I never called you a Jet fan.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

I did LOL.

dolphin1423 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't think Dolfanking is a troll. Just an
> upset dolphan that registered last night to vent
> out his frustration with the pick, which is fine.
>
>
> I disagree though, I love the pick, we are taking
> a chance to be great finally. If it doesn't work
> out then everyone gets fired and we try again,
> thats life in the NFL.


You got it. I'm sick of year after year seeing the same crap. RT is not a top ten qb. We had a top ten pick. He may be a good qb, but right now I see a guy that should have been picked around the same spot we picked Henne. Hence the title.

I wouldn't have posted anything had he been picked round two. But with a top ten pick, you have to take blue chip talent and RT is far from that. I think I've made some quite legit points as to why he isn't Blue Chip.

This idea obviously pisses some people off. So I'll treat it as a dangerous idea and repeat it often and with vigor.

Aqua&Orange Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I never called you a Jet fan.

Looks like you just got generalize into the same group of posters that are calling me names, and distorting my words just because they disagree about a draft pick.

Don't expect an apology.

I don't want one from you. Not asking, could care less.


This site is filled with about 20-30 prominent posters, we argue, we fight...but at the end of the day...we are brothers.

I have seen a hundred of posters like you who come on here post about 20 posts of nonsense and then leave.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

Maybe he is really mia1 and he has a dictionary thats why his speech had improved.

LOL JUst kiddin.

Lighten up guys.


MikeO is that really you?

Aqua&Orange Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't want one from you. Not asking, could care
> less.
>
>

For a guy who claims he could care less, you certainly seem to making a lot of comments to my posts. I didn't come here attacking you, I came here to vent about this sucky front office making another big mistake. You don't agree so you call names? Yea, you're a bright one.


> This site is filled with about 20-30 prominent
> posters, we argue, we fight...but at the end of
> the day...we are brothers.
>
> I have seen a hundred of posters like you who come
> on here post about 20 posts of nonsense and then
> leave.


I could care less how long you've been on this board. Obviously you have plenty of practice sitting a keyboard, trying to cowardly bully people who post anything outside your myopic, ill informed view. But it don't mean you know a damn thing about football, son.

As for "nonsense"...

Is it nonsense that nearly every media outlet is calling Tannehill a reach?

Is it nonsense that Tannenhill's per game collegiate numbers are very close to Henne's?

Is it nonsense that nearly all top ten drafted QBs in the modern era are expected to compete on day one, and Tannehill won't be doing that?

Is it nonsense that this front office and organization has a history of failing to properly evaluate its draft talent?


I could go on, but the answer to all of these questions is NO. I'm not posting nonsense, I'm posting objectively. And when I take off the Orange and Aqua goggles, I realize this pick stinks to high heaven.


No denying that Tannehill is currently a mediocre QB, and picking him in the first round is a reach. There is no way to sugar coat that. We all know you can't, so the best retort you have is to call me a troll, liar, Jet fan. But it doesn't make what I'm writing any less true.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/27/2012 08:55PM by DolfanKing.

DK, why did you wait until AFTER we made our pick to express your opinion about who we should draft?

Thank you Chyren.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

DolfanKing Wrote:

> As for "nonsense"...
>
> Is it nonsense that nearly every media outlet is
> calling Tannehill a reach?

Yes. Because it simply isn't true. Gil Brandt had Tannehill ranked as the 4th best prospect in the draft. Bill Polian said Cleveland should have drafted him at #4 and called him an ideal WCO QB. Phil Simms loved the selection. Jon Gruden loved the selection. Mike Mayock said the gap between RG3 and Tannehill is smaller than anyone thinks. Greg Cosell said that Tannehill is the best QB in the draft for throwing on the run, and his downfield vision rivals Luck's.

>
> Is it nonsense that Tannenhill's per game
> collegiate numbers are very close to Henne's?

Yes. It is ridiculous to compare college stats. Teams play in different conferences, with different systems, with different supporting casts, against wildly variable levels of competition. Tannehill played in an NFL west coast offense at A&M. They used NFL route combinations, with multiple reads, and audibles. It is a much more difficult system to run than the simple systems run by most college QBs, like Weeden, for example.

