfield. But on 2nd and goal from the 5 yard line...I think he has some skill sets that make him worth a try. Maybe if he converts a few 1st downs and short routes guys start changing their coverage?


I really hope that this training camp that some of you guys who go down there can have a long look and report what you see.

Got another theory. Parcells/Ireland like the idea of a big (slow) target in the endzone, but, maybe, Sparano/Henning don't. It could explain why we signed Wilford and drafted Turner, but neither saw the field.

I lived in NJ for 7 years, and I remember when the GM for the Nets signed Dikembe Mutumbo. He came in with very high expectations (and a BIG contract), but he didn't fit Byron Scott's philosophy...so he barely played at all.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/15/2010 05:47PM by montequi.

> when does FA signing period start?

I think it is march 5th.

realist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I read that he was in a couple games...Was it
> special teams? Was it on regular 'O'? what were
> the play calls? Were they even passing plays?
> Anyone out there with some film?
>
> Like I have said a hundred times....the poor play
> of our WR's ( by NFL standards - not Tony's press
> briefings about how great they are) gives even
> more reason to put the guy on the field and throw
> him a ball or two.

He was active for two games, I believe. And in those games, he only played on special teams. He did not take one offensive snap.

He's not a good special teams player. And unless he could be, they are not going to dress a 5th WR who can't play special teams. He was not going to play ahead of Bess or Camarillo, as they were the only 2 guys with set roles in the WR rotation. And Hartline was ahead of him because he learned how to play all the WR spots, and he was a good special teams guy, and he showed ability to make some plays. And although everyone, including myself, thinks they may as well have given Turner a shot over Ginn, it's not realistic to think they would bench the only guy on the team capable of getting deep or returning kickoffs. So, Turner was kind of stuck.

To clarify on Crowder, he wasn't really ripping Turner. When asked about him, he said he ran sloppy routes, but thought he could be good down the road. He added that he makes one handed catches in practice all the time.

I know this will not be a popular sentiment, but I would be looking to trade Ted Ginn AND Davone Bess. For Ginn, it's obvious. He cannot catch the ball in traffic or when contested. He is not physical at all, and doesn't fit the mentality they are trying to build. As for Bess, I think he and Camarillo are somewhat redundant, with Camarillo having more upside. Bess is slow, really slow. There is no comparison between Bess and Wes Welker, despite what many here believe. When Welker catches the ball, there is that moment of fear that he will turn it into a big play. Bess has none of that explosiveness. While his hands looked great in 2008, they declined in 2009. And he had issues with fumbles, too. Camarillo has done what he's done the last 2 years while starting at flanker and coming off major knee surgery in between. He was our #1 WR before the injury. He's been matched up against a starting corner. In the slot, Bess gets to work against nickel backs, linebackers, and safeties. I believe that in the same slot role, Camarillo would be a better player than Bess. His hands are better and he has more speed. I think we need two new players at the position, and I would free up the spots by trading Ginn and Bess. I think a WR corps of Antonio Bryant, Brian Hartline, Greg Camarillo, Mardy Gilyard/Brandon Lafell/Golden Tate/Demaryius Thomas/Andre Roberts/Jeremy Williams/Arrelious Benn would be a huge step forward. And I don't think Bess would be missed in that scenario.

Ya gotta wonder.

I think henning was more concerned with getting Pat White on the field in the redzone...after all he was a 2nd round pick.

Camarillo did not play well enough to keep Turner on the bench all season. They dressed 5 WR's twice...and never put him on the field to run a route.


I think they will give him a better shot next year, and then say they developed him...whatever, just get him on the field and see what he can do.

New Seattle Seahawks head coach Pete Carroll knows more about Miami Dolphins second-year wide receiver Patrick Turner than just about anybody, so the fact that the 6-foot-5, 223-pound ex-USC Trojan did not make a lot of noise last year as a rookie didn’t surprise him.

Carroll had Turner for four years at USC when he was the head coach and he identified early on how the young man needed to be coached and brought along.

"Patrick is a guy that has to develop his relationship with the club and the style and everything. It took him a while at SC to really take over," said Carroll, who is returning to the NFL from the college ranks after a more than a decade away (he left in 1999 or USC). "He had a very good junior year but it took him all the way to his senior year to really take over where other guys that we had had play his position were able to take over immediately as freshmen.

"So we watched him develop a little more slowly and get comfortable and once he did he took over. I don’t really know how it went for him (in Miami), I know he wasn’t active for all of the games, but I would bet that if it’s like it was he’ll develop into a very comfortable feeling and be a factor for them. He’s a very, very good player."

MiamiDolphins.com

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“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

Turner needs to step up soon and take a job away from Bess or Camarillo..we need to draft Dez Bryant and put him on a tight leash then Ginn needs to make strides in the gym and as far as being more physical with his play.

Bryant...properly monitored and controlled.
Ginn...stronger and more physical.
Hartline...hopefully further improved with another off season of work.
Turner...stepping up and winning the job if he can.
Bess or Camarillo...whichever one is left as a solid option. The other gets cut or traded (if possible).

This would give us a pretty solid group of five receivers with size, speed and physicality...if all of these things come to fruition.

dolphaholic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 3 things Ken,
> 1. you dont take a chance on a guy at the 12th
> pick that you have to "properly monitor and
> control."

I don't know. It beats wasting the #9 pick on a glorified kick returner.

I am also not very impressed with their ability to bring out the talent. However, I would augment it from 'guys they've brought in' to 'in our WR corps in general'.

Hartline and Bess, to me, appear to be the types of players that are self-motivated to get better and maximize their potential. Perhaps the most important measure of a good position coach, I believe, is to maximize players' talent so that production is maximized. I personally believe Hartline and Bess would be just about as good as they are with or without Dorrell. Same goes for Camarillo. They need coaching, but not nearly to the extent that others do.

Where he needs to make his money is with Ginn, Turner, (formerly) Wilford...maybe a couple of the potential diamonds in the rough like Pruitt and Taurus Johnson...maybe a draft pick. If we get a draft pick WR that needs any more than marginal coaching to develop, I have 0 confidence that Dorrell will get it done.

dolphaholic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 3 things Ken,
> 1. you dont take a chance on a guy at the 12th
> pick that you have to "properly monitor and
> control."
> 2. Ginn will NEVER be a physical reciever
> 3. Lets get Turner a catch in the regular season
> before we have him winning a starting spot.
> I have high hopes for Hartline progressing and I
> see us maybe taking a rec in the 2nd or 3rd

Ok I'll bite, 1. you take players that have superior talent and therefore make the team better...if that player has been in trouble before you owe it to that player to baby sit him until he does some growing up (which he owes you for the priviledge of drafting him and paying him a lot of money). That's simply securing your investment to the best of your ability.

2. I never said Ginn had to be a physical receiver...What I said was he needs to be more physical than he is right now...that could be something as simple as getting bigger and stronger in the gym and learning how to use that better on the field.

3. And I didn't say Turner should be given a sterting spot. I said HE needs to step up and take one if he can.