>
> Is it nonsense that nearly all top ten drafted QBs
> in the modern era are expected to compete on day
> one, and Tannehill won't be doing that?

Yes. Jake Locker? Blaine Gabbert? vince Young? Jamarcus Russell? matt Leinart? And it is an assumption that Tannehill is not competing on day one. Keep in mind, he knows this offense better than either Garrard or Moore. The biggest hurdle for playing time for most college QBs is learning the system. Tannehill already knows it. In particular, the WCO playcalls use extensive verbiage, and this is particularly challenging. Tannehill already has this down. Most rookie have to learn to throw NFL routes. Not Tannehill. He was throwing 18 yard outs at A&M. He has more Division 1 collegiate starts than either Cam Newton or Mark Sanchez did. Tim Ryan, Pat Kirwan, and Gil Brandt on Sirius draft coverage all said that he will have a legitimate chance to be the week 1 starter. Do not be surprised to see Moore traded away very soon, eliminating one hurdle to his playing time.

>
> Is it nonsense that this front office and
> organization has a history of failing to properly
> evaluate its draft talent?

Yes. At least as the first round goes. And Ireland has only been calling the shots on personnel for 1 year. And the coaching staff is entirely new. And the staff now includes offensive friendly and QB friendly minds like Philbin and Mike Sherman. Sherman coached Tannehill for 4 years. And he wanted him here. Sherman is an experienced NFL coach, with success with QBs. It is nonsense to compare the current organization to the missteps made by Parcells.

Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees....

Sometimes Everybody gets it wrong. The fact is that no one will know for several years.

The fact is we have an elite athlete for our future QB. I for one am excited to see this kid play with the pros. I like his demeanor and attitude and skill set.

Hell of a lot better than having that backup QB in NE as the face of our franchise. The Arkansas guy.

Why do so many people think they are evaluators? let it play out and see how the kid does. I like him.

I also love the fact that Sherman, (his former HC) Philbin and even Ireland love the kid.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

samsam3738 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lighten up guys.
>
>
> MikeO is that really you?


I know the board MikeO posts on now, he loves the Tannehill pick and what Ireland's doing. FYI

The two players aren't even remotely comparable.

dolphaholic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> samsam3738 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Lighten up guys.
> >
> >
> > MikeO is that really you?
>
>
> I know the board MikeO posts on now, he loves the
> Tannehill pick and what Ireland's doing. FYI


Thanks.

dolfanmark Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> DolfanKing Wrote:
>
> > As for "nonsense"...
> >
> > Is it nonsense that nearly every media outlet
> is
> > calling Tannehill a reach?
>
> Yes. Because it simply isn't true. Gil Brandt had
> Tannehill ranked as the 4th best prospect in the
> draft. Bill Polian said Cleveland should have
> drafted him at #4 and called him an ideal WCO QB.
> Phil Simms loved the selection. Jon Gruden loved
> the selection. Mike Mayock said the gap between
> RG3 and Tannehill is smaller than anyone thinks.
> Greg Cosell said that Tannehill is the best QB in
> the draft for throwing on the run, and his
> downfield vision rivals Luck's.
>


I didn't say Tannehill didn't have proponents, I'm saying he was called a reach by nearly every media outlet. And that is true.



> >
> > Is it nonsense that Tannenhill's per game
> > collegiate numbers are very close to Henne's?
>
> Yes. It is ridiculous to compare college stats.
> Teams play in different conferences,

Henne played in the Big Ten when it was dominating the national scene. Tannehill played in the Big 12, which is relatively weaker than the Big 10 was back in the early 2000s. Essentially Tannehill had a lower degree of difficulty.



> different systems, with different supporting
> casts, against wildly variable levels of
> competition. Tannehill played in an NFL west coast
> offense at A&M.


Henne played in a pro-style offense at Michigan. They were both legit NFL style offenses.


> They used NFL route combinations,
> with multiple reads, and audibles. It is a much
> more difficult system to run than the simple
> systems run by most college QBs,

Both Henne and Tannehill spread the ball around in College. Henne brought that to the NFL, but it didn't help him with the fans.



> like Weeden, for example.
>

Did I say anything about Weeden? Don't put words in my mouth.



> >
> > Is it nonsense that nearly all top ten drafted
> QBs
> > in the modern era are expected to compete on
> day
> > one, and Tannehill won't be doing that?
>
> Yes. Jake Locker? Blaine Gabbert? vince Young?
> Jamarcus Russell? matt Leinart?

Those guys competed day one. They didn't win the job, but they competed.


> And it is an assumption that Tannehill is not competing on day
> one.
>

This "assumption" comes from what the Miami Dolphins coaching staff and GM has said, not from the imagination of fans.



> >
> > Is it nonsense that this front office and
> > organization has a history of failing to
> properly
> > evaluate its draft talent?
>
> Yes.

I really don't know what to say about this except that all rational evidence has shown otherwise. If you are that delusional about this front office, then obviously there is nothing to discuss.

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> DK, why did you wait until AFTER we made our pick
> to express your opinion about who we should draft?

Because I don't like to make assumptions and live in a fantasy world. I could sit around all day and jabber and argue about who should be picked, and it won't make any difference on draft day.

Reality is that the front office has screwed up another draft. I'm expression my opinion on the reality of the situation not a fantasy of what the team "should" do.

I hate feeding a troll but here we go..(yea I'm still gonna call you a troll. You initiated a registration on this board simply to bitch and complain. While initially doing so about an unhappy pick would be acceptable, you've yet to show me anything that says DolFan, even after some reasonable time has elapsed.)

Comparing RT to Henne by saying "hey look their statistics are similiar! That means they're the same! Bust pick! Henne v2.0!" is complete hogwash and speaks volumes in contrary to your intelligent grammar usage.

You criticized someone saying just because they have a high post count on this board doesn't mean they "know anything about football son". Well, while statistics plays a roll in some regards to all sports, some more so than others, everyone that has intimate football knowledge knows that to base a players future and potential to become a great ball player by their statistics is borderline ignorant.

Anyone that watched the games that Chad Henne played in knows that his statistical game wasn't why he isn't in a Dolphin uniform right now. Chad had many things going for him from a physical perspective. I think he had enough going into the league to make it. But....

He lacked passion. He lacked drive to become a great. He wasn't hungry for it. He lacked leadership skills to get his team in line behind him to make a run at anything. No one on the team believed in Chad Henne except the coaching staff that placed him there, and in the latter portion of the Chad Henne show even that fizzled.

I will never forget the look in Henne's eyes in his post game interviews after wins and losses. His demeanor. His lack of feeling in his voice. The man was like an uncaring robot that was playing to pay off his boat mortgage.

DK, you spoke of how the analysts all said RT was a reach at 8. I will grant you that he was. Analyst also say that RT has an amazing skill set for his position, he just needs polish and direction. But I will also counter your statement by saying that Miami, before needing anything else, needed a QB. And they needed the best available, not the best value at X spot. That is why I agree with the choice to grab RT. He was the best available QB when it was our turn. Waiting another year isn't an option for this regime anymore.

They had to take the chance. I for one am glad and feel they should have been acting with this kind of attitude since day 1. BP, while helping turn our shitshow around when he came in, installed an old philosophy that set Miami back draft wise 5-6 years. I believe that's coming to an end.

RT will be succesful if he brings those skillsets to the table along with the things Henne could, or would, not. Drive, passion, discipline, and attitude. Putting those things together will get Miami a top tier QB for 10+ years.

Now if I could only find some posts of yours where you say something hopeful or positive about anything besides the backside and cleavage of RT's wife.......

Odenn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I hate feeding a troll but here we go..(yea I'm
> still gonna call you a troll. You initiated a
> registration on this board simply to bitch and
> complain. While initially doing so about an
> unhappy pick would be acceptable, you've yet to
> show me anything that says DolFan, even after some
> reasonable time has elapsed.)
>

I get it. I'm pissed about the first pick which is a big deal to me. I do have some positive things... but I've kind of had it with Ross and Ireland. They piss me off.

Here is some nice:

I like both the Martin and Miller pick.

Vernon is intriguing, but I'm not sure where he'll fit if we change the D scheme. This to me seems like a guy that Ireland locked on to without thinking of the bigger picture. But he could be a game changer if they figure out how to use him.



> Comparing RT to Henne by saying "hey look their
> statistics are similiar! That means they're the
> same! Bust pick! Henne v2.0!" is complete hogwash
> and speaks volumes in contrary to your intelligent
> grammar usage.
>

Looking at highlight reels, I think their passing and accuracy out of college looks similar as well.

I called Tannehill a bust once in some other thread. It was more rage than logic, and it was a wrong headed comment.

But this tread isn't about calling Tannehill a bust, its saying that I think we shouldn't have picked the guy at #8 overall. Comparing RT to Henne in college, they look a lot alike.

If it weren't for the Dolphins, who needed to pick a QB in round 1 just to shut up some fans,it is likely Tannehill would have slipped to the second (Just like Henne). And if Tannehill would have been picked in the second round by the Dolphins, then he would have probably garnered even more comparisons to Henne.



> You criticized someone saying just because they
> have a high post count on this board doesn't mean
> they "know anything about football son".

I criticized that person because he was disrespectful and insulting and didn't say a damned thing about football in his replies.

Look, I didn't log in and start posting "you're and idiot" to random people on this board. I logged in and compared the level of collegiate talent in Tannehill to Henne's collegiate talent and pointed out that Henne was a much lower pick.

This idea may be an anathema to some, and I can deal with some disagreement. But if I get a three year old level response with nothing but a bunch of screaming and kicking because the thought differs from daddy Ross Ireland's company line, then I'm going to treat the child like a child.




> Well, while statistics plays a roll in some regards to
> all sports, some more so than others, everyone
> that has intimate football knowledge knows that to
> base a players future and potential to become a
> great ball player by their statistics is
> borderline ignorant.
>

I'm not arguing this. It is very difficult to judge QB intangibles between college and the pros, and even the best GMs get this wrong. For fans to sit here and claim they have some innate knowledge of a QBs intangibles prior to the NFL - without even knowing that player well personally - is both ignorant and arrogant.

If you talk to any Michigan fan, they will have told you that Henne had that fire and the leadership quality in college. Heck, the great Jim Mandich was favorably comparing Henne's leadership to Greise when we drafted Henne. For some reason this didn't translate to the pros.

And I don't remember hearing a lot of "Henne doesn't have the intangibles" comments when we drafted him. That came after we put him on the field.


> Anyone that watched the games that Chad Henne
> played in knows that his statistical game wasn't
> why he isn't in a Dolphin uniform right now. Chad
> had many things going for him from a physical
> perspective. I think he had enough going into the
> league to make it. But....
>
> He lacked passion. He lacked drive to become a
> great. He wasn't hungry for it. He lacked
> leadership skills to get his team in line behind
> him to make a run at anything. No one on the team
> believed in Chad Henne except the coaching staff
> that placed him there, and in the latter portion
> of the Chad Henne show even that fizzled.
>


Certainly, as a Dolphin Henne lacked that leadership quality. But as a Wolverine he didn't. This is not anomalous amongst NFL QBs, and is what separates wheat from the chaff in the pro game.

However, it is very hard to gauge this coming out of college. And we are essentially have the same guy making that call in Tannehill as we had in Henne - only this time Ireland doesn't have a man with 40 years of professional football experience sitting next to him (Remember that Parcells said very early that Henne didn't have "it". I don't think Ireland knows what he is doing.

Right now Ireland picked a guy who has all the same risks as Henne, and (statistically) the same potential. But he picked this guy with a TOP TEN PICK. That is why I'm bent out of shape.

Honestly, I would have praised it if it were the second round, because that is where you pick risk QBs with interesting potential.



> I will never forget the look in Henne's eyes in
> his post game interviews after wins and losses.
> His demeanor. His lack of feeling in his voice.
> The man was like an uncaring robot that was
> playing to pay off his boat mortgage.
>

Henne sucked as a Dolphin.


> DK, you spoke of how the analysts all said RT was
> a reach at 8. I will grant you that he was.

That is why I'm bent.


> Analyst also say that RT has an amazing skill set
> for his position, he just needs polish and
> direction. But I will also counter your statement
> by saying that Miami, before needing anything
> else, needed a QB. And they needed the best
> available, not the best value at X spot. That is
> why I agree with the choice to grab RT. He was the
> best available QB when it was our turn. Waiting
> another year isn't an option for this regime
> anymore.
>

I think this is where I disagree with some people. I'm not in the QB at all cost camp. If I had the first or second pick I would have gone QB. If I had a lower half first, I would have gone QB. But, in my mind, with a top ten pick, blue chip trumps project QB.

We seem agree that Tannehill is far from blue chip. So this is a philosophical disagreement on the value of picking a QB, and impossible to sort out with stats. But In the past 10 years, I've seen teams win it many ways: some with first round QBs, some with walk on grocery store clerks as QBs, some with pure defense.

I get that some don't see thing my way, but I thank you for at least being respectful.


> They had to take the chance. I for one am glad and
> feel they should have been acting with this kind
> of attitude since day 1. BP, while helping turn
> our shitshow around when he came in, installed an
> old philosophy that set Miami back draft wise 5-6
> years. I believe that's coming to an end.
>
> RT will be succesful if he brings those skillsets
> to the table along with the things Henne could, or
> would, not. Drive, passion, discipline, and
> attitude. Putting those things together will get
> Miami a top tier QB for 10+ years.
>

I hope Tannehill becomes great and Ireland gets fired.


> Now if I could only find some posts of yours where
> you say something hopeful or positive about
> anything besides the backside and cleavage of RT's
> wife.......

LOL! I did reply a few positive lines about the `72 team



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/28/2012 09:12AM by DolfanKing.

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> DolfanKing Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > ChyrenB Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > DK, why did you wait until AFTER we made our
> > pick
> > > to express your opinion about who we should
> > draft?
> >
> > Because I don't like to make assumptions and
> live
> > in a fantasy world. I could sit around all day
> > and jabber and argue about who should be
> picked,
> > and it won't make any difference on draft day.
>
> >
> > Reality is that the front office has screwed up
> > another draft. I'm expression my opinion on
> the
> > reality of the situation not a fantasy of what
> the
> > team "should" do.
>
> RESPONSE: You got it backwards, buddy. Yes,
> indeed the chances are SLIM AS HELL that anything
> we say here will make a "difference on draft
> day."
>
> But I'll tell you what...........as slim as those
> chances are....... they are A LOT BETTER than are
> the chances of changing the pick after it's been
> made.
>
> What do you expect?

I'm expecting to accept what I can't change, the courage to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference.

Do you really think that I think I could have made a change at any time with my rants? No, I'm not crazy, just venting. I'm just pissed because the second floor is clueless.

You know what, I'll retract the troll statement. At least for now, pending some future outburst that requires replacement of the title.

You seem like an educated guy. I do understand your need for at least a small order of respect. I'd like to think that the regulars on this board, given a sample that say we are dealing with an individual who isn't a moron, will at least post in response with an absence of disrespect.

Please understand that like all chat boards on the web, this boards regulars have dealt with some seriously persistent trollers, some of which are still here. We have a knee jerk reaction to defend this turf. It's our home, it is our sanctuary of football.

I'm in favor of the RT1 pick. Some weeks ago I posted here was in favor of getting the man. The thing is we play the Jaguars on week 15. Just guess who will be the starting QB by then when we meet. Write it down. I feel the other one is gonna have its name changed to Glaine Blabbert, when the coaches truly work Chad's arm.

Ben Volin is a tone deaf blind man then. I see no comparisons in that area to Henne. Sounds like a tweet meant to get RT's.

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ben Volin tweet-
> Sentiment shared by many media people this
> weekend-- Tannehill's look and demeanor reminds us
> alot of Henne..Hopefully he can play better...
>
> lol

It is nearly impossible to tell from "look and demeanor" how a QB will turn out.

Really, the only reliable indicator is on field achievements. Tannehill's stats put him in the area of Henne - though Henne did win a bowl game and was named Senior Bowl MVP.

I agree, hopefully Tannehill can play better.

i just thought it was a funny, that was the media's sentiment...

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> i just thought it was a funny, that was the
> media's sentiment...

The media is filled with trolls, liars, and Jet fans? Maybe Aqua and Orange was right....

Aqua&Orange Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I never called you a Jet fan.

Looks like you just got generalize into the same group of posters that are calling me names, and distorting my words just because they disagree about a draft pick.

Don't expect an apology.